Powercity warranty, refunds, returns?

FamousBelgian

A few days ago I bought something in Powercity and on the website and on the receipt it was clearly stated that there was a one year warranty. What sort of loophole are they using to ignore the EU-mandated two year guarantee?

It turned out that the item (a microwave oven for e109) was not as I reasonably expected (the glass on the door was opaque, unlike any other oven I've ever seen, and could be dangerous) so I brought it back and exchanged it for another oven of a lower spec and a slightly higher price. I didn't get the feeling that a refund would be entertained and i was just happy to get out of there with something satisfactory.

Question is: is it a risk buying something in Powercity as opposed to Argos or Currys as regards returns and refunds whether for a defect or a simple change of mind?

whiterebel

<SNIP>

There is no 2 year EU warranty in Ireland. It was decided that we offer better protection with the Sale of Goods Act. You’re not covered for anything with a change of mind, they don’t have to entertain it.

davo10

Another shopper who is ignorant of their rights I'm afraid, fair play to Powecity for exchanging it, good customer service, they could have told the op to take a hike.

Xterminator

The warranty is in addition to your consumer rights. that way you can use either for convenience.

For example when my iphone broke it was FAR easier to use apples customer care, and have phone repaired (swopped for factory refurb) using the manufacturer warranty.

I could have chosen to go back to the retailer and used my rights under the sake of goods and supply act. under the sale of goods and supply act they could have offered me one of the 3 r's. repair/replace/refund. you not automatically entitled to a refund.

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

Another shopper who is ignorant of their rights I'm afraid, fair play to Powecity for exchanging it, good customer service, they could have told the op to take a hike.

Yes, I'm ignorant of my rights; that's why i asked here. I don't live in Ireland so this was new to me. I returned something that didn't meet reasonable expectations but I would be at a huge disadvantage trying to argue that point in Powercity. I then bought a more expensive item so there clearly was no question of bad faith on my part but I felt like I was trying to cheat them. When I opened the item I took away I saw it was clearly repackaged (although unused) and there was some cosmetic damage, probably as a result of some incident in transit that caused it to be opened. I probably won't be going back in a hurry.

As for suggesting me to take a hike: do you defend selling a microwave oven with an opaque door? Do I need to say upfront I am buying this a an elderly relative? It's a reasonable expectation that the glass on the oven door has been properly made.

FamousBelgian

whiterebel wrote: »

There is no 2 year EU warranty in Ireland. It was decided that we offer better protection with the Sale of Goods Act. You’re not covered for anything with a change of mind, they don’t have to entertain it.

I was checking https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm so if that doesn't apply in Ireland then I am truly surprised how that can be.

Did you not look at it before buying? I remember I think that Powers City have all their boxed utensils with one open on display. Not sure what the age of one of your relatives has to do with a warranty.

davo10

FamousBelgian wrote: »

Yes, I'm ignorant of my rights; that's why i asked here. I don't live in Ireland so this was new to me. I returned something that didn't meet reasonable expectations but I would be at a huge disadvantage trying to argue that point in Powercity. I then bought a more expensive item so there clearly was no question of bad faith on my part but I felt like I was trying to cheat them. When I opened the item I took away I saw it was clearly repackaged (although unused) and there was some cosmetic damage, probably as a result of some incident in transit that caused it to be opened. I probably won't be going back in a hurry.

As for suggesting me to take a hike: do you defend selling a microwave oven with an opaque door? Do I need to say upfront I am buying this a an elderly relative? It's a reasonable expectation that the glass on the oven door has been properly made.

If the item was as described and not defective, then your "reasonable expectations" are unreasonable. What makes you think the door was not properly made?

Xterminator

your consumer rights dont cover change of mind.

if they exchanged it for you, then that was pure goodwill on their part.

I bet they hoped it would be reciprocated.

FamousBelgian

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you not look at it before buying? I remember I think that Powers City have all their boxed utensils with one open on display. Not sure what the age of one of your relatives has to do with a warranty.

No, it wasn't on display. And if it were then it would not be plugged in. I mean, who test drives a microwave oven in the store to see if the glass door is not opaque?

Warranty is relevant because it covers reasonable expectations. It is reasonable to expect that a given microwave oven has a non-opaque door. An elderly person could forget exactly what they put in there 8 minutes earlier and open the door to be knocked off balance by a torrent of steam. Or smoke, or boiling water. Is it important? I just wanted an oven with a proper glass door. Why should I accept something inferior especially if there is a slightly increased risk of accident?

So I returned the thing, chose a lower spec model that *was* on display and found it to have been slightly damaged in transit but with a properly made door. No biggie. I probably won't go there again.

FamousBelgian

Xterminator wrote: »

your consumer rights dont cover change of mind.

if they exchanged it for you, then that was pure goodwill on their part.

I bet they hoped it would be reciprocated.

But consumer rights *do* cover reasonable expectations and a change of mind guarantee is the only reassurance the customer has that they will not be at a huge disadvantage. I wouldn't use the term goodwill in relation to anything to do with this incident. To start with i thought I was being patriotic going to an Irish-owned company first...

amcalester

What's the significance of the opaque, or not, door?

FamousBelgian

amcalester wrote: »

What's the significance of the opaque, or not, door?

See #10

Turns out the thing was made by Vestel, not Sharp.

Anyway, I was only asking to find out how Powercity compares to, eg, Argos or Currys in this sort of situation in Ireland given that EU law does not seem to apply.

Fiery mutant

Reasonable expectations would not cover the colour of something. Reasonable expectations would cover the fact that it actually worked, or had a handle or button to open the door.

You still haven’t clarified why you think the glass was faulty?

davo10

The item must be as described and of merchantable quality, is there are requirement for a door to be made of clear glass?

Op, just because you think the door should have clear glass does not mean it should reasonably be expected to have clear glass. This is simply a case of you not buying an item which is suitable for the recipient, you changed your mind after buying it and Powercity were good enough to replace it for you. You should be on here commending them for good customer service.

FamousBelgian

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Reasonable expectations would not cover the colour of something. Reasonable expectations would cover the fact that it actually worked, or had a handle or button to open the door.

You still haven’t clarified why you think the glass was faulty?

This is not about colour. Every microwave oven I've ever seen has had a non-opaque door, presumably for reasons of safety. This oven had a glass door but it was so heavily tinted or smoked that you couldn't see anything of what was happening when it worked. If you squinted you could just barely make out the light so that was indeed working. There was no extra film on it apart from the usual microwave protection on the inside. Reasonable expectations go beyond mere function. In this case the vendor/maker would have to explain why my oven was the only one in the whole store with an opaque glass door.

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

The item must be as described and of merchantable quality, is there are requirement for a door to be made of clear glass?

Op, just because you think the door should have clear glass does not mean it should reasonably be expected to have clear glass. This is simply a case of you not buying an item which is suitable for the recipient, you changed your mind after buying it and Powercity were good enough to replace it for you. You should be on here commending them for good customer service.

Every other oven in the store, including the same model in a smaller size, had a glass door and they looked pretty non-opaque to me. i'd be interested if you can explain why I should settle for what I got first. When I got home I looked up the user manual to see if I missed something. Then I saw the thing was made by Vestel. Most likely I got a bad one and I'd have had to convince the retailer to open and test more of the same. Instead I bought one that appears to have been made to a higher standard by some other contract manufacturer.

TerrorFirmer

Sounds like there was nothing wrong with the microwave, and you just didn't like it, but Power City offered you great customer service. I don't see the issue at all.

My microwave at home (cheap €60 model), and the one at my parents home (expensive model), both have tinted glass that makes it more difficult to see what's inside. Never really occurred to me until this thread.

FamousBelgian

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Sounds like there was nothing wrong with the microwave, and you just didn't like it, but Power City offered you great customer service. I don't see the issue at all.

My microwave at home (cheap €60 model), and the one at my parents home (expensive model), both have tinted glass that makes it more difficult to see what's inside. Never really occurred to me until this thread.

I know that's what it sounds like but I thought the light inside was broken until I closed curtains and pressed my nose against the door and squinted. Could just barely see the light not anything else like something about to boil over. Hopefully the next person to get it is German or Dutch and they return to Powercity in a fiery rage. I can't believe I'm the only person who would notice this

Fiery mutant

FamousBelgian wrote: »

Reasonable expectations go beyond mere function.

I think you should do some reading up on what the rights and expectations of purchase are in Ireland op.

And microwaves are made so you can just close the door and let it do it’s thing. If you need to be standing by the microwave watching it through the glass, i’d Suggest you stick to cooking on the stove.

FamousBelgian

Fiery mutant wrote: »

I think you should do some reading up on what the rights and expectations of purchase are in Ireland op.

I did and couldn't find any answers. That's why I asked here.

Fiery mutant wrote: »

And microwaves are made so you can just close the door and let it do it’s thing. If you need to be standing by the microwave watching it through the glass, i’d Suggest you stick to cooking on the stove.

I'll pass on the message to my 85 year old father. If you are so easily satisfied and shoddy products don't bother you then why are you giving me consumer advice? I don't live in Ireland and I had a reasonable question about non-applicability of an EU law.

L1011

There is nothing inherently "shoddy" about opaque glass. Or that it isn't "properly made" - it's a design choice, that is all.

You got a change of mind return, nothing else. That is generally a sign of good customer service and the rest is your misunderstanding of regulations and expectations.

davo10

FamousBelgian wrote: »

i'd be interested if you can explain why I should settle for what I got first..

The answer to that is very simple, it isn't defective and it's the one you picked, then paid for.

What you are describing is buyers remorse, you are sorry you bought that particular model.

Owryan

My microwave's glass is dark, not see through. It also has a big digital interface that tell me it is one, how long it has left and a light when it's done.

Never once considered that the glass being that way meant it was defective. Must pack it up and bring it back.

davo10

Just looking at Powercity website, it is very obvious that many of the microwaves have dark glass doors.

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

Just looking at Powercity website, it is very obvious that many of the microwaves have dark glass doors.

There's a difference between dark and opaque.

FamousBelgian

L1011 wrote: »

There is nothing inherently "shoddy" about opaque glass. Or that it isn't "properly made" - it's a design choice, that is all.

You got a change of mind return, nothing else. That is generally a sign of good customer service and the rest is your misunderstanding of regulations and expectations.

I guess you know for a fact that all units of that model in that size have opaque glass doors as a design feature but in other sizes of that model the glass is sufficiently transparent to see the oven contents like in every other microwave oven I've ever seen.

I've checked the user manual and the troubleshooting section refers to observing the interior light during cooking. I guess the designers missed that bit when they decided to make the door opaque for my exact unit and nobody else's.

Sorry mod for the sarcasm but I didn't expect such a reaction from everyone for what I thought was a simple question. Of course I misunderstand the regulations but I couldn't find out what my rights in Ireland are exactly. I didn't get a change of mind return: I phoned Powercity and explained the issue and they didn't dispute that there could be a problem with that unit. They suggested an exchange but when I went to the store I got the feeling that I was getting something for free even though I paid extra for a different item (no way was I buying another potentially problematic item). The item I ended up with had cosmetic damage but I took that as the cost of a change of mind (as they saw it) in Powercity.

davo10

FamousBelgian wrote: »

There's a difference between dark and opaque.

Irrespective, if it is as described, the mistake was yours in buying it.

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

Irrespective, if it is as described, the mistake was yours in buying it.

The whole point of the thread was that there might just be some room for interpretation about what was described. However the user manual makes it clear that the door glass should not be opaque. If the vendor does not agree then I have to fall back on a change of mind right. That was the question but maybe you can tell me which model you saw that had an opaque door as described which I made the mistake of buying.

davo10

FamousBelgian wrote: »

The whole point of the thread was that there might just be some room for interpretation about what was described. However the user manual makes it clear that the door glass should not be opaque. If the vendor does not agree then I have to fall back on a change of mind right. That was the question but maybe you can tell me which model you saw that had an opaque door as described which I made the mistake of buying.

Change of mind isn't a "right" it is a courtesy provided by the retailer. You say "opaque", others say dark glass. Either way doesn't mean the item is defective. Unless there is a requirement that the glass is clear, you bought an item which didn't suit your requirements, that most certainly does not mean it is would not suit someone else. You have decided to criticise a retailer for your mistake even though they were good enough to accommodate your change of mind.

You might post a photo of the manual which says it should not be opaque and a link to the particular microwave.

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

Change of mind isn't a "right" it is a courtesy provided by the retailer. You say "opaque", others say dark glass. Either way doesn't mean the item is defective. Unless there is a requirement that the glass is clear, you bought an item which didn't suit your requirements, that most certainly does not mean it is would not suit someone else. You have decided to criticise a retailer for your mistake even though they were good enough to accommodate your change of mind.

Did I criticise the retailer? No, I asked here how they compared to other retailers for an exchange or refund and I described the situation. Change of mind is indeed a right in some countries; I asked here if there was something similar in Ireland. The fact that I bought something which had non-opaque glass on the shelf in one size but opaque glass in another size would probably count as buying sight-unseen and therefore entitled to a change of mind where I live. Never mind that the damned thing was clearly defective if the user manual refers to observing through the glass door. I mean, how do you see arcing if the door glass is opaque? If an item is returned with damage due to arcing will the shop accept it because the door was opaque?

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

You might post a photo of the manual which says it should not be opaque and a link to the particular microwave.

Where did I say that the manual says the door should not be opaque? What sort of manual would say that? I said that the troubleshooting section says to check if the light is on during cooking. That was not possible with the unit I got. It also warns to check for arcing. Also not possible.

davo10

FamousBelgian wrote: »

. However the user manual makes it clear that the door glass should not be opaque..

There?

Fiery mutant

FamousBelgian wrote: »

However the user manual makes it clear that the door glass should not be opaque.

FamousBelgian wrote: »

Where did I say that the manual says the door should not be opaque? What sort of manual would say that? .

Is this a piss take?

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

There?

So how would I observe the light during cooking if the door was opaque?

FamousBelgian

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Is this a piss take?

Would a user manual say something like 'the door should be opaque'? Did you seriously think that I said that? Did you?

The manual says: Does the oven lamp come on when it is cooking?

Does that suggest to you that an opaque door is likely to be fitted to the unit?

davo10

FamousBelgian wrote: »

So how would I observe the light during cooking if the door was opaque?

The light is on, but there is nobody home.

iamwhoiam

I bought a microwave from Power City a few years ago . We got home and the baby bottle steriliser wouldn't fit in it . I went back and explained my dilemma and they couldn't have been more helpful
At no stage did I think it my right as I hadn't specified it was for the steriliser
They suggested I physically bring the steriliser with me and try it in any microwave I fancy
They went out of their way to be accomadating but maybe because I was well aware that it was not their fault but mine

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

The light is on, but there is nobody home.

You're the one that doesn't understand the difference between dark and opaque, and 'says' and 'makes it clear'.

FamousBelgian

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I bought a microwave from Power City a few years ago . We got home and the baby bottle steriliser wouldn't fit in it . I went back and explained my dilemma and they couldn't have been more helpful
At no stage did I think it my right as I hadn't specified it was for the steriliser
They suggested I physically bring the steriliser with me and try it in any microwave I fancy
They went out of their way to be accomadating but maybe because I was well aware that it was not their fault but mine

Fine, I didn't criticise Powercity as a retailer. Just the peculiar situation I was in regards change of mind .vs. defect and the non-applicability of an EU law in IRL.

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

The light is on, but there is nobody home.

How can you tell if the windows are opaque?

davo10

FamousBelgian wrote: »

Fine, I didn't criticise Powercity as a retailer. Just the peculiar situation I was in regards change of mind .vs. defect and the non-applicability of an EU law in IRL.

But there is no EU law that entitles you to your money back for change of mind. You said you "brought it back". Perhaps you are confusing distance selling with buying it in a shop.

Owryan

I'm starting to think it was not the microwave that was defective 🙄🙄

iamwhoiam

FamousBelgian wrote: »

Fine, I didn't criticise Powercity as a retailer. Just the peculiar situation I was in regards change of mind .vs. defect and the non-applicability of an EU law in IRL.

My point was they were well within their rights not to replace my microwave .

FamousBelgian

davo10 wrote: »

But there is no EU law that entitles you to your money back for change of mind. You said you "brought it back". Perhaps you are confusing distance selling with buying it in a shop.

The EU law was about the 2 year warranty. It doesn't seem to apply in Ireland.

The change of mind is indeed related to distance selling and if I had bought something that was not displayed in store I would be trying to use that to support a claim. Since Argos seems to have such a policy in IRL I was wondering how that was with other retailers. In Holland many retailers offer change of mind just to compete with online sellers.

Owryan

FamousBelgian wrote: »

The EU law was about the 2 year warranty. It doesn't seem to apply in Ireland.

The change of mind is indeed related to distance selling and if I had bought something that was not displayed in store I would be trying to use that to support a claim. Since Argos seems to have such a policy in IRL I was wondering how that was with other retailers. In Holland many retailers offer change of mind just to compete with online sellers.

Irish law is deemed to offer better protection than EU law, hence why it's not inacted here.

Some companies will exchange or refund in cases of change of mind but it is only a goodwill gesture.

This is not holland.

At the end of the day, the store allowed you to get a different microwave so all worked out. As to whether an opaque window is "defective" is a different matter. The screen on mine is and it works fine.

fritzelly

Weird thread - says s/he doesn't know the law then argues with everyone responding quoting some "made up" law about expectations of what was expected from a fully functioning microwave
Don't think I've ever in my life put something in a microwave and watched it intently for 10 minutes to make sure it's not overcooking - then again I read the instructions about how long to cook it...

Maybe before buying anything again you should check online reviews
Returning anything you opened and tried and didn't like is totally at the discretion of the retailer - up to you to do due diligence if the appliance meets your demands

davo10

FamousBelgian wrote: »

The EU law was about the 2 year warranty. It doesn't seem to apply in Ireland.

The change of mind is indeed related to distance selling and if I had bought something that was not displayed in store I would be trying to use that to support a claim. Since Argos seems to have such a policy in IRL I was wondering how that was with other retailers. In Holland many retailers offer change of mind just to compete with online sellers.

"Offer" is different to "right", you were offered a change of mind by Powercity, same as in Holland.

Distance selling relates to items bought on line, not bought in a shop. Your " claim" would fail on that very obvious (to everyone) technically.

I really feel for retail staff and businesses having to deal with this crap.

FamousBelgian

Owryan wrote: »

Irish law is deemed to offer better protection than EU law, hence why it's not inacted here.

Some companies will exchange or refund in cases of change of mind but it is only a goodwill gesture.

This is not holland.

At the end of the day, the store allowed you to get a different microwave so all worked out. As to whether an opaque window is "defective" is a different matter. The screen on mine is and it works fine.

This is not holland. That's apparent from the moment the plane touches down.:)

That's why I was asking because I had assumed this was the same everywhere now. The store did indeed let me choose something else but I think only because I had already called their central number. The folks in the store were suspicious and then they gave me something which I suspect they knew had cosmetic damage.

FamousBelgian

fritzelly wrote: »

Weird thread - says s/he doesn't know the law then argues with everyone responding quoting some "made up" law about expectations of what was expected from a fully functioning microwave
Don't think I've ever in my life put something in a microwave and watched it intently for 10 minutes to make sure it's not overcooking - then again I read the instructions about how long to cook it...

Maybe before buying anything again you should check online reviews
Returning anything you opened and tried and didn't like is totally at the discretion of the retailer - up to you to do due diligence if the appliance meets your demands

What 'made up' law was I arguing about? EU law?

If you've never peered through the door of a microwave oven to check on things, or had an elderly relative who wants to do that, then good for you.
I did check online reviews and the user manual and I did my due diligence before purchase. Having a non-opaque door is not a peculiar demand of mine; there might be a reason every oven has that (except for a few sold only in Ireland).

fritzelly

FamousBelgian wrote: »

So I returned the thing, chose a lower spec model that *was* on display and found it to have been slightly damaged in transit but with a properly made door. No biggie. I probably won't go there again.

FamousBelgian wrote: »

The folks in the store were suspicious and then they gave me something which I suspect they knew had cosmetic damage

Make your mind up about what it is you bought...buy anything that was on display and it's buyer beware and "comes as is" - bumps, scratches and all, ffs it was on display

Very petty of you to now avoid the store because of something you personally didn't like about a product