Dublin Metrolink - alternative routes

brianc89

Any chance a moderator can change this thread to "future routes" rather than "alternative routes"?

Or perhaps, a new "future routes" thread should be opened and this thread closed, since the current MetroLink route is not up for discussion...

strassenwo!f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101690#Comment_120101690

Yes, tom1ie, you are entirely right to ask this.

For my part, I was - in my last post - attempting to give my little answer to some questions which emerged in the kerfuffle aroused by a recent article in the Irish Times, and the subsequent letters.

At the stately pace with which rail transport is developed in Ireland, it is my guess that it will be 50 years before a potential rail line along the N11 will be being considered. I will, sadly, not be involved in that discussion.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101956#Comment_120101956

At the glacial pace rail (or any other major infrastructure- bar motorways) is developed in this country it could be another 50 years and we are still talking about when MetroLink (or whatever it will be called then) will start!

Murph85

Alternatively, what about luas green line extension from westmoreland Street to swords via airport?

Then do some basic current green line upgrades ...

Sam Russell

A metro that would make sense would go from from Tallaght to Clongriffen, through Glasnevin (Cross Guns) so the Glasnevin becomes a junction for the Dart+ and Sligo lines and metro. Obviously it could connect with other trip generators en route.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120103627#Comment_120103627

Once it serves the route I outlined earlier it can end up wherever tbh!

The Rathfarnham, rathmines, terenure section of the city is absolutely choked with traffic and bus connects won’t make that a whole pile better.

A metro is the only answer.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120103745#Comment_120103745

I assume it will get on eventually (whenever that is exactly) but its also comparatively low density with no real room for development so its not going to be a priority.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120103894#Comment_120103894

Dublin's population density is relatively high (I just checked and was surprised). Central London has a population density of 20k people per sqkm, greater London has 6k per sqkm. Amsterdam has c. 5k per sqkm.

Lots of areas in Dublin are 5-7k, while some central areas are 12-15k, with a few up to 20k. Definitely enough to justify additional Metro lines.

https://www.citypopulation.de/en/ireland/dublin/

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120103894#Comment_120103894

Which is completely the wrong attitude.

The only answer to solving the gridlock in this area is a metro.

It doesn’t matter that the density is low and sprawling (even though it isn’t really in certain areas I’ve mentioned for the route).

The traffic gridlock needs to be tackled.

The DublinSW area absolutely needs a metro regardless of density to solve the traffic which is caused by no viable transport alternatives.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120104157#Comment_120104157

All they need is one or 2 development areas such as Cathal Da Brugha and, let's say, Rathfarnham golf course. God knows the south side has enough of those!!! What a royal waste of space.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120104329#Comment_120104329

It’s bad enough as it is without any further development!!!

Of course I welcome further housing development with medium hi rise (5/6 floors) if this means a second metro line gets built in dublin SW because of an improved business case.

strassenwo!f

I previously posted this on the metrolink thread:

[For your information, brianc89:

The local population, and the population density, are much higher at Drumcondra than around Glasnevin Junction.

To illustrate this, if you take the 7 electoral districts broadly around Glasnevin Junction (Botanic A, B and C, Cabra East A and B, Cabra West B and Inns Quay A), these have a total area of 4.759 sq.km, the total population is 24,760 and the density is 5,203 people per sq.km. (2016 census figures).

Against this, if you take the 8 electoral districts broadly around a possible metro station at Drumcondra (Drumcondra South A, B and C, Botanic B and C, Inns Quay A, Ballybough B and Mountjoy B), these have a total area of 3.814 sq.km. (i.e. smaller than the above), a total population of 27,561 (i.e. higher than above) and a density of 7,226 per sq.km (i.e. around 40% higher than at Glasnevin Junction).

I hope that helps, Brian, but I am conscious that I have not seen the most recent census figures.]

I have now seen the 2022 census figures, so I can update the board:

if you take the 7 electoral districts broadly around Glasnevin Junction (Botanic A, B and C, Cabra East A and B, Cabra West B and Inns Quay A), these have a total area of 4.759 sq.km, the total population is 25158 and the density is 5,286 people per sq.km. (2022 census figures).

Against this, if you take the 8 electoral districts broadly around a possible metro station at Drumcondra (Drumcondra South A, B and C, Botanic B and C, Inns Quay A, Ballybough B and Mountjoy B), these have a total area of 3.814 sq.km. (i.e. smaller than the above), a total population of 29360 (i.e. higher than above) and a density of 7,698 per sq.km (i.e. around 45.6% higher than at Glasnevin Junction).

Given that there is a lock on the canal to the west of the Drumcondra bridge, and the next lock down is around 1.17 km away, there don't seem to be any obvious gradient issues which might stand in the way of creation of a rail station on the Midland Line at Drumcondra, broadly along Whitworth Place and probably a bit beyond. This would all seem very doable.

A station at Drumcondra would seem like a desirable thing to have, in any case, with or without the metro, for passengers on the Midland Line. They don't currently have that, and are instead travelling through a busy area of the city with no possibility to alight there.

Add in the metrolink at that point, between the two lines, where interchange between overground rail and the metrolink would involve just a small fraction of what is being billed as an 'easy' connection between the metrolink and Red Luas at O'Connell Street, and the city would have an arrangement where overground rail-overground rail interchanges take place at Glasnevin Junction, and overground rail-metrolink changes take place at Drumcondra.

Putting some distance between the metrolink catchment and the LUAS Green catchment would be a positive, as would the fact that such a metrolink route would undoubtedly serve more local residents (see the above figures) than the current plan.

Disruption to traffic during construction will be invoked as a reason not to do this, even though the metrolink is planned to reduce traffic, and countless other cities have built metros, and metro stations, under roads with traffic. A major sewer in the Drumcondra area, which would render such a project impossible, will doubtless be added in to the mix.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132849#Comment_120132849

Thank you for those updated numbers.

In any case, whichever decision ABP make we can comforted by the fact Drumcondra already has a station which will be upgraded to full Dart.