Can I Accommodate Homeless Couple?

20784

Hi guys,

I just met a couple and they are currently homeless. The DSP and County Council homeless unit can't help and told them to go and sort themselves out or return to Italy. The wife is 7months pregnant with twins

We have 4bed and no spare room, but I have a pump bed but not sure if by law we can accommodate them temporarily pending the time they will apply for PPS number and look for job. The husband is desperate to work. I plan to throw in my pump bed in living room for them but I just want to know if I need to inform my county council as I am on Hap. Also do I need to inform my social welfare office? I just want to help.

Samuel T. Cogley

Laudable OP but no good deed goes unpunished.

uck51js9zml2yt

While is laudable what you consider doing.
You would be better off buying a plane ticket for them to go home to Italy.

If they have no PPS and no job it would appear that they came here with no plan.

On a practical note, you have a full house, no idea how long tey would end up staying with you and a baby on the way. Are you really going to throw them out in 2 months or when baby is born.?

Squatter

20784 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I just met a couple and they are currently homeless. The DSP and County Council homeless unit can't help and told them to go and sort themselves out or return to Italy. The wife is 7months pregnant.

We have 4bed and no spare room, but I have a pump bed but not sure if by law we can accommodate them temporarily pending the time they will apply for PPS number and look for job. The husband is desperate to work. I plan to throw in my pump bed in living room for them but I just want to know if I need to inform my county council as I am on Hap. Also do I need to inform my social welfare office? I just want to help.

They won't be able to get a PPSN without good reason.

"Evidence of identity and address must be provided. In addition, evidence as to why a PPS Number is required must also be provided"

And they may not be able to get onto the social housing list.

IMHO it is completely insane of them to have turned up in Ireland on spec.

My (probably worthless) advice to you is to tread very carefully.

Sleeper12

Being from Italy they are EU citizens & are entitled to live & work here. I'd imagine that they are entitled to social welfare here too.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you putting them up. I suggest that you photo copy their passports in case you come home and you've no furniture left. Don't leave card or bank statements lying around and be careful with them on your pc. Take the same precautions you'd take if you took in an Irish homeless couple.

Did they come to Ireland with no money at all?

I'd love to see how you get on.

20784

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Being from Italy they are EU citizens & are entitled to live & work here. I'd imagine that they are entitled to social welfare here too.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you putting them up. I suggest that you photo copy their passports in case you come home and you've no furniture left. Don't leave card or bank statements lying around and be careful with them on your pc. Take the same precautions you'd take if you took in an Irish homeless couple.

Did they come to Ireland with no money at all?

I'd love to see how you get on.

Yes that's correct. The wife is Italian and the husband is the Spouse and has the EUFam.. They have right to live here legally. They came to live here and the uncle who assured them of accommodation didn't pick his call and his number is no longer going through.

The husband want to work and start family life. They are expecting twins.

20784

20784 wrote: »

Yes that's correct. The wife is Italian and the husband is the Spouse and has the EUFam.. They have right to live here legally. They came to live here and the uncle who assured them of accommodation didn't pick his call and his number is no longer going through.

The husband want to work and start family life. They are expecting twins.

I'm going to sound so heartless but are you 100% they are Italian? Like seen their passports? The uncle story sounds suspicious to me. Could you help to find the uncle instead?

In a situation like this, you're leaving yourself very vulnerable. Best case scenario they are just down on their luck. Worst case? They change the locks while you are out leaving you homeless? Please go into this with eyes wide open.

Bubbaclaus

20784 wrote: »

Yes that's correct. The wife is Italian and the husband is the Spouse and has the EUFam.. They have right to live here legally. They came to live here and the uncle who assured them of accommodation didn't pick his call and his number is no longer going through.

The husband want to work and start family life. They are expecting twins.

This "uncle" story sounds very suspect. I'd be keeping well away from this.

zoe 3619

No advice for you really,but fair play to you for caring.

20784

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm going to sound so heartless but are you 100% they are Italian? Like seen their passports? The uncle story sounds suspicious to me. Could you help to find the uncle instead?

In a situation like this, you're leaving yourself very vulnerable. Best case scenario they are just down on their luck. Worst case? They change the locks while you are out leaving you homeless? Please go into this with eyes wide open.

I saw their passports. The guards involved already. I dropped them off the guards station where they got more information what and what they need to register in full.

fritzelly

She's Italian, he's from outside the EU, they arrive in Ireland to meet an "uncle"

There's a familiar story here...

GGTrek

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Being from Italy they are EU citizens & are entitled to live & work here. I'd imagine that they are entitled to social welfare here too.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you putting them up. I suggest that you photo copy their passports in case you come home and you've no furniture left. Don't leave card or bank statements lying around and be careful with them on your pc. Take the same precautions you'd take if you took in an Irish homeless couple.

Did they come to Ireland with no money at all?

I'd love to see how you get on.

They are not entitled to any social welfare at all unless they have paid at least a few years of PRSI in Ireland (I forgot how long), these people are very irresponsible in coming to Ireland with a woman that is 7 months pregnant and will very likely screw the OP big time and even worse the OP's family who should have a say in the matter. In my life anytime I helped an irresponsible person, things have always gone pear shaped, now I am older and my cynism (being a landlord having to deal with bad tenants has considerably increased my level of cynism) has helped me a lot in life and even more in business.

Spanish Eyes

I admire you caring nature. BUT, surely if they present themselves to homeless services with twins on the way and so on they will be given priority temporary accommodation in an hotel or B+B surely?

Steer them in that direction.

20784

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

This "uncle" story sounds very suspect. I'd be keeping well away from this.

The guards involved already, I actually dropped them off the guard station where they got more information what and what they need to register in full as per they need proof of address. So nothing suspicious at all. I've experienced this myself years ago although I well planned myself then. The difference

BarryD2

20784 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I just met a couple and they are currently homeless. The DSP and County Council homeless unit can't help and told them to go and sort themselves out or return to Italy. The wife is 7months pregnant with twins

We have 4bed and no spare room, but I have a pump bed but not sure if by law we can accommodate them temporarily pending the time they will apply for PPS number and look for job. The husband is desperate to work. I plan to throw in my pump bed in living room for them but I just want to know if I need to inform my county council as I am on Hap. Also do I need to inform my social welfare office? I just want to help.

Presume you're renting? Maybe you should also check with the person who owns the house?

Scraggs

I find it very difficult to believe that in 2018 there is no other way to contact this uncle. The cynic in me says tread carefully!

fritzelly

I wonder how old the Italian passport is and whether she is actually Italian by birth, not a marriage of convenience but a route into another country by marriage of a granted residency of another non EU person
Seems very fishy to move to another country with no money, nowhere to live and no job when you are about to drop 2 kids

20784

GGTrek wrote: »

They are not entitled to any social welfare at all unless they have paid at least a few years of PRSI in Ireland (I forgot how long), these people are very irresponsible in coming to Ireland with a woman that is 7 months pregnant and will very likely screw the OP big time and even worse the OP's family who should have a say in the matter. In my life anytime I helped an irresponsible person, things have always gone pear shaped, now I am older and my cynism (being a landlord having to deal with bad tenants has considerably increased my level of cynism) has helped me a lot in life and even more in business.

They are not here to claim benefit. They came to live and work. I agree that they didn't have a plan B only they rely on the uncle. However, the deed has been done and I think this is not the time to put blame on anyone. The purpose of human life is to serve, and to show compassion and the will to help others.

Sleeper12

BarryD2 wrote:

Presume you're renting? Maybe you should also check with the person who owns the house?

Funny I presumed that they were a homeowner. It's more than a bit cheeky if they are renting

20784

fritzelly wrote: »

I wonder how old the Italian passport is and whether she is actually Italian by birth, not a marriage of convenience but a route into another country by marriage of a granted residency of another non EU person
Seems very fishy to move to another country with no money, nowhere to live and no job when you are about to drop 2 kids

No not at all, the wife is Italian from birth, they are both from the same village and grew up together according to the wife they actually speaks the same language.

20784

20784 wrote: »

The guards involved already, I actually dropped them off the guard station where they got more information what and what they need to register in full as per they need proof of address. So nothing suspicious at all. I've experienced this myself years ago although I well planned myself then. The difference

What do you mean the guards are involved already? Them going to the garda station to ask what they need to register does not mean they are perfectly kosher and a desk sergeant handing them leaflets doesnt equate to them being 'involved'.

As another poster said does the uncle have a Facebook? A surname? A job? If you fully believe their story, your next task is finding tbe uncle.

LincolnHawk

If it's just you or your other half then sure, do what you like although it sounds risky. If you have your own kids too then you're stark raving mad imho

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Funny I presumed that they were a homeowner. It's more than a bit cheeky if they are renting

The OP said they are receiving the HAP.

fritzelly

20784 wrote: »

No not at all, the wife is Italian from birth, they are both from the same village and grew up together according to the wife they actually speaks the same language.

He's not from the Italy tho. If he's been living all his life in Italy from a kid why is he not a registered Italian citizen

Curious how you came to meet them.

annoyedgal

Seems madness that anyone would move to another country at 7 month pregnant with twins without proper set up of job and accommodation. And even crazier that they would not return home now that it's fallen through. Your intentions are very good fair play op but thread carefully esp if you have children of your own in the house.
Do you really want to take on two strangers and newborn twins??

RHJ

This post has been deleted.

20784

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you mean the guards are involved already? Them going to the garda station to ask what they need to register does not mean they are perfectly kosher and a desk sergeant handing them leaflets doesnt equate to them being 'involved'.

As another poster said does the uncle have a Facebook? A surname? A job? If you fully believe their story, your next task is finding tbe uncle.

Met them close by the guards entrance when they approached. I believe the uncle deliberately switched off his phone when he realised they are truly coming over. This happens a lot...

Wheeliebin30

Jesus, something tells me I’ll hear the op on joe Duffy in a few months.

Stay well clear.

the_syco

Sounds like the women hopes that the twins get Irish citizenship when born here.

The uncle not picking up the phone sounds like the uncle doesn't want them, f he even exists!

They could take anything not bolted to the wall, and it'll be your word against theirs that you didn't give it to them. Likewise with jewelry going missing.

=-=

Increasing the people in the house without the LL's prior written permission could lead to you being evicted.

Mantis Toboggan

Sounds like a scam OP you wouldn't be the first person to be duped, steer clear.

wexie

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like the women hopes that the twins get Irish citizenship when born here.

There wouldn't be any real advantage to Irish citizenship over Italian though would there?

4068ac1elhodqr

Sounds like an issue Lily Allen or Madonna could probably out help with.

fritzelly

20784 wrote: »

Met them close by the guards entrance when they approached. I believe the uncle deliberately switched off his phone when he realised they are truly coming over. This happens a lot...

So they approached you

Happens a lot? People arrive heavily pregnant to meet an uncle?

tinkerbell

You are being very foolish to go ahead with this and are putting the welfare of your own family at risk. This would be a very stupid move. If they have nowhere to live and work then they should consider going back to Italy where they have local family supports.

tinkerbell

Just saw that they approached you ... scam!

20784

fritzelly wrote: »

He's not from the Italy tho. If he's been living all his life in Italy from a kid why is he not a registered Italian citizen

Curious how you came to meet them.

I have no idea about registration in Italy. Obviously they showed me their passports and marriage certs as I can't just get involved with total strangers, I was convinced as we went in the guards station together. But they were referred to homeless unit. The homeless unit require pps number, and to get pps number you must provide proof of address. You understand now. I've accommodated an Irish guy for two days who got drunk sometimes last year, although i informed guards about it and they said it's ok but i must ask his ID which he showed me. So if this similar it would have been more easier. Thanks anyway.

fritzelly

You've seen his passport - where is he from?

I'm 100% convinced you are being taken for a ride.

punisher5112

Bizarre that you would take in a story and then move people in.

They sound like economic tourists where they know the system is much better here.

Best place for them is back home.

20784

20784 wrote: »

Met them close by the guards entrance when they approached. I believe the uncle deliberately switched off his phone when he realised they are truly coming over. This happens a lot...

Why do you keep saying the guards are involved if you met them, actually was approached by them near a garda station?

Im close to the Jeanie Johnson right now but it doesn't mean I'm involved in the navy.

fritzelly

This comes to mind
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/probe-into-irishbased-marriage-scam-being-used-to-obtain-eu-residency-for-illegal-immigrants-36855018.html

I would guess you are not an expert in Italian marriage certs.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I admire you caring nature. BUT, surely if they present themselves to homeless services with twins on the way and so on they will be given priority temporary accommodation in an hotel or B+B surely?

Steer them in that direction.

Kind of unfair that some Homeless Irish person might lose their spot in a homeless shelter because these people turned up to a foreign country with no means of supporting themselves.

To be brutally honest and a bit cold I would stay well away from this, its their own stupidity for taking such a risk when she is pregnant. I would never dream of taking such a risk if my wife was pregant.

enricoh

Is the italian passport real or fake?
Decided to relocate while 7 months pregnant?
Can they not go back to that war torn hellhole - Italy?
Is their money tied up in a Nigerian diamond mine and just need 10k to get it out?!

If I was your landlord and got wind of this I'd congratulate you on your humanity and serve you with an eviction notice!

Mrs OBumble

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

BUT, surely if they present themselves to homeless services with twins on the way and so on they will be given priority temporary accommodation in an hotel or B+B surely?

Steer them in that direction.

Nope, not if they don't have any connection to this country.

OP, how do you know it's twins? How do you know they're Italian - do you know an Italian speaker who can have a conversation with them to check the story out?

There is a slight chance that their story is legit.

There's a far higher chance that some Roma people have learned enough English to have advanced to this next level of "fundraising".


And lastly ... no you cannot accommodate them. You are on HAP. Conditions of this include getting the council's approval for anyone who lives in the house - and there's no way the council will appprove overcrowding.


TBH, I would recommand contacting your local branch of Vincent de Paul (or Focus or Peter McVerry or similar if they are in your areas). Their folks are experienced at realistic compassion, and will help this couple secure tickets home or whatever else is appropriate.

CeilingFly

I've tried very hard to see it from your angle, but everything shouts scam.

The uncle, the willingness to show passports and even marriage certs, the 7 month pregnancy (handy, just at the no travel stage)

CelticRambler

20784 wrote: »

They are not here to claim benefit. They came to live and work.

... to live and look for work, which is their right under EU freedom of movement. But if they don't find any within three months, then their entitlement to stay expires unless they have sufficient resources to support themselves. That does not appear to be the case, so the advice they've been given - go back to Italy - is the best they're going to get.


I see the other side of this here in France, with people (mostly English ) just deciding some day that they want to live and (look for) work in France, with absolutely no idea of what they're getting themselves into. They can spend over a decade living in a mouldy caravan in the middle of nowhere before finally giving up and going to back to the UK. Chances are you'll have your lodgers for the same length of time if you're not careful.

Squatter

20784 wrote: »

They came to live and work.

To live where?

The husband/partner may have come here to work - with what qualifications, if any?

But his 7 months pregnant wife/partner definitely didn't.

James 007

She wont be expecting any twins if you put her on a blow up bed. Expect to be sued.

Avatar MIA

20784 wrote: »

Hi guys,

The wife is 7months pregnant

Any room in the Inn?

tintin67

They are both Roma scam artists. Good love your innocence. If you are determined to throw your money away buy them Ryanair flights to 'Italy' but do not under any circumstances allow them into your home.

HappyAsLarE

You are being had, OP. Could be a hard lesson.

uck51js9zml2yt

20784 wrote: »

No not at all, the wife is Italian from birth, they are both from the same village and grew up together according to the wife they actually speaks the same language.

And you verified this story how exactly?