Buying a House: Asking price online was not the real price

Krombopulos Michael

So I am dealing with a specific estate agent, and they seem to have a habit of advertising a property for a specific asking price.

We made an offer under, then of the asking price of a property, to be eventually told the owners actually wanted more than 15k more from the outset, but the estate agent listed it lower to garner interest.

Is this normal practice as it's infuriating to find a property that you like, offer asking to then be rejected and told to fork out thousands more.

Ineski

I have made similar experience, plenty of times!!
House was advertised with a certain amount but it turned out the vendor is actually not willing to sell under about asking price + 10-15k.

MAJJ

Price lower, multiple parties interested, hopefully leads to bidding war. It's a common selling approach for houses

davo10

Advertised price is a guide, nothing more. The actual price is the highest price a buyer is willing to pay for it.

TheShow

Welcome to Greedy Ireland.

lawred2

Would have thought that was a fairly routine practice. Not something I'd have been surprised or upset about.

Krombopulos Michael

Well we offered a slight increase over asking. From what I gather, there is no other offers on the house, but if this is not successful, I will happily go elsewhere.

Sleeper12

Krombopulos Michael wrote:

Is this normal practice as it's infuriating to find a property that you like, offer asking to then be rejected and told to fork out thousands more.

This is very normal. Very few properties sell for the original asking price.

Krombopulos Michael

I have never bought a house before so this is a new experience for me.

Alanstrainor

Saw this all the time. I mean you can't blame the estate agent trying to get a buzz about a property. The tactic was putting a house up under 400K where the real value was a good amount higher. Everyone with alerts on daft gets a ping at a property under their max value, meaning the open viewing was full of people.

I went to one viewing in north Dublin for a 3 bed house, up for 395 online and it ended up selling for 495. Both viewings were heaving with people. Crazy, but the estate agent certainly did their job in selling.

davo10

TheShow wrote: »

Welcome to Greedy Ireland.

Remember that when you sell a property. I'm sure you would refuse a bid of €20k above asking if a bidder was willing to pay it.

TheShow

davo10 wrote: »

Remember that when you sell a property. I'm sure you would refuse a bid of €20k above asking if a bidder was willing to pay it.

of course,
the way the market operates is wrong though.
a house is valued by a professional valuer and the price should not be a penny more than that.

diggerdigger

TheShow wrote: »

of course,
the way the market operates is wrong though.
a house is valued by a professional valuer and the price should not be a penny more than that.

Because professional valuers are infallible. Good one. :eek:

Claw Hammer

TheShow wrote: »

of course,
the way the market operates is wrong though.
a house is valued by a professional valuer and the price should not be a penny more than that.

You are not buying goods in a supermarket. There was a time when houses asked more than they expected to achieve. Intending buyers had to try and negotiate the price down. At the end of the day, it is a matter for each buyer to decide how much they're willing to pay and then bid up to that price.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Krombopulos Michael wrote: »

So I am dealing with a specific estate agent, and they seem to have a habit of advertising a property for a specific asking price.

We made an offer under, then of the asking price of a property, to be eventually told the owners actually wanted more than 15k more from the outset, but the estate agent listed it lower to garner interest.

Is this normal practice as it's infuriating to find a property that you like, offer asking to then be rejected and told to fork out thousands more.

You give out about the owners wanting more than the asking price, yet you offer less than the asking price? :pac:

BronsonTB

OP - Yes this seems to be normal practice to me by EA. The idea behind it, is to gather interest in the hope it will drive the offers up, hoping to reach the sellers real price. Very misleading for buyers in my opinion.

lawred2

TheShow wrote: »

of course,
the way the market operates is wrong though.
a house is valued by a professional valuer and the price should not be a penny more than that.

lol

That is a rather fundamental misunderstanding of how any 'market' operates.

A 'professional' valuer is just giving an opinion as to possible market price not setting a fixed price.

Sleeper12

TheShow wrote:

of course, the way the market operates is wrong though. a house is valued by a professional valuer and the price should not be a penny more than that.

Maybe it works that way in communist Russia but in the rest of the world the market dictates the price.

I assume you don't have a problem with property that sells below the asking price?

If it's OK for someone to try negotiate the price then it has to be OK for someone to negotiate the price up

handlemaster

TheShow wrote: »

davo10 wrote: »

Remember that when you sell a property. I'm sure you would refuse a bid of €20k above asking if a bidder was willing to pay it.

of course,
the way the market operates is wrong though.
a house is valued by a professional valuer and the price should not be a penny more than that.

Why ? Who.says that ?

Frilly Knickers

You can download the entirety of the property price register if you want (an ever so slightly out of date) idea of what a house is worth. You can also find the (cached) ads showing what the asking prices were.

Like others, I'm surprised OP is surprised.

I tracked asking versus selling prices on about 100 houses in the part of Dublin I was interested in - on average houses went 7% over asking

That varied greatly when you broke it down by agent. The ones you'd expect to be reputable often sold at or just over asking. The ones you know are chancers consistently sell for 12% or even 15% over asking - indicating their asking price was a total joke.

I suggest tracking asking versus selling by agent. At least then you're armed with knowledge

davo10

TheShow wrote: »

of course,
the way the market operates is wrong though.
a house is valued by a professional valuer and the price should not be a penny more than that.

No two properties are the same, so the valuer's opinion would be subjective rather than objective. You are effectively saying that you are willing to be bound by the opinion of another as to what value should be assigned to your property. On an open market your property could be worth €500k, but a valuer might deem it worth €300k based on previous selling prices of similar but not identical properties. I'm not sure many other people would be willing to forego a €200k sum for the benefit of the buyer.

Krombopulos Michael

Kara Magnificent Lamp wrote: »

You give out about the owners wanting more than the asking price, yet you offer less than the asking price? :pac:

I offered 5k less as there is work to do on the property that was not in the pictures with the site and discussing with the EA, she didnt go to the owner with the lesser offer, we agreed to just go with asking.

Krombopulos Michael

Frilly Knickers wrote: »

You can download the entirety of the property price register if you want (an ever so slightly out of date) idea of what a house is worth. You can also find the (cached) ads showing what the asking prices were.

Like others, I'm surprised OP is surprised.

I tracked asking versus selling prices on about 100 houses in the part of Dublin I was interested in - on average houses went 7% over asking

That varied greatly when you broke it down by agent. The ones you'd expect to be reputable often sold at or just over asking. The ones you know are chancers consistently sell for 12% or even 15% over asking - indicating their asking price was a total joke.

I suggest tracking asking versus selling by agent. At least then you're armed with knowledge

Like I said, its all new to me. The most expensive thing I bought before this was a car which you can always haggle down.

I like the idea about tracking Asking Vs Selling by agent. I'll have to do just that.

davo10

Frilly Knickers wrote: »

The ones you know are chancers consistently sell for 12% or even 15% over asking - indicating their asking price was a total joke.

I find that line strange.

How does an EA know for certain how much bidders are willing to pay in advance of a house being advertised, surely that depends on the bidders?

Placing a property on the market at a price lower than it might be worth is a tried and trusted way of peaking potential buyers interest in it. The ideal scenario for a seller is for at least two bidders to try and outbid each other, the EA works for the seller so the EA can hardly be accused of being a "chancer" if they achieve maximum value for their client.

Lastly, as a seller, and the person paying the EA, you want that property to go as far above asking as possible. I doubt a seller ever complained that an EA valued their property too low, after the sale closes 15% above asking, I'd say they thank the EA for doing a good job.

TallGlass

Kara Magnificent Lamp wrote: »

You give out about the owners wanting more than the asking price, yet you offer less than the asking price? :pac:

Adverts.ie :pac:

amcalester

Krombopulos Michael wrote: »

Like I said, its all new to me. The most expensive thing I bought before this was a car which you can always haggle down.

I like the idea about tracking Asking Vs Selling by agent. I'll have to do just that.

Too many variables to make that worth while (not to mention the accuracy of the data i.e. selling price).

Agents might have different selling strategies for different houses.

1 house the owner might want a quick sale and so may accept a lower price, others might only sell if a certain price is achieved and is happy to wait for that to happen so may advertise at exactly that price.

At the end of the day, even if you offer a price the seller is happy with, if someone offers higher the seller will accept that price.

How will you account for that?

dk1982

Just sold my house in the last few weeks in D12. estate agent valued it at 335/340k. He suggested we'd put it up at 310k to get the interest going. Sold for 355k. Job done!

filbert the fox

There was a terrible crash involving a minibus with a driver, 2 Hitler youth supporters and 2 Estate Agents. Five people died - 3 with a perfect right to live .......and 2 Estate Agents.:rolleyes:

granddesigner

Krombopulos Michael wrote: »

So I am dealing with a specific estate agent, and they seem to have a habit of advertising a property for a specific asking price.

We made an offer under, then of the asking price of a property, to be eventually told the owners actually wanted more than 15k more from the outset, but the estate agent listed it lower to garner interest.

Is this normal practice as it's infuriating to find a property that you like, offer asking to then be rejected and told to fork out thousands more.

Happens with almost all sales now. I have recently went after a property, advertised at €150k, I new it was undervalued at that, went in with bidding at €130k.. Within two weeks it had reached €170k, I nipped in with €175k and now sale agreed. I believe the market value was 170k so i have given 5k more because the house meets my needs.

"A property is worth what a person is willing to pay"

belfe

Wait for 1 month and offer 5k less, then another month and offer 10k less. If the owner didn't sell the property will have the feeling of devaluation and may accept your last offer.

Frilly Knickers

davo10 wrote: »

I find that line strange.

How does an EA know for certain how much bidders are willing to pay in advance of a house being advertised, surely that depends on the bidders?

Placing a property on the market at a price lower than it might be worth is a tried and trusted way of peaking potential buyers interest in it. The ideal scenario for a seller is for at least two bidders to try and outbid each other, the EA works for the seller so the EA can hardly be accused of being a "chancer" if they achieve maximum value for their client.

Lastly, as a seller, and the person paying the EA, you want that property to go as far above asking as possible. I doubt a seller ever complained that an EA valued their property too low, after the sale closes 15% above asking, I'd say they thank the EA for doing a good job.

Groan.

Frilly Knickers

amcalester wrote: »

Too many variables to make that worth while (not to mention the accuracy of the data i.e. selling price).

Agents might have different selling strategies for different houses.

1 house the owner might want a quick sale and so may accept a lower price, others might only sell if a certain price is achieved and is happy to wait for that to happen so may advertise at exactly that price.

At the end of the day, even if you offer a price the seller is happy with, if someone offers higher the seller will accept that price.

How will you account for that?

How can arming yourself with knowledge about what houses in the area sell for or the average price over asking an EA gets be a bad thing?

The alternative in blindly guessing what you personally think a house is worth and then getting it wrong - and either not getting it or paying over the odds for it.

it's a finger in the air and the best information you/anyone has on houses prices and agents selling strategies. Both of which are relevant variables in a bidding strategy.

It's just an average guide, not Einsteins theory of relativity. Of course its worth doing. Suggest a better way to arm yourself with market knowledge.

amcalester

Frilly Knickers wrote: »

How can arming yourself with knowledge about what houses in the area sell for or the average price over asking an EA gets be a bad thing?

The alternative in blindly guessing what you personally think a house is worth and then getting it wrong - and either not getting it or paying over the odds for it.

it's a finger in the air and the best information you/anyone has on houses prices and agents selling strategies. Both of which are relevant variables in a bidding strategy.

It's just an average guide, not Einsteins theory of relativity. Of course its worth doing. Suggest a better way to arm yourself with market knowledge.

Where did I say information was a bad thing?

I questioned whether the exercise of tracking selling price v asking price by EA was worthwhile due to the large amount of variables and the inherent inaccuracy of the data.

At the end of the day what the OP (or any house purchaser) thinks the house is worth is the only thing that matters as that is the price it will sell at and all the tracking of asking v selling price will be useless if someone else values it higher than you.

ted1

Krombopulos Michael wrote: »

Kara Magnificent Lamp wrote: »

You give out about the owners wanting more than the asking price, yet you offer less than the asking price? :pac:

I offered 5k less as there is work to do on the property that was not in the pictures with the site and discussing with the EA, she didnt go to the owner with the lesser offer, we agreed to just go with asking.

Unless you are buying a new house always expect there to be work needed.

Frilly Knickers

amcalester wrote: »

Where did I say information was a bad thing?

I questioned whether the exercise of tracking selling price v asking price by EA was worthwhile due to the large amount of variables and the inherent inaccuracy of the data.

At the end of the day what the OP (or any house purchaser) thinks the house is worth is the only thing that matters as that is the price it will sell at and all the tracking of asking v selling price will be useless if someone else values it higher than you.

What inaccuracy though? Do you genuinely believe there is a statistically significant number of sale prices in the ppr where the sale price is wrong?

The agent and asking come from the ads. The ads also show the condition of the house at time of sale and explain things like why two houses on one road could go for vastly different amounts.

It's real life data. What 'you think a house is worth' is meaningless. Market factors influence what you can realistically buy followed by how much you are willing to compromise.

paulieeye

TheShow wrote: »

of course,
the way the market operates is wrong though.
a house is valued by a professional valuer and the price should not be a penny more than that.

:pac::pac:

amcalester

Frilly Knickers wrote: »

What inaccuracy though? Do you genuinely believe there is a statistically significant number of sale prices in the ppr where the sale price is wrong?

The agent and asking come from the ads. The ads also show the condition of the house at time of sale and explain things like why two houses on one road could go for vastly different amounts.

It's real life data. What 'you think a house is worth' is meaningless. Market factors influence what you can realistically buy followed by how much you are willing to compromise.

Well I can only go on my own experience and the PPR hasn't been very accurate, or timely in having the price published.

And with the current market any delay is going to be make the data inaccurate.

We obviously have differing opinions on whether this would be a worthwhile exercise so I'll leave it that.

Frilly Knickers

amcalester wrote: »

Well I can only go on my own experience and the PPR hasn't been very accurate, or timely in having the price published.

And with the current market any delay is going to be make the data inaccurate.

We obviously have differing opinions on whether this would be a worthwhile exercise so I'll leave it that.

There is a delay in when the price is published but it shows the exact sale date so you still know how long ago the sale was. That doesn't make it inaccurate, it makes it slightly delayed in being published.

You could apply average house price inflation if you really felt the need to adjust for a month or 2 delay in published data. That figure is also freely available online BTW.

'your experience' of the ppr having incorrect sale prices would need to be based on you having first hand knowledge of the real sale price then seeing a significantly different number in the register. It's not likely that's happened to you on more than maybe one instance (if any) , making your claim Anecdotal, not fact.

Market research is the best tool any buyer or vendor has and online resources of asking and sold prices is the best data we have, save having first hand knowledge of every sale in Ireland.

I'll leave it at that.

stimpson

One thing not mentioned is that the agent works for the vendor. If he doesn’t maximise the sale price then he’s not doing his job. Having said that, they have a legal obligation to present all offers to the vendor so if they didn’t do that then you have a point. However in this market I doubt anything is selling under the asking price.

davo10

Frilly Knickers wrote: »

What inaccuracy though? Do you genuinely believe there is a statistically significant number of sale prices in the ppr where the sale price is wrong?

The agent and asking come from the ads. The ads also show the condition of the house at time of sale and explain things like why two houses on one road could go for vastly different amounts.

It's real life data. What 'you think a house is worth' is meaningless. Market factors influence what you can realistically buy followed by how much you are willing to compromise.

Actually it isn't "real lite data" or even "real time data", it is historical data of a price paid in the past. While it may give a guide of previous sales, it gives no data on what it is worth today to another bidder.

I would think that what a buyer thinks it is worth is extremely important, in fact that consideration and ability to obtain finance are two of the most important factors when buying a home.

I suspect most buyers consider what they can afford to be the factor which most influences what they can realistically buy.

M.Cribben

stimpson wrote: »

One thing not mentioned is that the agent works for the vendor. If he doesn’t maximise the sale price then he’s not doing his job. Having said that, they have a legal obligation to present all offers to the vendor so if they didn’t do that then you have a point. However in this market I doubt anything is selling under the asking price.

Asking price is just an arbitrary figure the EA estimates based on recent sales of similar properties in the area. For example, I could ask a million for my house that's really worth 500k, then sell it for 500k (50% below asking price). The figure of a million has no bearing on the final sale price, or the value of the property.

That's why the PPR is so valuable as a source of truth.

denismc

The banks have certain criteria for valuing a property as they are not going to mortgage a property that is valued at twice its actual value.
So I don't think auctioneers can drag figures out of their arses .
Listing a property at below market value can backfire as bidding will start lower and it may not reach the target price, although this is unlikely these days as demand exceeds supply, people are getting into bidding wars like they were back in the boom days.

Frilly Knickers

davo10 wrote: »

Actually it isn't "real lite data" or even "real time data", it is historical data of a price paid in the past. While it may give a guide of previous sales, it gives no data on what it is worth today to another bidder.

I would think that what a buyer thinks it is worth is extremely important, in fact that consideration and ability to obtain finance are two of the most important factors when buying a home.

I suspect most buyers consider what they can afford to be the factor which most influences what they can realistically buy.

Again, groan.

It is 'real life data'. They aren't made up sales fgs.

What someone thinks a house is worth isn't really a gut feeling - a gut feeling is based first and foremost on market averages, historical sale prices, comparable properties in the area. There is a tiny amount of heart at the end, but mostly and overwhelmingly market factors determine what you 'feel' a house is worth. What else would it be based on?

What someone actually buys is based on what they can afford - again based on a price driven, on average, by the market.

Heart is a tiny part of a sale price not the determinant of the market.

davo10

Frilly Knickers wrote: »

Again, groan.

It is 'real life data'. They aren't made up sales fgs.

What someone thinks a house is worth isn't really a gut feeling - a gut feeling is based first and foremost on market averages, historical sale prices, comparable properties in the area. There is a tiny amount of heart at the end, but mostly and overwhelmingly market factors determine what you 'feel' a house is worth. What else would it be based on?

What someone actually buys is based on what they can afford - again based on a price driven, on average, by the market.

Heart is a tiny part of a sale price not the determinant of the market.

It's data, but historical data. Typically it takes months for prices to register on the site.

Again I'm going to have to disagree with you, most buyers invest emotionally in the house they bid on, they/we want it even though it may not be worth as much to someone as as what we pay for it. Most home owners "know" that this is the house for them, for some it is the "dream house", if that is not emotional/the heart ruling the head, I'm not sure what is.