Lower handicap or win more?

GreeBo

Why do you play competitive/qualifying golf?

dan_ep82

Win competitions

You can play a comp to have fun and get cut, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Seems like you might just have an agenda here

prawnsambo

Win competitions

Yeah. I try to do both. Lower my handicap and win. They usually both come together because I need to put in a score better than my handicap to win a compeititon, so I will get cut.

Mantis Toboggan

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For me at the moment is definitely to improve and get as low as possible but I'd imagine that when I'm older and in my 40's, where improvement is unlikely then I'll be happy enough with whatever handicap I feel comfortable with and try win a few comps.

redzerdrog

To compete is the main reason for me hcap lowering and winning go hand in hand really.

In casual golf you are competing against the course and maybe your playing partners

In qualifying golf you are competing against everyone in the field but also competing against the standard scratch for that day to ensure you are not getting 0.1 added to your hcap

Russman

For me its to try to get as low as I can and its also nice to feel you're in a competition, it is sport after all and they do keep a score. I've no interest in prizes to be honest, they're nice and usually follow if you're reducing the handicap, but most of the time I'd happily take 40pts and not winning over 36pts and coming first. Obviously it might be different in a scratch cup or the Captains Prize or something.

callaway92

Enjoyment, score & handicap are irrelevant

Would be nice to have to results of the poll public

rickis tache

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never bothered what I win as long as I get cut.

OEP

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It's all about getting cut

slave1

GreeBo wrote: »

Why do you play competitive/qualifying golf?

Why have you closed the poll results to just yourself?

mike12

Enjoyment, score and handicap.
U can't control winning a prize, some days it will happen with a score u don't expect others u won't be near the prizes.

I should u shouldn't be able to control winning a prize, which is what the opening poster is getting at I think.

kiers47

Enjoyment. Mainly.
If the others go with it then that is great. Who doesn't enjoy winning. It seems by some people in golf that winning is frowned upon. (Be it sour grapes or what not)

If they don't i couldn't really care less. Once i am enjoying it ill keep playing. If i start to not enjoy it anymore ill likely hang up the clubs and try something else.

Kiith

Enjoyment, score & handicap are irrelevant

I'd lie if i said winning wasn't a goal of mine, but i wouldn't play if i didn't enjoy it. And currently, getting my handicap lower will be the result of me improving my game, which will hopefully help me win.

So all of the above for me

GreeBo

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slave1 wrote: »

Why have you closed the poll results to just yourself?

Because I don't want votes influencing each others.

GreeBo

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dan_ep82 wrote: »

You can play a comp to have fun and get cut, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Seems like you might just have an agenda here

No agenda, just want to see what people say their goals are, because in my experience their stated goals dont match how they approach the game.

plumber77

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Every time I play I'm trying to improve. Have stalled at 10 for the last year or so. Enjoy the challenge of working out what I need to improve to get to single figures. If in the process I win a few things that'll be even better. We all like to win I would imagine.

prawnsambo

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GreeBo wrote: »

No agenda, just want to see what people say their goals are, because in my experience their stated goals dont match how they approach the game.

Well your poll demonstrates a preconceived idea in your own mind as to what motivates people playing golf. Apparently you can either want to win or want to improve or just want to have a nice day out. You can't want any two or even all three.

I chose the handicap option, but as I said, I also want to win. I'm competitive. I also enjoy playing even if I'm not playing well. Because golf is a game that you can always take positives from. But I don't exist in your poll.

frink

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Priority for me is getting to my lowest possible handicap and enjoying it the priority for me. Winning is a nice feeling when it happens particularly in one of the big comps (Capts) or Medal. Granted I've yet to win a big comp!

GreeBo

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prawnsambo wrote: »

Well your poll demonstrates a preconceived idea in your own mind as to what motivates people playing golf. Apparently you can either want to win or want to improve or just want to have a nice day out. You can't want any two or even all three.

I chose the handicap option, but as I said, I also want to win. I'm competitive. I also enjoy playing even if I'm not playing well. Because golf is a game that you can always take positives from.

Sorry but it doesnt.
The poll is designed to find your primary motivation, be that lowest handicap, winning or enjoyment.

No one is saying that you can only have one motivation.

prawnsambo wrote: »

But I don't exist in your poll.

:rolleyes:

If you are honestly trying to tell us that you are exactly equally motivated by the 3 options in the poll then your vote is irrelevant anyway.

GreeBo

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redzerdrog wrote: »

hcap lowering and winning go hand in hand really.

I disagree with this 100%.

redzerdrog wrote: »

In casual golf you are competing against the course and maybe your playing partners

The poll is purely about handicap qualifying golf, how you approach casual golf is irrelevant. (to the poll)

prawnsambo

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GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry but it doesnt.
The poll is designed to find your primary motivation, be that lowest handicap, winning or enjoyment.

No one is saying that you can only have one motivation.

That poll is. The word primary or any of its synonyms does not appear in the poll question. And my primary reason for taking up golf again after many years was because I found it surprisingly therapeutic for an old injury.

GreeBo wrote: »

If you are honestly trying to tell us that you are exactly equally motivated by the 3 options in the poll then your vote is irrelevant anyway.

Irrelevant how? Unless you have a preconceived idea as to why people play golf, any response should be useful data.

And I answered the poll as honestly as I could, despite the fact that the question I selected didn't accurately reflect my reasons. I play to improve. That improvement can be measured by my handicap, but not always.

redzerdrog

Coming up the 18th in a captains prize and you are one shot ahead of your playing partner and the two of you well clear of the field. You are just trying to equal or better the score that person.
Anyone trying to get a par so to ensure a bigger cut is talking absolute bollox, golf is a sport and sport is about competition.

Scoring 40 points and coming 5th or scoring 36 and winning. 36 and winning all day long as you are beating every other competitor and standard scratch on that day

slave1

I used to think about lowering my handicap but my course has a lot of difficult par 3's so I started laying up on them and then my game went to tatters

GreeBo

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prawnsambo wrote: »

That poll is. The word primary or any of its synonyms does not appear in the poll question.

The word primary doesnt need to exist in the question since you can only choose one answer. Its kinda implied, sorry if this somehow wasn't clear or confused you.

prawnsambo wrote: »

Irrelevant how? Unless you have a preconceived idea as to why people play golf, any response should be useful data.

No, its irrelevant because I, as the person constructing the poll am looking for information on the primary reason people play golf, someone choosing all three answers adds nothing to the data that I am looking for/at.

Multiple answers per respondent are of no benefit to me, especially a person choosing them all.
I'm sure there would be all sorts of terribly interesting statistics you could draw with the same poll and allowing multiple choices, but I'm not gathering stats on the number of people responding or the turnout, I'm gathering stats on the primary reason why people play golf.

GreeBo

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redzerdrog wrote: »

Coming up the 18th in a captains prize and you are one shot ahead of your playing partner and the two of you well clear of the field. You are just trying to equal or better the score that person.
Anyone trying to get a par so to ensure a bigger cut is talking absolute bollox, golf is a sport and sport is about competition.

I would counter that you dont have to play with the same primary motivation every day. During a specific competition (Captains prize, scratch cup, West of Ireland) the goal is to beat everyone else. Its likely that if you do you will get cut, however its also likely that if you dont you will get 0.1 back due to your aggressive approach not paying off.

Playing to avoid the 0.1 can also mean winning or not in the short term, but likely longer term a lower handicap.

Equally, playing sport is about being the best, thats why we have order of merit and season long awards.

redzerdrog wrote: »

Scoring 40 points and coming 5th or scoring 36 and winning. 36 and winning all day long as you are beating every other competitor and standard scratch on that day

So your primary motivation is winning, thats fine, others have a different view.

prawnsambo

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GreeBo wrote: »

The word primary doesnt need to exist in the question since you can only choose one answer. Its kinda implied, sorry if this somehow wasn't clear or confused you.

No, its irrelevant because I, as the person constructing the poll am looking for information on the primary reason people play golf, someone choosing all three answers adds nothing to the data that I am looking for/at.

Multiple answers per respondent are of no benefit to me, especially a person choosing them all.
I'm sure there would be all sorts of terribly interesting statistics you could draw with the same poll and allowing multiple choices, but I'm not gathering stats on the number of people responding or the turnout, I'm gathering stats on the primary reason why people play golf.

Yeah, I see what you're looking for, but for the life of me, I can't see how you're going to get anything of value from it.

Like I'm not sure that people would say that they play golf to get a lower handicap per se. That's a by-product of playing well and improving. I would think everyone would like to improve how they play the game. Even if it's small improvements or even just one type of shot that they can master.

And golf (like most individual sports) is a game that you largely play against yourself. So your handicap is a measure of your development as a player, not a goal in itself. Or at least that's the way I see it.

ridonkulous

You need a new hobby

harpsman

Seems that the some of the younger,good golfers are obsessed with getting their handicap as low as possible, and try to avoid .1s at all cost.

Then there are some bandits who want to get their handicap as high as possible to give them a better chance in team comps and off season.

I think most people are in the middle, initially your primary aim is to get your golf as good as possible to get your handicap as low as you can; once they plateau at a certain handicap are happy enough if their handicap doesnt move and they pick up the odd prize.
Obviously i see alot of people here are only motivated by lowering their handicap-fair play, im probably not principled enough.

redzerdrog

GreeBo wrote: »

I would counter that you dont have to play with the same primary motivation every day. During a specific competition (Captains prize, scratch cup, West of Ireland) the goal is to beat everyone else. Its likely that if you do you will get cut, however its also likely that if you dont you will get 0.1 back due to your aggressive approach not paying off.

Playing to avoid the 0.1 can also mean winning or not in the short term, but likely longer term a lower handicap.

Equally, playing sport is about being the best, thats why we have order of merit and season long awards.



So your primary motivation is winning, thats fine, others have a different view.

But not often in a position to win so therefore the motivation is hcap maintance as I am trying to not get 0.1, thus instead of motivation being either winning or to improve hcap on any given day that primary reason is to compete but ultimately winning will trump all as that is why we play sport

GreeBo

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prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah, I see what you're looking for, but for the life of me, I can't see how you're going to get anything of value from it.

Like I'm not sure that people would say that they play golf to get a lower handicap per se. That's a by-product of playing well and improving. I would think everyone would like to improve how they play the game. Even if it's small improvements or even just one type of shot that they can master.

And golf (like most individual sports) is a game that you largely play against yourself. So your handicap is a measure of your development as a player, not a goal in itself. Or at least that's the way I see it.

Youd be surprised at what people will vote, I'll post the results when the poll is closed.

What I hope to get is an Indocin of the primary reason prime play competitive golf. Note that I'm specifically taking competitive golf, casual golf is totally different

Well if the goal is to get better and a handicap is how you measure ability, I think a lower handicap is the goal for these people?

GreeBo

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redzerdrog wrote: »

But not often in a position to win so therefore the motivation is hcap maintance as I am trying to not get 0.1, thus instead of motivation being either winning or to improve hcap on any given day that primary reason is to compete but ultimately winning will trump all as that is why we play sport

I'm afraid you've lost me here.:o

blue note

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I voted to lower my handicap, because on a bad day I'd be relieved to not get .1 back. Or on a good day I'd still like a cut even if I don't feature in the prizes. That said if you offered me a win and a .6 cut or a 5th place and a 1.2 cut I'd definitely take the win. Not because I want to avoid the cut,but because I rather the idea of being the best of 100 people than being 5th best. The score isn't the most important thing.

RoadRunner

Enjoyment, score & handicap are irrelevant

1 and 2 not mutually exclusive.

I play for both the chance to win and the change to work on HC.

(For the record if I had the chance to win with 36pts or also win with 41pts for the same, I'll go with the 41pts all day )

GreeBo

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RoadRunner wrote: »

1 and 2 not mutually exclusive.

I play for both the chance to win and the change to work on HC.

(For the record if I had the chance to win with 36pts or also win with 41pts for the same, I'll go with the 41pts all day )

Not exclusive, but one is the primary driver of why you enter a qualifying comp.
Would you rather a cut and not feature or win a prize with no cut?
Answer that and you have your choice!

redzerdrog

Win with no cut

(Is that actually possible)

Actually just reread and said win a prize. Prizes mean little in the scheme of thing but the win the comp with no cut absolutely. Id take a cut over Winning a token prize for finishing 3rd in category

blue note

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GreeBo wrote: »

Not exclusive, but one is the primary driver of why you enter a qualifying comp.
Would you rather a cut and not feature or win a prize with no cut?
Answer that and you have your choice!

I'd consider your performance relative to your competitors to be the best indicator of your performance on a day. You can get a bigger cut because conditions on a day were easy. But if the winning score is 36 points, you could have been the best player out of a hundred, but be looking at as little as no cut.

GreeBo

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blue note wrote: »

I'd consider your performance relative to your competitors to be the best indicator of your performance on a day. You can get a bigger cut because conditions on a day were easy. But if the winning score is 36 points, you could have been the best player out of a hundred, but be looking at as little as no cut.

You get a bigger cut because conditions are hard, not easy!

The cut you get is relative to how everyone else played, I.e. CSS

I don't get your last point, if you win with 36 points you'll most likely also get a cut since CSS would be less than 36? CSS could be 33 on the day, that will get you the same cut as shooting 39 on a CSS day.

GreeBo

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redzerdrog wrote: »

Win with no cut

(Is that actually possible)

Actually just reread and said win a prize. Prizes mean little in the scheme of thing but the win the comp with no cut absolutely. Id take a cut over Winning a token prize for finishing 3rd in category

Ok, so for you winning the competition is more important than getting better at golf?
(Which is fine btw)
You can win a couple of comps a year and be on the same handicap for years.

redzerdrog

GreeBo wrote: »

Ok, so for you winning the competition is more important than getting better at golf?
(Which is fine btw)
You can win a couple of comps a year and be on the same handicap for years.

Id like to do both but ultimately in a single competition id like the win. That maybe due to the fact I have never won a club (singles) competition. Priorities could change then, but still think the competitive side of me would still opt for the win.

One senerio could change it though if I had set myself a goal of single figures and was close to that then the cut would win out.

Corkblowin

Enjoyment, score & handicap are irrelevant

I play to win - why else enter competitions? Having said that I play very few singles Stableford comps - only the medals and majors in the club & the rest Scratch cups - winning a competition where no handicap comes into it is more satisfying (to me). My current handicap (5.9) is the highest it’s been for nearly 15 years, but doesn’t bother me as much as I thought it might.

blackwhite

My priority can change during a round. Ultimately, I want to enjoy myself, and keep improving my game. I find that my focus is better in a comp, and it’s a test of how I’m progressing my game.
Handicap and a chance to win are consequences (and to a degree measures) of that.

That said, if after 8/9 holes I see I’m in with a chance of a good score, it can change how I approach decisions over the rest of the round

GreeBo

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Corkblowin wrote: »

I play to win - why else enter competitions? Having said that I play very few singles Stableford comps - only the medals and majors in the club & the rest Scratch cups - winning a competition where no handicap comes into it is more satisfying (to me). My current handicap (5.9) is the highest it’s been for nearly 15 years, but doesn’t bother me as much as I thought it might.

You might enter it because it's currently the only way to get cut!

Corkblowin

Enjoyment, score & handicap are irrelevant

GreeBo wrote: »

You might enter it because it's currently the only way to get cut!

Yes - but in answer to your poll I play to win - handicap dropping is a byproduct of going out with the aim of winning - trying to avoid 0.1 seems like a negative approach to me.

I haven’t been able to play or practice as much as I used to - but continuing to play the tougher comps with the tougher course set-ups has meant handicap increases. I used to think it would bother me (got to 3.5 at one point), but turns out it doesn’t - not being in contention bothers me more.

FixdePitchmark

I can't answer the question as they both go together for me.

If you go out and improve significantly - your handicap will drop and you will win. If you win - your handicap should drop.
I do like to try win anything I'm in. anything.

The handicap is a useful indicator and test of how good you are at golf. It is a long term and an accurate enough standard of how you did at the game. It isn't 100% accurate - due to club, course, variety of golf you play. A guy off say 9 in one club - wouldn't be near a 12 in another. You can also get to a certain handicap - and be nowhere near as good as a player on an equal handicap. You can be off an equal handicap - but be useless under pressure or in say a matchplay event. You can be of the same handicap as another guy and - have a very very limited game.
Handicap is only one part of getting good at golf.

Sorry that is a tangent.

There are so many reasons I play golf. I don't have a primary one.

GreeBo

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Corkblowin wrote: »

Yes - but in answer to your poll I play to win - handicap dropping is a byproduct of going out with the aim of winning - trying to avoid 0.1 seems like a negative approach to [.

There is a big difference between getting cut for winning versus trying to generally lower your handicap.

Going for wins means an occasional large cut with mostly 0.1s in between. Going for a lower handicap means occasional smaller cuts with mostly no 0.1s in between.

I believe the first approach results in you generally staying on the same handicap but featuring sometimes. The second approach will lead to an overall lower handicap and probably fewer wins.
Basically much more consistent scoring.

In my experience most people play using the first approach but state their goal is to lower their handicap/ get better.

GreeBo

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FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I can't answer the question as they both go together for me.

If you go out and improve significantly - your handicap will drop and you will win. If you win - your handicap should drop.
I do like to try win anything I'm in. anything.

The handicap is a useful indicator and test of how good you are at golf. It is a long term and an accurate enough standard of how you did at the game. It isn't 100% accurate - due to club, course, variety of golf you play. A guy off say 9 in one club - wouldn't be near a 12 in another. You can also get to a certain handicap - and be nowhere near as good as a player on an equal handicap. You can be off an equal handicap - but be useless under pressure or in say a matchplay event. You can be of the same handicap as another guy and - have a very very limited game.
Handicap is only one part of getting good at golf.

Sorry that is a tangent.

There are so many reasons I play golf. I don't have a primary one.

Relative handicaps are irrelevant. Your handicap is how you measure your own performance over time.

Rikand

slave1 wrote: »

Why have you closed the poll results to just yourself?

Classic Greebo :pac:

Montgolfier

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GreeBo wrote: »

I would counter that you dont have to play with the same primary motivation every day. During a specific competition (Captains prize, scratch cup, West of Ireland) the goal is to beat everyone else. Its likely that if you do you will get cut, however its also likely that if you dont you will get 0.1 back due to your aggressive approach not paying off.

Playing to avoid the 0.1 can also mean winning or not in the short term, but likely longer term a lower handicap.

Equally, playing sport is about being the best, thats why we have order of merit and season long awards.



So your primary motivation is winning, thats fine, others have a different view.

I love this last quote (reminds me when my Mrs says that's fine!), not at all judgemental .
Which was why you didn't want to publish the results.
Let's face it anyone who says they play to pad their hcp and win competitions will be slated!! So what can you expect the result to say.
By the way I'm not one of them just making a smart ass comment. (similar thread a couple of weeks ago)

GreeBo

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Montgolfier wrote: »

I love this last quote (reminds me when my Mrs says that's fine!), not at all judgemental .
Which was why you didn't want to publish the results.
Let's face it anyone who says they play to pad their hcp and win competitions will be slated!! So what can you expect the result to say.
By the way I'm not one of them just making a smart ass comment. (similar thread a couple of weeks ago)

Is not judgemental, people play for different reasons, hence the poll.

No, I've already said I will publish the results when the poll is closed.
Is hidden now to get more accurate results.

There is no option related to padding handicaps to win...I think you are imagining something that doesn't exist...unless is a guilty conscience?:eek:

GreeBo

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FixdePitchmark wrote: »

There are so many reasons I play golf. I don't have a primary one.

Your multiple threads/blogs/posts about getting to scratch would lead me to believe otherwise!

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

There is a big difference between getting cut for winning versus trying to generally lower your handicap.

Going for wins means an occasional large cut with mostly 0.1s in between. Going for a lower handicap means occasional smaller cuts with mostly no 0.1s in between.

I believe the first approach results in you generally staying on the same handicap but featuring sometimes. The second approach will lead to an overall lower handicap and probably fewer wins.
Basically much more consistent scoring.

In my experience most people play using the first approach but state their goal is to lower their handicap/ get better.

I've never come across anyone who thought about their golf in that fashion tbh. I don't believe for a second that an amateur golfer has an approach to the game to try to win and another approach to the game to try and get cut. Anyone I've ever seen or known sees both winning and getting cut as a by-product of simply playing well on a given day. I doubt anyone is clairvoyant enough to think ".....38pts will get me the win, but if I go for this green I might make 40 which will get a bigger cut"
And nobody (assuming their handicap is even close to the right ballpark) is good enough to mostly not get 0.1s no matter how defensively they play IMO.