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Finishing cattle

  • 09-05-2018 10:39pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭✭ brianb243


    Just wondering what you guys reckon what weight of nuts should be fed per bullock for finishing. They are on good quality grass but haven't it in great abundance needless to say!
    Have them on 2.5kg per animal at the moment but someone advised me to give them 4kg per head. Any advise welcome


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭ Cavanjack


    brianb243 wrote: »
    Just wondering what you guys reckon what weight of nuts should be fed per bullock for finishing. They are on good quality grass but haven't it in great abundance needless to say!
    Have them on 2.5kg per animal at the moment but someone advised me to give them 4kg per head. Any advise welcome

    What age, breed are weight are they?


  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭✭ brianb243


    Cavanjack wrote: »
    What age, breed are weight are they?

    Average 26 months old. Weight from 600 to 700 kgs. Charolais and limousine


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭ Cavanjack


    brianb243 wrote: »
    Average 26 months old. Weight from 600 to 700 kgs. Charolais and limousine

    We never feed cattle outside this time of year. I would be inclined to let them run on for another two months without meal if 26 months and then start feeding meal at 6kg per day for two months to finish under 30 months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭ Dunedin


    Cavanjack wrote: »
    We never feed cattle outside this time of year. I would be inclined to let them run on for another two months without meal if 26 months and then start feeding meal at 6kg per day for two months to finish under 30 months.

    +1


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭ blue5000


    4kg is going to cost you 1.20 a day. Leave them on 2.5 kg a day, and if it's a cold wet day give them another 2kg in the evening only on the bad days. If they get a lot of meal they won't clean a paddock, and you'll be topping as well as buying meal, more expense. How far off a FS 3 are they?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭✭ brianb243


    Weighed them paddy's day(day turned out) and may bank holiday and they were putting on between .5 and .9 kgs per day. Thought they should be up on 1.3kg per day. Agree?
    Which do you think is better.....nuts or a ration mix?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,166 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    brianb243 wrote: »
    Weighed them paddy's day(day turned out) and may bank holiday and they were putting on between .5 and .9 kgs per day. Thought they should be up on 1.3kg per day. Agree?
    Which do you think is better.....nuts or a ration mix?

    Ration is cheaper not sure how many you have but you could geta 3 way mix of soya hulls, barley and maize for 240/ton. No need for protein when on grass. Not sure if I be keeping them to end of August/September price will be well dropped by then. If they are only putting less than a kg/day I would be inclined to push them to 4kg/day. They should be able to take 500grams ratrion/100kg LW with out reducing grass intake by much. I be pushing them on to sell by late July/early August. A 20c/kg drop in price will cost you 70-80 euro. That is about the equivlent of 16-20kgs DW in value hard to see cattle put all that on in 20-30 days at grass.

    Ig grass improves you can pull back to 2-3kgs/day. I prefer to feed at 3kgs for 90 days rather than 5kgs for 60 days. Cattle really thrive with a bit of ration during May-July, you need 2-3 times the amount in September to get same thrive. Feed to hand in late July and you will not go too far wrong.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭ Cavanjack


    Have they been dosed for worms fluke? Were they on a lot of meal indoors before they got out? If they were this might explain the poor thrive if they got out "hot".
    It's all work too feeding cattle outside and can be dangerous if there are too many of them. Another reason I avoid it this time of the year. We are drawing meal since last July so a couple of months rest is no harm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭✭ brianb243


    Cavanjack wrote: »
    Have they been dosed for worms fluke? Were they on a lot of meal indoors before they got out? If they were this might explain the poor thrive if they got out "hot".
    It's all work too feeding cattle outside and can be dangerous if there are too many of them. Another reason I avoid it this time of the year. We are drawing meal since last July so a couple of months rest is no harm.

    No these never got meal until they were turned out paddy's day. Don't believe in feeding indoors. Tried it one year.
    There were dosed with ivomec super so hoping it will cover most things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭✭ brianb243


    Ration is cheaper not sure how many you have but you could geta 3 way mix of soya hulls, barley and maize for 240/ton. No need for protein when on grass. Not sure if I be keeping them to end of August/September price will be well dropped by then. If they are only putting less than a kg/day I would be inclined to push them to 4kg/day. They should be able to take 500grams ratrion/100kg LW with out reducing grass intake by much. I be pushing them on to sell by late July/early August. A 20c/kg drop in price will cost you 70-80 euro. That is about the equivlent of 16-20kgs DW in value hard to see cattle put all that on in 20-30 days at grass.

    Ig grass improves you can pull back to 2-3kgs/day. I prefer to feed at 3kgs for 90 days rather than 5kgs for 60 days. Cattle really thrive with a bit of ration during May-July, you need 2-3 times the amount in September to get same thrive. Feed to hand in late July and you will not go too far wrong.

    Going starting a similar bunch of cattle so I will try them on ration for the craic to see if there is a difference in weight gain.
    Aiming to get first bunch out by July at the latest to get premium price


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,908 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    brianb243 wrote: »
    No these never got meal until they were turned out paddy's day. Don't believe in feeding indoors. Tried it one year.
    There were dosed with ivomec super so hoping it will cover most things.

    Each to their own but unless you have fantastic silage their growth rate indoors will be low.
    Personally I’d feed indoors, stop 4-6 weeks before turnout and you get compensationsry weight gain from grass.

    Other than calves we don’t feed meal at grass until maybe August when grass has turned a bit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭ Muckit


    _Brian wrote: »
    Each to their own but unless you have fantastic silage their growth rate indoors will be low.
    Personally I’d feed indoors, stop 4-6 weeks before turnout and you get compensationsry weight gain from grass.

    Other than calves we don’t feed meal at grass until maybe August when grass has turned a bit.

    This tread is in relation to finishing cattle _Brian, not stores. Feeding meal to finishing cattle indoors as opposed to at grass is the question


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭ Dunedin


    brianb243 wrote: »
    Weighed them paddy's day(day turned out) and may bank holiday and they were putting on between .5 and .9 kgs per day. Thought they should be up on 1.3kg per day. Agree?
    Which do you think is better.....nuts or a ration mix?

    Factoring in that they will take time to adjust to getting out to grass, probably only break even for the first month, the weight gain above is bang on I’d say.

    Weigh them again June bank holiday and then let us know how they get on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭ Cavanjack


    brianb243 wrote: »
    No these never got meal until they were turned out paddy's day. Don't believe in feeding indoors. Tried it one year.
    There were dosed with ivomec super so hoping it will cover most things.

    We all run different systems (none of them perfect) but I'd prefer to supplement when cattle are in on silage rather that when they get out to grass in the spring. Cattle can do a serious thrive on spring grass alone if conditions are right and Your's will probably pick up thrive as they get time goes on. Had friesian yearling bullocks do .98kg a day last year on grass alone for 200 days. I'm sure if Yours are weighed mid summer they will have surpassed this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,166 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Dunedin wrote: »
    Factoring in that they will take time to adjust to getting out to grass, probably only break even for the first month, the weight gain above is bang on I’d say.

    Weigh them again June bank holiday and then let us know how they get on.

    I would have to disagree. now I have an open shed rather than a hot house flower. When cattle hit grass( if they have it as in this year) they thrive fro the go. I expect cattle to do a kg/day on grass alone if they have plenty of it. Not happening this year. If they are only doing a bit with a 1/2 a kg/day it is hard to Continental cattle hitting enough to average over a kg/day for the first 60 days. Thrive is well below average this year due to lack of grass. I be feeding to compensate to slaughter early.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,908 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    Muckit wrote: »
    This tread is in relation to finishing cattle _Brian, not stores. Feeding meal to finishing cattle indoors as opposed to at grass is the question

    My bad, as often my train of thought wandered off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭✭ brianb243


    Weighed same bunch this bank holidayJune 2nd) a month after weighing them previously.....a huge difference. One bullock went from 712kgs to 794kg in a month. I weighed him twice, no word of a lie. Average gain across the board was 1.9kg per day. Very happy


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭ Dickie10


    anyone start meal finshing heifers or bullocks at grass yet? i have 26 continental heifers around 25-27 months old now is it too early to start?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭ Cavanjack


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    anyone start meal finshing heifers or bullocks at grass yet? i have 26 continental heifers around 25-27 months old now is it too early to start?

    I wouldn’t usually start feeding bullocks for another month at least as there is still plenty of power in the grass.
    Saying that for the last two years I fed bullocks from mid may that were 30 months in July/august. They fattened very fast although the weight wasn’t in them compared to the cattle going from September on but they probably left as much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭ richie123


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    anyone start meal finshing heifers or bullocks at grass yet? i have 26 continental heifers around 25-27 months old now is it too early to start?

    I have ...despite my best efforts not to,cold wet weather is a disaster


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,166 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Dickie10 wrote: »
    anyone start meal finshing heifers or bullocks at grass yet? i have 26 continental heifers around 25-27 months old now is it too early to start?

    I always start to pick out from early May. I base it on age and condition. You also have to factor in weight against weight gain.
    On age and condition as QA can significantly influence price you start to pick out cattle that may be way under FS it cattle that are significantly heave where QA is gauranteed or not an issue.

    Two examples. A Hereford bullock will not be 30 months until end of August he is on ration for 3 weeks bought late last October for 470 euro at 350 kgs. If he grades O+ 3- at 320 kgs @4/ kg he will gross 1280...I think he will leave a small profit . If I lose the HE bonus and the QA drops to 8 c/ kg it's a 90 euro difference.

    CH bullock April 18, bought at 480 kgs for 780 last year if he hangs 380 kgs @4/ kg it's 1520 euro. If I hold him two months longer and the price drops 20/ kg it's 76 euro. He has to
    Add 20kgsmin DW to break even before grass costs are added

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭ cacs


    What would you advise me. I have 10 store bullocks two store heifers. The bullocks were weighed about a month ago. The heaviest was around 570kg the lightest was around 480kg. Heifers around 400 kg. They are 18 months old. Mostly u grade lim. They are going into 1400 kg dm covers and cows are coming after when cover hits around 1000. The cattle are on fire doing really well. I was planning on holding them until the first week in September. And start nuting them from mid July with around 4kg of ration. I think the heaviest will hit 700kg plus the lightest will be over 600 kg the heifers should be 500kg plus. My question would you keep them that long.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,166 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    cacs wrote: »
    What would you advise me. I have 10 store bullocks two store heifers. The bullocks were weighed about a month ago. The heaviest was around 570kg the lightest was around 480kg. Heifers around 400 kg. They are 18 months old. Mostly u grade lim. They are going into 1400 kg dm covers and cows are coming after when cover hits around 1000. The cattle are on fire doing really well. I was planning on holding them until the first week in September. And start nuting them from mid July with around 4kg of ration. I think the heaviest will hit 700kg plus the lightest will be over 600 kg the heifers should be 500kg plus. My question would you keep them that long.

    You are s way too technical for me. My game is to buy sh!t average or below average cattle and turn a margin on them. The examples I have earlier were extreme's on a finishing bunch 25.

    You are trying to be technically efficient ( we were posting about it on the grazing thread) I am just a slightly below average trader

    Just as a matter of interest, where did your farming interest come from. Did you inherit or buy your land.

    The final question is are you interested in profitability or what the farm and cattle look like

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭ cacs


    You are s way too technical for me. My game is to buy sh!t average or below average cattle and turn a margin on them. The examples I have earlier were extreme's on a finishing bunch 25.

    You are trying to be technically efficient ( we were posting about it on the grazing thread) I am just a slightly below average trader

    Just as a matter of interest, where did your farming interest come from. Did you inherit or buy your land.

    The final question is are you interested in profitability or what the farm and cattle look like

    Has Bass. I am laughing here to myself. I thinking I have been analysed by a phycologist . I was posting on the other thread as well. Same motivation I suppose. Honestly I don’t care how the cattle look. I am only interested how they perform. My goal with this bunch of stores was to get the as close to finish as possible. But it has been a hard spring summer to date an I am really working for it. I have a small west of ireland farm that I took over from my father. I keep 20 suckler cows and sell the stores at 18-22 months. My goal is get them as heavy as I can with as little nuts as I can. What ever I do from work to the land is analysed. I cannot do any other way if I can’t put it paper and see the progress I don’t do it. I could farm an awful lot simpler and easier but if it’s not efficient And done to max I have no interest in it. It’s just the way I am cut. This way of doing it is not for everyone. But I get an unreal kick out doing this way.

    What I am trying to figure out will it pay to keep them and feed them or off load now. Grass is cheap they may eat around €100-120 worth of ration. But will I be paid when the factories cut the price and and the price in mart falls also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,166 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    cacs wrote: »
    Has Bass. I am laughing here to myself. I thinking I have been analysed by a phycologist . I was posting on the other thread as well. Same motivation I suppose. Honestly I don’t care how the cattle look. I am only interested how they perform. My goal with this bunch of stores was to get the as close to finish as possible. But it has been a hard spring summer to date an I am really working for it. I have a small west of ireland farm that I took over from my father. I keep 20 suckler cows and sell the stores at 18-22 months. My goal is get them as heavy as I can with as little nuts as I can. What ever I do from work to the land is analysed. I cannot do any other way if I can’t put it paper and see the progress I don’t do it. I could farm an awful lot simpler and easier but if it’s not efficient And done to max I have no interest in it. It’s just the way I am cut. This way of doing it is not for everyone. But I get an unreal kick out doing this way.

    What I am trying to figure out will it pay to keep them and feed them or off load now. Grass is cheap they may eat around €100-120 worth of ration. But will I be paid when the factories cut the price and and the price in mart falls also.

    It's a bit like crystal ball grazing what way prices are in early September this year. Will prices hold or not. There is a risk that processor's will start to create panic by hitting prices around the edges of what cattle are there. For example hitting those heavy cattle over 420 kgs DW just like they are trying to pull cow price at present. However Quality cattle are tight I saw an AA heifer 600 kgs make 1400 yesterday in Gortnalea that's 4.5/ kg.

    Its very hard to finish them Continental cattle at a young age. However if you are going to trying to kill off grass is the best hope. You can buy i
    Barley maize hulls as ration blown into a bin for 270/280/ ton. Feed at 3 kgs for 13 weeks that will cost you 73 euro/ head if holding them to end of August. I would buy minerals as well and throw 50-60 grams/ head kg of it on top of the ration for the next 7-8 weeks.

    Depending on how they are looking you can add another 1-2 kgs for August. In general it's hard to get fat cover on some of those Continental bullocks especially if off Continental cows that why you need to drop the protein in the ration. You could feed a beef nut or ration for the first 4-6 weeks but I be change to barley hulls maize mix for the last 7-8 weeks

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭ Dunedin



    CH bullock April 18, bought at 480 kgs for 780 last year if he hangs 380 kgs @4/ kg it's 1520 euro.

    That’s a very poor kill for a bullock heading for 40 months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,166 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Dunedin wrote: »
    That’s a very poor kill for a bullock heading for 40 months.

    He was 470 when he was bought last September. He got nothing but grass and silage over the winter. Went on ration three weeks ago. Maybe he kill a bit heavier maybe not. That's allowing him to have put on 220 kgs LW.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭ Dickie10


    bullocks will surpise you, the last two of my own suckler bred bull yearlings i had them cut and kept them and finished with the heifers they came into over 1600 last september with bad prices around 29 months old. love to be killing my own bred cattle ideally but cant and wont with work commitments.


  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭ cacs


    It's a bit like crystal ball grazing what way prices are in early September this year. Will prices hold or not. There is a risk that processor's will start to create panic by hitting prices around the edges of what cattle are there. For example hitting those heavy cattle over 420 kgs DW just like they are trying to pull cow price at present. However Quality cattle are tight I saw an AA heifer 600 kgs make 1400 yesterday in Gortnalea that's 4.5/ kg.

    Its very hard to finish them Continental cattle at a young age. However if you are going to trying to kill off grass is the best hope. You can buy i
    Barley maize hulls as ration blown into a bin for 270/280/ ton. Feed at 3 kgs for 13 weeks that will cost you 73 euro/ head if holding them to end of August. I would buy minerals as well and throw 50-60 grams/ head kg of it on top of the ration for the next 7-8 weeks.

    Depending on how they are looking you can add another 1-2 kgs for August. In general it's hard to get fat cover on some of those Continental bullocks especially if off Continental cows that why you need to drop the protein in the ration. You could feed a beef nut or ration for the first 4-6 weeks but I be change to barley hulls maize mix for the last 7-8 weeks

    Thanks Bass great advice


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭ Dunedin



    Its very hard to finish them Continental cattle at a young age. However if you are going to trying to kill off grass is the best hope. You can buy i
    Barley maize hulls as ration blown into a bin for 270/280/ ton. Feed at 3 kgs for 13 weeks that will cost you 73 euro/ head if holding them to end of August. I would buy minerals as well and throw 50-60 grams/ head kg of it on top of the ration for the next 7-8 weeks.

    Depending on how they are looking you can add another 1-2 kgs for August. In general it's hard to get fat cover on some of those Continental bullocks especially if off Continental cows that why you need to drop the protein in the ration. You could feed a beef nut or ration for the first 4-6 weeks but I be change to barley hulls maize mix for the last 7-8 weeks

    All continental cattle here (limo from limo cross cows) and I have no issue to finish all steers/heifers at circa 29 months off the grass with average of 2kg of bull power nuts for max 7 weeks. I certainly wouldn’t recommend feeding for 13 weeks - more for a shorter burst is better than less for a longer period.

    Granted they’re on good land but good grass management is key. Paddocks and regular moving. I’ve never had an issue finishing at that age. Generally kill last week of July and they’d be January/feb calves.


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