Irish Rail fine appeal(forgot my student ID)

IrishGrimReaper

Hey folks, just looking to see if anyone else has had a similar experience.

On 15th March I travelled from Galway - Dublin return with a student ticket. I forgot my student ID and got a fine on the return to Galway, he told me I could appeal it and send a scan of my ID and they would waive the fine. As soon as I got in the door I sent a scan of my ID long with the fine to them.

They got back to me today and want to uphold a €50 fine, I've sent them another email hoping they'll remove it fully. Also I see that the fines seem to be €100 + the ticket price, the incorrect amount of shown on my fine €136.65; the ticket cost €22.98

Jamie2k9

IrishGrimReaper wrote: »

Hey folks, just looking to see if anyone else has had a similar experience.

On 15th March I travelled from Galway - Dublin return with a student ticket. I forgot my student ID and got a fine on the return to Galway, he told me I could appeal it and send a scan of my ID and they would waive the fine. As soon as I got in the door I sent a scan of my ID long with the fine to them.

They got back to me today and want to uphold a €50 fine, I've sent them another email hoping they'll remove it fully. Also I see that the fines seem to be €100 + the ticket price, the incorrect amount of shown on my fine €136.65; the ticket cost €22.98

If you don't have student ID you are fined 100 + the Adult fare not the student fare which is 36.65.

Its the first case I have heard that you can scan and email a copy, I guess the 50 is more less a goodwill gesture given your a student.

While you forgot your ID, when you booked online you pressed ok acknowledging you had ID.

MOH

There seems to be a general pattern of the ticket inspector just lying so they don't have to deal with any hassle.
I've seen at least three threads over the last year or so where someone was told that the fine would be waived on appeal, and when they appealed that was ignored.

goingnowhere

You must present the ID at time of inspection
The T&C's very clearly state this and no refund will be given if the ID is presented later
Fine is valid.

IrishGrimReaper

Damn that sucks. Thanks anyway guys, may as well just pay it.

AlekSmart

MOH wrote: »

There seems to be a general pattern of the ticket inspector just lying so they don't have to deal with any hassle.
I've seen at least three threads over the last year or so where someone was told that the fine would be waived on appeal, and when they appealed that was ignored.

Depending on the individual circumstances,Standard or Penalty Fares can,and are waived after appeal processes.

Suggesting that Revenue Protection Staff are lying,to avoid "hassle" is not remotely sustainable,or correct.
Revenue Protection,of itself,daily engages with lying,and liars,and is far from a hassle free environment,but that comes with the territory,which is well known when the applicants enter the selection process.

It may also be worth bearing in mind that the Appeals process itself is not conducted by the Revenue Inspectors themselves,whose only involvement is the report they submit.

Anybody with an interest in how the Revenue Protection process works,has a golden opportunity coming up with Go-Ahead Dublin.....

https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/careers/operations-team/

Revenue Protection Officers (Planned Recruitment - July)

I'm not sure if a lying module will be on their training course.....

MOH

AlekSmart wrote: »

Depending on the individual circumstances,Standard or Penalty Fares can,and are waived after appeal processes.

Suggesting that Revenue Protection Staff are lying,to avoid "hassle" is not remotely sustainable,or correct.

I've read numerous threads (here and elsewhere) where Revenue Protection Staff have told people that their fine would definitely be waived if they presented certain details, and the fine was not later waived after they had presented those details.

In general, I consider making false statements to be a lie. And I have a zero tolerance approach when it comes to Irish Rail.

Jamie2k9

MOH wrote: »

I've read numerous threads (here and elsewhere) where Revenue Protection Staff have told people that their fine would definitely be waived if they presented certain details, and the fine was not later waived after they had presented those details.

In general, I consider making false statements to be a lie. And I have a zero tolerance approach when it comes to Irish Rail.

Unless you were there you cannot comment on what was a false statement or not.

They usually say you can appeal, I would be surprised if they gave a guarantee it would be dropped.

MOH

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Unless you were there you cannot comment on what was a false statement or not.

They usually say you can appeal, I would be surprised if they gave a guarantee it would be dropped.

I can actually comment on whatever I care to, thanks.

For cases I don't have personal knowledge of, I'm taking the word of the person reporting it at face value. This seems reasonable to me, given I've also witnessed incidents of Irish Rail lying to customers first hand.

I've also been personally outright lied to by a ticket inspector (not in a fine related incident) to avoid having to deal with an issue. IR just ignored that aspect of the complaint I subsequently made.

(Note that I'm not saying in this (or any similar) case that the OP's fine isn't valid.)

PlaneSpeeking

I have had a Taxsaver for nearly 11 years now, Rail plus Bus/LUAS.

One year my HR Dept forgot to add the LUAS. I only found out when it was checked by Revenue Protection Officers.

I was fined 45 euro but HR provided me a letter that it was their error and I genuinely believed I had the right ticket. Fine was rescinded.

If the situation is with an ID - and that person can provide within say 7 days that they have that ID (predated before the incident) I believe the fine should be rescinded there also.

Jamie2k9

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I have had a Taxsaver for nearly 11 years now, Rail plus Bus/LUAS.

One year my HR Dept forgot to add the LUAS. I only found out when it was checked by Revenue Protection Officers.

I was fined 45 euro but HR provided me a letter that it was their error and I genuinely believed I had the right ticket. Fine was rescinded.

If the situation is with an ID - and that person can provide within say 7 days that they have that ID (predated before the incident) I believe the fine should be rescinded there also.

That was out of your control, ID is not, the thousands of students who travel weekly could all do that and then what kind of situation would you have.

PlaneSpeeking

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

That was out of your control, ID is not, the thousands of students who travel weekly could all do that and then what kind of situation would you have.

Good point!

HonalD

MOH wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Unless you were there you cannot comment on what was a false statement or not.

They usually say you can appeal, I would be surprised if they gave a guarantee it would be dropped.

I can actually comment on whatever I care to, thanks.

For cases I don't have personal knowledge of, I'm taking the word of the person reporting it at face value. This seems reasonable to me, given I've also witnessed incidents of Irish Rail lying to customers first hand.

I've also been personally outright lied to by a ticket inspector (not in a fine related incident) to avoid having to deal with an issue. IR just ignored that aspect of the complaint I subsequently made.

(Note that I'm not saying in this (or any similar) case that the OP's fine isn't valid.)

You can comment however you like, but that doesn’t make your comments factually correct.

Interesting that you are taking the word of anonymous posters on the internet and claiming it’s "reasonable" to state that IR staff are liars.

I’m sure you’re not the first person to get misleading (factually incorrect) information from somebody providing information to you or the public in general.

If we take the OPs claims at face value then the lesson is that we should consider the advice given by IR staff, research it ourselves and come to our own conclusions and take personal responsibility for our actions.

IrishGrimReaper

Anyway it's paid now as they were upholding the €50. Lesson learned stick with GoBus because unlike Irish Rail, they are not a crowd of c#nts.

PlaneSpeeking

IrishGrimReaper wrote: »

Anyway it's paid now as they we upholding the €50. Lesson learned stick with GoBus because unlike Irish Rail, they are not a crowd of c#nts.

The only issue I've had with Irish Rail (operationally) is them failing to display the seat reservations. Endless fun and games on busy trains!

MOH

HonalD wrote: »

You can comment however you like, but that doesn’t make your comments factually correct.

Interesting that you are taking the word of anonymous posters on the internet and claiming it’s "reasonable" to state that IR staff are liars.

I’m sure you’re not the first person to get misleading (factually incorrect) information from somebody providing information to you or the public in general.

If we take the OPs claims at face value then the lesson is that we should consider the advice given by IR staff, research it ourselves and come to our own conclusions and take personal responsibility for our actions.

What makes a comment factually correct is where it's based on fact, and is correct. You may choose to believe it or not, that's up to you, but is utterly irrelevant.

I've been lied to by IR staff. I have seen IR staff lie to other people. I have been told by people I know personally and trust that IR staff have lied to them. I've raised complaints with IR customer service about IR staff clearly and deliberately lying to me, and had those ignored.
It's therefore hardly a massive leap to believe "anonymous internet posters" who claim to have been lied to by IR staff.

I'm not quite clear exactly what you consider the difference between "factually incorrect information" and lying - are you running for the White House? To me, if someone provides me with "factually incorrect information" on behalf of their employer, I provide them with evidence (sourced from their own employer) that their information is "factually incorrect", and they continue to wilfully insist on their "factually incorrect information" because it makes their life easier - I tend to save time by just calling them liars.

If you have to personally research any advice given to you by IR staff and draw your own conclusions then it would seem to me that those staff are somewhat extraneous - if someone in a job which involves giving passengers advice is so unreliable that said passengers have to verify that advice themselves, then may as well hand every passenger a copy of the relevant regulations and dispense with the staff.

Interesting that you mention taking personal responsibility though - that's one thing none of them will ever have to worry about. At the end of the day, passengers are the only ones who suffer any consequences.