Finishing cattle

brianb243

Just wondering what you guys reckon what weight of nuts should be fed per bullock for finishing. They are on good quality grass but haven't it in great abundance needless to say!
Have them on 2.5kg per animal at the moment but someone advised me to give them 4kg per head. Any advise welcome

Cavanjack

brianb243 wrote: »

Just wondering what you guys reckon what weight of nuts should be fed per bullock for finishing. They are on good quality grass but haven't it in great abundance needless to say!
Have them on 2.5kg per animal at the moment but someone advised me to give them 4kg per head. Any advise welcome

What age, breed are weight are they?

brianb243

Cavanjack wrote: »

What age, breed are weight are they?

Average 26 months old. Weight from 600 to 700 kgs. Charolais and limousine

Cavanjack

brianb243 wrote: »

Average 26 months old. Weight from 600 to 700 kgs. Charolais and limousine

We never feed cattle outside this time of year. I would be inclined to let them run on for another two months without meal if 26 months and then start feeding meal at 6kg per day for two months to finish under 30 months.

Dunedin

Cavanjack wrote: »

We never feed cattle outside this time of year. I would be inclined to let them run on for another two months without meal if 26 months and then start feeding meal at 6kg per day for two months to finish under 30 months.

+1

blue5000

4kg is going to cost you 1.20 a day. Leave them on 2.5 kg a day, and if it's a cold wet day give them another 2kg in the evening only on the bad days. If they get a lot of meal they won't clean a paddock, and you'll be topping as well as buying meal, more expense. How far off a FS 3 are they?

brianb243

Weighed them paddy's day(day turned out) and may bank holiday and they were putting on between .5 and .9 kgs per day. Thought they should be up on 1.3kg per day. Agree?
Which do you think is better.....nuts or a ration mix?

Bass Reeves

brianb243 wrote: »

Weighed them paddy's day(day turned out) and may bank holiday and they were putting on between .5 and .9 kgs per day. Thought they should be up on 1.3kg per day. Agree?
Which do you think is better.....nuts or a ration mix?

Ration is cheaper not sure how many you have but you could geta 3 way mix of soya hulls, barley and maize for 240/ton. No need for protein when on grass. Not sure if I be keeping them to end of August/September price will be well dropped by then. If they are only putting less than a kg/day I would be inclined to push them to 4kg/day. They should be able to take 500grams ratrion/100kg LW with out reducing grass intake by much. I be pushing them on to sell by late July/early August. A 20c/kg drop in price will cost you 70-80 euro. That is about the equivlent of 16-20kgs DW in value hard to see cattle put all that on in 20-30 days at grass.

Ig grass improves you can pull back to 2-3kgs/day. I prefer to feed at 3kgs for 90 days rather than 5kgs for 60 days. Cattle really thrive with a bit of ration during May-July, you need 2-3 times the amount in September to get same thrive. Feed to hand in late July and you will not go too far wrong.

Cavanjack

Have they been dosed for worms fluke? Were they on a lot of meal indoors before they got out? If they were this might explain the poor thrive if they got out "hot".
It's all work too feeding cattle outside and can be dangerous if there are too many of them. Another reason I avoid it this time of the year. We are drawing meal since last July so a couple of months rest is no harm.

brianb243

Cavanjack wrote: »

Have they been dosed for worms fluke? Were they on a lot of meal indoors before they got out? If they were this might explain the poor thrive if they got out "hot".
It's all work too feeding cattle outside and can be dangerous if there are too many of them. Another reason I avoid it this time of the year. We are drawing meal since last July so a couple of months rest is no harm.

No these never got meal until they were turned out paddy's day. Don't believe in feeding indoors. Tried it one year.
There were dosed with ivomec super so hoping it will cover most things.

brianb243

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Ration is cheaper not sure how many you have but you could geta 3 way mix of soya hulls, barley and maize for 240/ton. No need for protein when on grass. Not sure if I be keeping them to end of August/September price will be well dropped by then. If they are only putting less than a kg/day I would be inclined to push them to 4kg/day. They should be able to take 500grams ratrion/100kg LW with out reducing grass intake by much. I be pushing them on to sell by late July/early August. A 20c/kg drop in price will cost you 70-80 euro. That is about the equivlent of 16-20kgs DW in value hard to see cattle put all that on in 20-30 days at grass.

Ig grass improves you can pull back to 2-3kgs/day. I prefer to feed at 3kgs for 90 days rather than 5kgs for 60 days. Cattle really thrive with a bit of ration during May-July, you need 2-3 times the amount in September to get same thrive. Feed to hand in late July and you will not go too far wrong.

Going starting a similar bunch of cattle so I will try them on ration for the craic to see if there is a difference in weight gain.
Aiming to get first bunch out by July at the latest to get premium price

_Brian

brianb243 wrote: »

No these never got meal until they were turned out paddy's day. Don't believe in feeding indoors. Tried it one year.
There were dosed with ivomec super so hoping it will cover most things.

Each to their own but unless you have fantastic silage their growth rate indoors will be low.
Personally I’d feed indoors, stop 4-6 weeks before turnout and you get compensationsry weight gain from grass.

Other than calves we don’t feed meal at grass until maybe August when grass has turned a bit.

Muckit

_Brian wrote: »

Each to their own but unless you have fantastic silage their growth rate indoors will be low.
Personally I’d feed indoors, stop 4-6 weeks before turnout and you get compensationsry weight gain from grass.

Other than calves we don’t feed meal at grass until maybe August when grass has turned a bit.

This tread is in relation to finishing cattle _Brian, not stores. Feeding meal to finishing cattle indoors as opposed to at grass is the question

Dunedin

brianb243 wrote: »

Weighed them paddy's day(day turned out) and may bank holiday and they were putting on between .5 and .9 kgs per day. Thought they should be up on 1.3kg per day. Agree?
Which do you think is better.....nuts or a ration mix?

Factoring in that they will take time to adjust to getting out to grass, probably only break even for the first month, the weight gain above is bang on I’d say.

Weigh them again June bank holiday and then let us know how they get on.

Cavanjack

brianb243 wrote: »

No these never got meal until they were turned out paddy's day. Don't believe in feeding indoors. Tried it one year.
There were dosed with ivomec super so hoping it will cover most things.

We all run different systems (none of them perfect) but I'd prefer to supplement when cattle are in on silage rather that when they get out to grass in the spring. Cattle can do a serious thrive on spring grass alone if conditions are right and Your's will probably pick up thrive as they get time goes on. Had friesian yearling bullocks do .98kg a day last year on grass alone for 200 days. I'm sure if Yours are weighed mid summer they will have surpassed this.

Bass Reeves

Dunedin wrote: »

Factoring in that they will take time to adjust to getting out to grass, probably only break even for the first month, the weight gain above is bang on I’d say.

Weigh them again June bank holiday and then let us know how they get on.

I would have to disagree. now I have an open shed rather than a hot house flower. When cattle hit grass( if they have it as in this year) they thrive fro the go. I expect cattle to do a kg/day on grass alone if they have plenty of it. Not happening this year. If they are only doing a bit with a 1/2 a kg/day it is hard to Continental cattle hitting enough to average over a kg/day for the first 60 days. Thrive is well below average this year due to lack of grass. I be feeding to compensate to slaughter early.

_Brian

Muckit wrote: »

This tread is in relation to finishing cattle _Brian, not stores. Feeding meal to finishing cattle indoors as opposed to at grass is the question

My bad, as often my train of thought wandered off.

brianb243

Weighed same bunch this bank holidayJune 2nd) a month after weighing them previously.....a huge difference. One bullock went from 712kgs to 794kg in a month. I weighed him twice, no word of a lie. Average gain across the board was 1.9kg per day. Very happy

Dickie10

anyone start meal finshing heifers or bullocks at grass yet? i have 26 continental heifers around 25-27 months old now is it too early to start?

Cavanjack

Dickie10 wrote: »

anyone start meal finshing heifers or bullocks at grass yet? i have 26 continental heifers around 25-27 months old now is it too early to start?

I wouldn’t usually start feeding bullocks for another month at least as there is still plenty of power in the grass.
Saying that for the last two years I fed bullocks from mid may that were 30 months in July/august. They fattened very fast although the weight wasn’t in them compared to the cattle going from September on but they probably left as much.

richie123

Dickie10 wrote: »

anyone start meal finshing heifers or bullocks at grass yet? i have 26 continental heifers around 25-27 months old now is it too early to start?

I have ...despite my best efforts not to,cold wet weather is a disaster

Bass Reeves

Dickie10 wrote: »

anyone start meal finshing heifers or bullocks at grass yet? i have 26 continental heifers around 25-27 months old now is it too early to start?

I always start to pick out from early May. I base it on age and condition. You also have to factor in weight against weight gain.
On age and condition as QA can significantly influence price you start to pick out cattle that may be way under FS it cattle that are significantly heave where QA is gauranteed or not an issue.

Two examples. A Hereford bullock will not be 30 months until end of August he is on ration for 3 weeks bought late last October for 470 euro at 350 kgs. If he grades O+ 3- at 320 kgs @4/ kg he will gross 1280...I think he will leave a small profit . If I lose the HE bonus and the QA drops to 8 c/ kg it's a 90 euro difference.

CH bullock April 18, bought at 480 kgs for 780 last year if he hangs 380 kgs @4/ kg it's 1520 euro. If I hold him two months longer and the price drops 20/ kg it's 76 euro. He has to
Add 20kgsmin DW to break even before grass costs are added

cacs

What would you advise me. I have 10 store bullocks two store heifers. The bullocks were weighed about a month ago. The heaviest was around 570kg the lightest was around 480kg. Heifers around 400 kg. They are 18 months old. Mostly u grade lim. They are going into 1400 kg dm covers and cows are coming after when cover hits around 1000. The cattle are on fire doing really well. I was planning on holding them until the first week in September. And start nuting them from mid July with around 4kg of ration. I think the heaviest will hit 700kg plus the lightest will be over 600 kg the heifers should be 500kg plus. My question would you keep them that long.

Bass Reeves

cacs wrote: »

What would you advise me. I have 10 store bullocks two store heifers. The bullocks were weighed about a month ago. The heaviest was around 570kg the lightest was around 480kg. Heifers around 400 kg. They are 18 months old. Mostly u grade lim. They are going into 1400 kg dm covers and cows are coming after when cover hits around 1000. The cattle are on fire doing really well. I was planning on holding them until the first week in September. And start nuting them from mid July with around 4kg of ration. I think the heaviest will hit 700kg plus the lightest will be over 600 kg the heifers should be 500kg plus. My question would you keep them that long.

You are s way too technical for me. My game is to buy sh!t average or below average cattle and turn a margin on them. The examples I have earlier were extreme's on a finishing bunch 25.

You are trying to be technically efficient ( we were posting about it on the grazing thread) I am just a slightly below average trader

Just as a matter of interest, where did your farming interest come from. Did you inherit or buy your land.

The final question is are you interested in profitability or what the farm and cattle look like

cacs

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You are s way too technical for me. My game is to buy sh!t average or below average cattle and turn a margin on them. The examples I have earlier were extreme's on a finishing bunch 25.

You are trying to be technically efficient ( we were posting about it on the grazing thread) I am just a slightly below average trader

Just as a matter of interest, where did your farming interest come from. Did you inherit or buy your land.

The final question is are you interested in profitability or what the farm and cattle look like

Has Bass. I am laughing here to myself. I thinking I have been analysed by a phycologist . I was posting on the other thread as well. Same motivation I suppose. Honestly I don’t care how the cattle look. I am only interested how they perform. My goal with this bunch of stores was to get the as close to finish as possible. But it has been a hard spring summer to date an I am really working for it. I have a small west of ireland farm that I took over from my father. I keep 20 suckler cows and sell the stores at 18-22 months. My goal is get them as heavy as I can with as little nuts as I can. What ever I do from work to the land is analysed. I cannot do any other way if I can’t put it paper and see the progress I don’t do it. I could farm an awful lot simpler and easier but if it’s not efficient And done to max I have no interest in it. It’s just the way I am cut. This way of doing it is not for everyone. But I get an unreal kick out doing this way.

What I am trying to figure out will it pay to keep them and feed them or off load now. Grass is cheap they may eat around €100-120 worth of ration. But will I be paid when the factories cut the price and and the price in mart falls also.

Bass Reeves

cacs wrote: »

Has Bass. I am laughing here to myself. I thinking I have been analysed by a phycologist . I was posting on the other thread as well. Same motivation I suppose. Honestly I don’t care how the cattle look. I am only interested how they perform. My goal with this bunch of stores was to get the as close to finish as possible. But it has been a hard spring summer to date an I am really working for it. I have a small west of ireland farm that I took over from my father. I keep 20 suckler cows and sell the stores at 18-22 months. My goal is get them as heavy as I can with as little nuts as I can. What ever I do from work to the land is analysed. I cannot do any other way if I can’t put it paper and see the progress I don’t do it. I could farm an awful lot simpler and easier but if it’s not efficient And done to max I have no interest in it. It’s just the way I am cut. This way of doing it is not for everyone. But I get an unreal kick out doing this way.

What I am trying to figure out will it pay to keep them and feed them or off load now. Grass is cheap they may eat around €100-120 worth of ration. But will I be paid when the factories cut the price and and the price in mart falls also.

It's a bit like crystal ball grazing what way prices are in early September this year. Will prices hold or not. There is a risk that processor's will start to create panic by hitting prices around the edges of what cattle are there. For example hitting those heavy cattle over 420 kgs DW just like they are trying to pull cow price at present. However Quality cattle are tight I saw an AA heifer 600 kgs make 1400 yesterday in Gortnalea that's 4.5/ kg.

Its very hard to finish them Continental cattle at a young age. However if you are going to trying to kill off grass is the best hope. You can buy i
Barley maize hulls as ration blown into a bin for 270/280/ ton. Feed at 3 kgs for 13 weeks that will cost you 73 euro/ head if holding them to end of August. I would buy minerals as well and throw 50-60 grams/ head kg of it on top of the ration for the next 7-8 weeks.

Depending on how they are looking you can add another 1-2 kgs for August. In general it's hard to get fat cover on some of those Continental bullocks especially if off Continental cows that why you need to drop the protein in the ration. You could feed a beef nut or ration for the first 4-6 weeks but I be change to barley hulls maize mix for the last 7-8 weeks

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

CH bullock April 18, bought at 480 kgs for 780 last year if he hangs 380 kgs @4/ kg it's 1520 euro.

That’s a very poor kill for a bullock heading for 40 months.

Bass Reeves

Dunedin wrote: »

That’s a very poor kill for a bullock heading for 40 months.

He was 470 when he was bought last September. He got nothing but grass and silage over the winter. Went on ration three weeks ago. Maybe he kill a bit heavier maybe not. That's allowing him to have put on 220 kgs LW.

Dickie10

bullocks will surpise you, the last two of my own suckler bred bull yearlings i had them cut and kept them and finished with the heifers they came into over 1600 last september with bad prices around 29 months old. love to be killing my own bred cattle ideally but cant and wont with work commitments.

cacs

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's a bit like crystal ball grazing what way prices are in early September this year. Will prices hold or not. There is a risk that processor's will start to create panic by hitting prices around the edges of what cattle are there. For example hitting those heavy cattle over 420 kgs DW just like they are trying to pull cow price at present. However Quality cattle are tight I saw an AA heifer 600 kgs make 1400 yesterday in Gortnalea that's 4.5/ kg.

Its very hard to finish them Continental cattle at a young age. However if you are going to trying to kill off grass is the best hope. You can buy i
Barley maize hulls as ration blown into a bin for 270/280/ ton. Feed at 3 kgs for 13 weeks that will cost you 73 euro/ head if holding them to end of August. I would buy minerals as well and throw 50-60 grams/ head kg of it on top of the ration for the next 7-8 weeks.

Depending on how they are looking you can add another 1-2 kgs for August. In general it's hard to get fat cover on some of those Continental bullocks especially if off Continental cows that why you need to drop the protein in the ration. You could feed a beef nut or ration for the first 4-6 weeks but I be change to barley hulls maize mix for the last 7-8 weeks

Thanks Bass great advice

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Its very hard to finish them Continental cattle at a young age. However if you are going to trying to kill off grass is the best hope. You can buy i
Barley maize hulls as ration blown into a bin for 270/280/ ton. Feed at 3 kgs for 13 weeks that will cost you 73 euro/ head if holding them to end of August. I would buy minerals as well and throw 50-60 grams/ head kg of it on top of the ration for the next 7-8 weeks.

Depending on how they are looking you can add another 1-2 kgs for August. In general it's hard to get fat cover on some of those Continental bullocks especially if off Continental cows that why you need to drop the protein in the ration. You could feed a beef nut or ration for the first 4-6 weeks but I be change to barley hulls maize mix for the last 7-8 weeks

All continental cattle here (limo from limo cross cows) and I have no issue to finish all steers/heifers at circa 29 months off the grass with average of 2kg of bull power nuts for max 7 weeks. I certainly wouldn’t recommend feeding for 13 weeks - more for a shorter burst is better than less for a longer period.

Granted they’re on good land but good grass management is key. Paddocks and regular moving. I’ve never had an issue finishing at that age. Generally kill last week of July and they’d be January/feb calves.

cacs

Dunedin wrote: »

All continental cattle here (limo from limo cross cows) and I have no issue to finish all steers/heifers at circa 29 months off the grass with average of 2kg of bull power nuts for max 7 weeks. I certainly wouldn’t recommend feeding for 13 weeks - more for a shorter burst is better than less for a longer period.

Granted they’re on good land but good grass management is key. Paddocks and regular moving. I’ve never had an issue finishing at that age. Generally kill last week of July and they’d be January/feb calves.

I am on pretty good land. They are going into covers of 1400 and out at 800-1000. The cows come after and clean out the paddocks. The bullocks Will be 600 to 700 kg this September. They will be only 19-20 months of
Age I could push them to have ready for Slaughter i am not so sure will they be there. As they stand in the field now they are 500-600 kg I have not weighed them in the last month but at a guess they are doing 1kg a day. I plan on start nutting them from mid July on 4-6kg of ration to see how far can I push them. A couple of the maybe ready I don’t think all of them will be.

Bass Reeves

Dunedin wrote: »

All continental cattle here (limo from limo cross cows) and I have no issue to finish all steers/heifers at circa 29 months off the grass with average of 2kg of bull power nuts for max 7 weeks. I certainly wouldn’t recommend feeding for 13 weeks - more for a shorter burst is better than less for a longer period.

Granted they’re on good land but good grass management is key. Paddocks and regular moving. I’ve never had an issue finishing at that age. Generally kill last week of July and they’d be January/feb calves.

These are young cattle. If you want to kill them at this age you need a long lead in period. Getting away with 2 kg for 6 weeks is good going. Do not know what is in bull power or any other special but. Usually bull nuts can be high in P. If you are using good quality grass during June and July you should really be targeting fibre and energy.

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

These are young cattle. If you want to kill them at this age you need a long lead in period. Getting away with 2 kg for 6 weeks is good going. Do not know what is in bull power or any other special but. Usually bull nuts can be high in P. If you are using good quality grass during June and July you should really be targeting fibre and energy.

Sorry, didn’t realize you were referring to cattle around 19-20 months as yes, they’d be a tougher boy to finish. But equally I think it’s madness finishing continental cattle at that age - they need maturity that comes when they come towards 30 months.

*bull power nut is 14% protein and more energy based geared towards finishing.

cacs

Dunedin wrote: »

Sorry, didn’t realize you were referring to cattle around 19-20 months as yes, they’d be a tougher boy to finish. But equally I think it’s madness finishing continental cattle at that age - they need maturity that comes when they come towards 30 months.

*bull power nut is 14% protein and more energy based geared towards finishing.

That’s what I am thinking too. They are great forward stores but they do need more time. Would a finisher want them just off grass or should I buy them and push them them on

Bass Reeves

Dunedin wrote: »

Sorry, didn’t realize you were referring to cattle around 19-20 months as yes, they’d be a tougher boy to finish. But equally I think it’s madness finishing continental cattle at that age - they need maturity that comes when they come towards 30 months.

*bull power nut is 14% protein and more energy based geared towards finishing.

Cavs is planning on hanging these early September. If he can get the heifers to 600kgs they will kill 315-330 cattle. Bullocks at 650-700kgs should hand 350-380 kgs.

If they were mine I be inclined to do that as well. If you carry them to 28-30 months you are looking at a full winter costs and bullocks that will be killing 500 kgs+DW and heifers hitting 450kgs DW.

I would not like to have them cattle next year

cacs

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cavs is planning on hanging these early September. If he can get the heifers to 600kgs they will kill 315-330 cattle. Bullocks at 650-700kgs should hand 350-380 kgs.

If they were mine I be inclined to do that as well. If you carry them to 28-30 months you are looking at a full winter costs and bullocks that will be killing 500 kgs+DW and heifers hitting 450kgs DW.

I would not like to have them cattle next year

I don’t have the winter accommodation for them for a second winter. But I want to get them into as much weight as I can. The next man can finish them. I am not sure they will be ready by September

Bass Reeves

cacs wrote: »

I don’t have the winter accommodation for them for a second winter. But I want to get them into as much weight as I can. The next man can finish them. I am not sure they will be ready by September

Feeding ration is only break even at best and that is in finishing cattle. If you intend taking them to the mart 1-2 kgs for 6-7 weeks to put a shine on them. I be selling in August. IMO I think it's going to be a brave man to winter finish cattle next winter with ration prices. You want to be buying quality continental cattle at 2/kg or below it. With numbers staring to come through after Christmas what will beef price be

memorystick

Stupid question but do cattle have to in test if they’re being slaughtered?

Bass Reeves

memorystick wrote: »

Stupid question but do cattle have to in test if they’re being slaughtered?

No your herd has to be in test but individual cattle do not need to be.One catch is that if you have a significent number of out of test cattle in you herd at time of test then you may be locked up from selling in a mart

memorystick

Thanks. I test in August but but cattle I bought last October will be fat and out of test in a few weeks. I’m ok to sell.

Bass Reeves

memorystick wrote: »

Thanks. I test in August but but cattle I bought last October will be fat and out of test in a few weeks. I’m ok to sell.

Yes just Check with agent or processor but that the way it works now

Cavanjack

memorystick wrote: »

Thanks. I test in August but but cattle I bought last October will be fat and out of test in a few weeks. I’m ok to sell.

Yeah your are still in test so you could kill them up until august, don’t worry you’ll hear when you are out of test !!