1844 UK Marriage Lookup Request

nikonuser

Could I ask anyone with UK subscriptions to check a Marriage in or around 1841 of Martin Casey & Mary Keenan, in the London area. My subscriptions have run out & not in a position to renew at the moment. Martin is a Widow in 1851 and remarries in 1855. His Father is John Casey on the 1855 cert. I am trying got find further links to Martin coming from Ireland where he was born (1851 & 1861 UK Census).
I am also looking for a son of theirs, Thomas born 1844, again in and around the London area, Middlesex or Sussex I assume.

Thank you in advance
J

pinkypinky

You may not be aware of www.freebmd.org.uk which has transcribed indexes of UK marriages. It's not a complete transcription of everything but it's very good.

From FMP civil index:
First name(s) MARTIN
Last name CASEY
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1841
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ MARTIN CASEY married one of these people
Mary Keenam, Elizabeth Emily Anderson, Mary Ann Burls, Catherine Dalton
District Edmonton
District number -
County Middlesex
Country England
Volume 3
Volume as transcribed 3
Page number 73

Good luck that it's also in the RC index:
First name(s) Martinus Or Martinum
Last name Casey
Role Groom
Birth year -
Resident parish Hornsey
Marriage year 1841
Marriage date 23 Apr 1841
Church St Francis de Sales
Parish Tottenham
Diocese Westminster
Deanery Haringey
Ecclesiastical province Westminster
County Middlesex
Spouse's first name(s) Maria
Spouse's last name Keeham
Spouse's resident parish Keenham
Father's first name(s) Joannis
Father's last name Casey
Country England
Archive Westminster Archdiocesan Archives
Register type Baptisms and Marriages
Records year range 1794-1856
Record set England Roman Catholic Parish Marriages

spurious

There are entries for a Martin Casey and Mary Keenam marrying in the Apr-Jun quarter of 1841 in Edmonton, North London.
Registration Year: 1841
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Edmonton
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3
Page: 73

You would have to order the cert for other details.

There is a Thomas Casey entry:
Name: Thomas Casey
Registration Year: 1844
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: West London
Inferred County: London
Volume: 2
Page: 261

Again, you'd have to order the cert to get more.

nikonuser

pinkypinky & spurious, many thank for those. With a Father 'John' I am fairly sure this Martin my GG Granddad. I think though that ordering the Certificate may offer little else except for the Mother's name?
I know Mary is dead by 1851 and Thomas must be living elsewhere other than with Martin, his Dad, as Martin is a Lodger in the '51 Census with no Thomas. They are back together in 1861 with Martin remarried & Thomas living with his Step-Mam.
Martin was a Constable in the '51 Census but I cannot find him in the National Archives Records, he left before 1861, a Night Watchman in that Census.
Finding where in Ireland he came from is proving difficult, born about 1820 and in England in by 1841 I am reliant on Church Records but will continue the search.
Many thanks again.
Jimmie

spurious

A Martin Casey ('city policeman') is mentioned as a witness in this case in 1848: https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?div=t18480103-434

pinkypinky

The certificate will not have the mother's name. Afaik, they don't even have it on 2017 marriage certs!!
The father's occupation would be on the cert though.

nikonuser

spurious, thanks for that, I had seen reference to that but not the full text. Make for interesting reading and I am confident that this Martin Casey might be my lad. Do you know if the 'City Policeman 284' might be his Badge or Reference Number? Any of the other Police seem to have 5 digit numbers.
J

nikonuser

pinkypinky, Martin's 2nd Marriage in 1855 has his Father as 'Deceased' so if he was still alive for the 1841 Marriage there is a chance that his Occupation might be listed? I don't know whether John Casey (Martin's Dad) ever left Ireland I'm afraid.
J

spurious

nikonuser wrote: »

spurious, thanks for that, I had seen reference to that but not the full text. Make for interesting reading and I am confident that this Martin Casey might be my lad. Do you know if the 'City Policeman 284' might be his Badge or Reference Number? Any of the other Police seem to have 5 digit numbers.
J

I was looking at that. There seem to be a couple who also have three digit numbers. I wonder were they a sort of auxiliary police? I'm sure an email to Kew or one of the discussion groups re the Met might help.

There is a Mark Casey (could be him, could be a mistake) police constable 284 in this case too (you wiill have to search the page for Casey):
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?name=18560818

However, in another case https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?div=t18610107-116 a Richard Loughmore is referred to as police constable 284.

nikonuser

I’ll start trawling so, many thanks. J

nikonuser

City Policeman 284 seems to refer to more than one man, maybe it is a reference of the Court Proceedings. I'll 'get on the case'. Thank for that, Jimmie

pinkypinky

nikonuser wrote: »

pinkypinky, Martin's 2nd Marriage in 1855 has his Father as 'Deceased' so if he was still alive for the 1841 Marriage there is a chance that his Occupation might be listed? I don't know whether John Casey (Martin's Dad) ever left Ireland I'm afraid.
J

Even if he was dead in 1841, they might still have included his occupation. There was no hard and fast rules for the way this recorded. Sometimes you even get "dead" as the occupation.

nikonuser

No set rules That wedding was in April 1841 in London (ish) and the Census was 6th June that but he is not in it, with his new wife. J

nikonuser

A related question: I am assuming that Martin Casey emigrated to England around 1839 if he married there in 1841, allowing for meeting Mary Keenan & courtship etc. I can see a young lad, late teens, early 20's making the journey. The question: Would a young girl/lady have made a similar trip? Did young girls emigrate on their own or would it have been with their families. Assuming she wasn't from the UK. I don't know where she was from as yet.
J

tabbey

nikonuser wrote: »

. Do you know if the 'City Policeman 284' might be his Badge or Reference Number? Any of the other Police seem to have 5 digit numbers.
J

You may be confusing the City of London Police with the Metropolitan Police.

The City only covers the so called "square mile".
I understand the City Police also covers the Temple, but only a small police force would be needed for the city, occupied by wellbehaved bank and insurance employees,who go home after work, leaving the city virtually empty.

nikonuser

tabbey, Martin is mentioned in a couple of Newspapers ‘City Policeman..,’ (If this is him). Would this point to him being in the City of London or the Metropolitan Police? I haven’t found him in the National Archives as yet. Thanks, J

tabbey

nikonuser wrote: »

tabbey, Martin is mentioned in a couple of Newspapers ‘City Policeman..,’ (If this is him). Would this point to him being in the City of London or the Metropolitan Police? I haven’t found him in the National Archives as yet. Thanks, J

City Policeman means just that; a member of the City of London Police.

nikonuser

Thank you for that, it might help narrow down the search for him. J

spurious

https://www.british-genealogy.com/threads/57636-City-of-London-police

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Police

Looks like their records are not at Kew with the London Metropoiltan Police records, but in the London Metropolitan archives. I'd send an email and see.

ask.lma@cityoflondon.gov.uk

nikonuser

Spurious, I saw that today all right. I’ll have an email to them first thing tomorrow. Hopefully a ‘one name’ request might be answered. Thanks for that, Jimmie

spurious

You could always try The Random acts of genealogical kindness site for a volunteer might go look for you, if the email doesn't get you anywhere.

nikonuser

New to me, many thanks for the suggestion. I’ll post how I get on, J

Hermy

nikonuser wrote: »

New to me, many thanks for the suggestion...

Ditto.

pinkypinky

Me too!

nikonuser

spurious, I sent request to the City of London email address you gave me, thank you for that. Wait and see time.
J

Waitsian

spurious wrote: »

You could always try The Random acts of genealogical kindness site for a volunteer might go look for you, if the email doesn't get you anywhere.

Wow, what an amazing resource. I need lookups in a Hamilton, Ont library (newspaper microfilm) and there's a volunteer in the city who will do it for p&p only. Incredible.

How come no one's heard of this site before?! :P

spurious

mod9maple wrote:

How come no one's heard of this site before?!

I can't remember now where I came across it. I've looked up a couple of things in the National Archives for people. The funny thing is, in doing so, i almost always learn something useful to my own searches.

Many of the people who send queries just need to be pointed towards irishgenealogy.ie for hours of amusement.

nikonuser

Thank for all the help on this request. The Marriage between Martin Casey & Mary Keenam took place in April 1841. Strangely though I have yet to find them together on the 1841 Census which took place 6 June that year. I know Mary has died by the time the next Census in 1851 takes place. I thought that Martin & Mary would have been together & she possibly would have registered with her married name. If I could find her on the '41 Census would that possibly tell me if she was Irish? And an approximate age? Jimmie

nikonuser

It was suggested that I contact the City of London Police to see if they had records for my GG Granddad, Martin Casey. It turns out he was in the Police, he joined in June 1842, Police Constable 284, as was recorded in the Old Bailey transcript supplies by spurious. He was pensioned off in 1857 which coincides with the '51 & '61 Census.

I now know he wasn't in training for the 1841 Census. The search continues.

Again, many thanks for the help & suggestions. J