Looking for buy a small holding in the west of Ireland: seeking advice

TomOnBoard

Just going back to tge question of the 35k that you have for building and amenities, which I be!ieve is very low, perhaps you might consider putting a used mobile home on the site (assuming you can get access) to get you started.

Soilse

would you not consider getting some experience working on a farm in Ireland first spend 6months woofing I have met lots of people who come over to Ireland for this it will give a proper idea of working life on a farm without too much spend

Say my name

Just on the weather side of things for Mayo.
I'm not a professional just an amateur enthusiast. But anyway. .. I wouldn't take all the past weather (last few decades) for Mayo as a certainty of future weather.

My amateur opinion is mayo is in for more severe winters than it's used to. There's been a taster of this and it has experienced this these last few winters.
There's a poster on boards here called mountainyman or maybe mountainy man.
He's in Sligo and on slightly high ground but he's been getting snow fall coming from the north and west in from the Atlantic these past few winters.
Snow from the Atlantic used to be a rarity but now it seems more normal.

In my totally amateur opinion it's because of a cooler Atlantic (reduced gulf stream) and that we are starting into a solar minimum period.
While past weather is a guide maybe past weather from 300 years ago might be more applicable.

James E M

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Just going back to tge question of the 35k that you have for building and amenities, which I be!ieve is very low, perhaps you might consider putting a used mobile home on the site (assuming you can get access) to get you started.

Estimating renovation costs is always very tricky. The most frustrating detail is the amenities as you cannot get a quite prior to planning permission. As far as I am aware you cannot even get a rough estimation, at least when it comes to esb. A major concern of mine is actually water as I do not know what the regulation will require from me. I am almost certain there is no current provision on site which would mean a septic tank but sometimes, depending on conditions on site, you are required to install a full drainage system. Currently that would brake my budget. It is particularly vexing as the site conditions present which dictate one system over another is probably bogus. In any case I would hope to have electricity, broadband and water to my dwelling although I'd forgo water if required as its the eventual plan anyway. I can speak at great length amount my renovation plans if anyone is interested and by no means are all details worked out but it seems slightly beyond the scope of what this threat was created to discuss. But yes if the site and derelict dwelling cost 35k then I would hope to be able to renovate the house to a liveable state for another 35k. I plan to do a lot of the work myself. In any case I don't think this derelict dwelling will be any more expensive than another derelict dwelling anywhere else in Ireland. The cost of renovations is a major motivation for spending only 35k on the site.

Soilse wrote: »

would you not consider getting some experience working on a farm in Ireland first spend 6months woofing I have met lots of people who come over to Ireland for this it will give a proper idea of working life on a farm without too much spend

Would certainly consider it.

Birdnuts

If your going for soft fruit, raspberries are the best in cool moist climates eg. the main British crop comes from Speyside in Scotland

RIGOLO

James , one of your comments sent off an alarm bell, you plan to do all the renovation work yourself . 
Again noble ambition , but where will you get the time and energy. Remember your also planning to take a raw acre of ground and turn it into a forest garden, thats almost a full time job , and now you plan on doing all the building work, again a full time job and get integrated into the community also are you planning on getting a job in IT .... if theres only one of you then you need to be looking at a 3-5 year plan. I dont mean to dis-hearten you . 
Gardening is enjoyable work but its hard work , especially on the scale your talking off, even for a mid-twenties. 
The way I see it (based somewhat on experience) is theres a few ways of living this experience, either go all in , go the full hippie, crusty , get your holding, do all the manual work, spend your 35k on basic renovations, car, gardening tools, polytunnel etc , walk away from IT for awhile and see how it goes.
Alternatively get your kit to Irl and find an IT job in a region where you think you might setup your holding , get settled into the IT job and explore some avenues for forest gardening, get horticulture experience and some contacts. 

One other place for gardening info is FutureForests Kealkill in west cork their ethos is very much based on what you describe you want todo, also try to watch the recent movie about Mary Reynolds , 'Dare To Be Wild' , its a true story based on some hippy type gardeneres who went from West Cork to Chelsea RHS and won a GOld Medal (Irelands first) in the 80s. You can also check out The Permaculture Course in Kinsale College, great place and great concept, with alot of English locally. 
Another point Id add, is Irland especially the west has some beautiful coastlines, being near the sea will have a negative effect on your gardening options (salt, storms etc) but will have a positive effect on your lifestyle. people do create fantastic holdings on sea board sites but your are fighting against nature there. 
West Cork and Galway both regions Im familiar with are choc-a-bloc with gardening centres, colleges, short term courses many of which are less 'roses and tulips' and more geared for forest gardening. 
Your idea has invigorated me , re-inspired me, and others Im sure. I feel 20 years younger again and hark back to the days when I had no indoor running water and had to 'p' on the outside taps to unfreeze them on the winter morning . 
I followed a similar path , Im heavily involved in the IT world, but took a few career breaks along the way to garden and get in touch with nature. What are your IT skills, my company (large multinational ) is looking for people..

forgottenhills

Hi James.

My final words on this to you are to repeat what I have said previously, my thoughts on your best plan is to get an IT job somewhere in the South, West or Midlands of Ireland which have rural hinterlands, and in your spare time get experience working an allotment or a garden centre or part time on a suitable farm, even if you are volunteering this work. This will buildup your experience of what this physical work and lifestyle will entail.

And meantime you will continue to build your nest egg to buy a better place. I think that you can get a better bit of land than that place in Mayo if you are prepared to wait. I would also suggest that you buy a place with some sort of shed, even a fixer upper as you will need one. And don't forget to budget a bit of cash to purchase some sort of mechanical assist, a small tractor or even one of those Howard pushed rotavators. There is no point in seeking the hardship of a purely manual approach in this day and age. Work smarter not harder.

Best of luck again with your plans!

Glass fused light

James E M wrote: »

I have toyed many times with this idea and it is very appealing. Ultimately I felt that I could not justify taking full time out to do this as it is considerably more beneficial to keep saving. I will have a look for schemes that I can do in my free time. What ever my plan I will always working and that will most likely be in IT. Financially I should not fail. If I were to run out of money I would have the option to wait and save more but that will hopefully not be necessary.

You are risking a min of 60k between the land and the renovation.
If you have no experience in the areas you are better off risking a year or or two of no savings with p/t work covering living costs than sink all the money into a plot which your not in a position to assess correctly.

James E M wrote: »

Estimating renovation costs is always very tricky.

Only to a degree, a thing to keep in mind is that you are investing in upgrading the property. So any proposed work or saving should be judged in the addition or loss of value to the resale value and daily amenity. At 25 you don't know how your life will pan out but don't limit your ability live comfortably or to sell. Eg electrical work will have to be by a professional for the certs. But you can cost out a basic minimum by design by room. Plumbing and heating is best done by a professional too.

Don't forget to factor in council contribution costs.

James E M wrote: »

As far as I am aware you cannot even get a rough estimation, at least when it comes to esb.

You can get a rough estimate, if you can get talking to someone who would explain what they are costing for, and more important what you need to look for on site.
I remember watching this grand designs where the couple ended up spending 40k for utilities As they never checked.
https://www.severntrentsearches.com/a-grand-flaw-in-house-designing/

James E M wrote: »

A major concern of mine is actually water as I do not know what the regulation will require from me.

Planning will require your dwelling to have drinkable/portable water ie water from a group or public water scheme or sink a well The council department would be able to tell if the property was on a piped section of road or not and the way to get a connection. The local drilling companies can tell the likelyhood of sucess and the cost of drilling.

James E M wrote: »

I am almost certain there is no current provision on site which would mean a septic tank but sometimes, depending on conditions on site, you are required to install a full drainage system. Currently that would brake my budget. It is particularly vexing as the site conditions present which dictate one system over another is probably bogus.

Septic tanks are being phased out in areas for eco reasons, the site you are looking at backed into a watercourse, so maximum cost is for a system which would allow you to drink the output.

James E M wrote: »

water to my dwelling although I'd forgo water if required as its the eventual plan anyway.

If you are looking to set up your own filtration system that could work but remember that drinking water is essential to health. One of the reasons that there are so many "holy" wells is that they provided clean drinking water for the local population.
If you are planning poly tunnels and raised beds plan for an external watering system.

James E M wrote: »

broadband

That a knock in next door question don't trust the sales pitch.

James E M wrote: »

. But yes if the site and derelict dwelling cost 35k then I would hope to be able to renovate the house to a liveable state for another 35k. I plan to do a lot of the work myself. In any case I don't think this derelict dwelling will be any more expensive than another derelict dwelling anywhere else in Ireland. The cost of renovations is a major motivation for spending only 35k on the site.

As Rigolo pointed out a renovation on top of setting up a farm is very labor intensive and if you are learning on the job double and triple the expected time for any task

You plan to live on site but would you consider a village home with a off site land?

Birdnuts

James E M wrote: »

Haha any idea why? Soil too compact or too shallow?



.

Too shallow - grew well though with a good helping of manure

greysides

Moved into Small Holding as per OP request.

James E M

Thanks again for all the replies all. I have asked to have this moved to smallholding board to increase its visibility and perhaps get some more perspectives.

listermint

You've very little hope getting that place to a habitable standard on that budget.

It doesn't appear to have electricity to the property from the pictures. It won't have sewerage bar if you are lucky a block septic tank.

The roof is flat design which in the west coast of Ireland is alarming. They're doesn't appear to be windows if their is then the need replacing.

You haven't indicated you're DIY skills so far but you will need to have a decent level not to mention thousands of euro of tools if you have none. Materials transport .

That's an incredibly small budget. I'd even say not half a budget for such an undertaking.

I'd be looking for something habitable now.

batyushki

We have an acre smallholding (non-residential) on the east coast of Ireland, while working full time. Do not underestimate the amount of time required to accomplish even small things on your own. I spend about 10 hours per week on average there and can just keep up with a polytunnel, fruit trees and outside beds for our personal use. We are nowhere near producing enough vegetables even for our annual consumption. My view is that even a very small holding requires full-time dedication especially in the first 5 years. And this is in very sheltered, good soil.
On the other hand I don't think that this type of life requires a lot of cash. A few solar panels, a well, a pump and a composting toilet go a long way towards satisfying basic necessities. If you're not looking for modern standards of living then there is a lot that can be accomplished for very little. We spent about 3K to build a cabin which I would be happy to live in if I were single. 
A recommendation is to spend some of your holidays WWOOFing and seeing what others have done, you will get many ideas this way.

Chisler2

mOP (who has a well-defined, well-articulated plan for a smallholding in - specifically....... Mayo) - has repeatedly reiterated that he is asking for PRACTICAL advice on that smallholding. I, too, am interested in hearing the ballpark figure for purchase and professional installation (with all the necessary bells and whistles of the crops he mentioned!) of two large commercial-grade polytunnels in the West of Ireland outside Castlebar with (crucial!) additional perspective on labour costs, availability, time-span from commissioning to execution etc. There are reason why Mayo may at first sight appear the cheap option. That is the OP's concern he seeks local/insider knowledge. to this, combined with the

A detailed reply to this, combined with reactions to his budget of 35K for renovation of the house, might be a game-changer.

_Brian wrote: »

One or two good sized commercial grade polytunnels would grow everything you mention above, it’s likely you’d need to import good quality soil to get proper crops, expensive but not prohibitively so.

As for fruit trees, they would need to be carefully planted so as to avoid the late spring frosts if possible. We have a dozen planted here in Cavan and most years since we planted the late frosts ruin the blossoms and so crops are small, the trees are still young though.

I’ll not comment on the social side of things as some people love the solitude that living in remote areas brings.

Often with older houses there will be a garden close to the house that in the past has been cultivated to grow spuds and veg, this will likely be the most fertile piece of ground in your holding through years of enrichment and tilling.

I can see now with plans for forestry why 9acres is appealing and it sounds like a nice plan.

I think if you go the route of decent quality tunnels you could be growing a huge proportion of your veg quite quickly.

NABLOSE

hi there, just read your thread.
We are running a smallholding for the last 11 years here in the northwest of ireland near Sligo. We learned a lot over the years and can give good advice if you interested you can do a short work and travel stay with us, we have a profile on a work and travel website where you can also find more information about our smallholding. Private Message us and i can forward you details. All the best,
Cheers