New build - EV ready charing point

bifl

Hi Folks,
 I'm in the middle of a self build and will be getting the house wiring done soon.  I have spec'd an outdoor socket but nothing more specific.  I'll have a HP on night rate as well, no electric showers.  What do I need at this point in terms or prepping for EV charging with both the electrician and the ESB.  
For the electrician at this point is it just 32A cable running to the outdoor point and then get it converted to a specific charging unit later.  
For the ESB will single phase still do it or do I need to move to three phase when applying for a connection

Thanks
Bifl

unkel

Yes to both questions. If it's a long run of cable 10mm2 is advised over the standard 6mm2 for 32A rating. If you don't have electric showers, then your standard 63A single phase connection is plenty if you have a 32A electric car charging. Even if you did have electric showers, a priority switch would temporarily stop the car charging while you're having a shower. Not an expensive solution either

Good luck with your new build! Did you considers solar PV and / or solar hot water for your roof? It's a lot cheaper to install while you are building than retrofitting.

dubrov

Do you own an EV yet? If so there is a grant available to install a charger (about 500 I think).

If not, if wait until you buy one and do the upgrade then

peposhi

While you are at it - run two cables and blank one for a future second charging point.

KCross

Make sure the electrician has a dedicated cable from that outdoor socket back to the distribution board.
(i.e. not tapped off another socket ring.)

And apply for the 16kVA connection from ESB (not the standard 12kVA).

bifl

Hi,
  No I don't have a car yet, but I'm just thinking that the routing of the wiring might as well be done now to the outside when airtightness works and testing has to come  Then later when I get an EV apply for the charging point and get the grant then.

I didn't go PV, really didn't see the paypback was there yet.  Like other renewable type stuff instead of doing it now and paying fully myself  there might be grants to retrofit in future.
So in short I need to run two 10m2 cables direct from the distribution board.  

On the ESB  I'm still a little confused, so for me to have capacity for a 32 A charger and say 12Kw HP, I apply for a 16kVA connection from the ESB , but the standard 63A single phase connection is fine?
Thanks for the fast feedback folks !!
Bifl

punisher5112

I would suggest running cable in red conduit like what esb uses.

Run it so it can be used for an extra run in the future.

Very handy to have it and place a small rope to pull cable at a later date if needs be.

KCross

bifl wrote: »

So in short I need to run two 10m2 cables direct from the distribution board.  

You need one for the charge point.
Why did you mention two? You could put in a second one to allow for two EV's to be charged in future, if thats what you meant?

bifl wrote: »

On the ESB  I'm still a little confused, so for me to have capacity for a 32 A charger and say 12Kw HP, I apply for a 16kVA connection from the ESB , but the standard 63A single phase connection is fine?

Yes.
The 16kVA ESB connection gives you an 80A fuse on the ESB side of the meter.
The 12kVA connection only gives you a 60A fuse.

Both will give you a singe phase connection.

The 63A fuse you are talking about is the one in the distribution board which is different to the ESB fuse. You need the 80A ESB fuse if you plan to run a 12kW rated HP and a 32A EV.

I would advise pre cabling for 3 phase and have it pre-cabled for 2nd 32 amp charge point, this is what I would do if building new and installing a heat pump.

Others might call it ott but I call it better to have it than want it.

Definitely the 16 KVa supply is essential.

3 phase will also allow you more renewable energy into the grid if you install solar PV in the future but I think we're many years away from domestic Feed-In-Tariff because priority goes to commercial wind farms but anyway, if the future allows a FIT then 3 phase will definitely be handy for that and 2 x 32 amp EV charging or possibly 20 Kw DC as these will get much cheaper in the years to come. But you can have 7 - 22 Kw AC charge points depending on the cars build in charger.

I got 3 phase line directly over the garden and a pole so it would only be a matter of installing a transformer on that pole and running the cable, easy peasy but it would cost.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

I would advise pre cabling for 3 phase and have it pre-cabled for 2nd 32 amp charge point, this is what I would do if building new and installing a heat pump.

Others might call it ott but I call it better to have it than want it.

Definitely the 16 KVa supply is essential.

3 phase will also allow you more renewable energy into the grid if you install solar PV in the future but I think we're many years away from domestic Feed-In-Tariff because priority goes to commercial wind farms but anyway, if the future allows a FIT then 3 phase will definitely be handy for that and 2 x 32 amp EV charging or possibly 20 Kw DC as these will get much cheaper in the years to come. But you can have 7 - 22 Kw AC charge points depending on the cars build in charger.

I got 3 phase line directly over the garden and a pole so it would only be a matter of installing a transformer on that pole and running the cable, easy peasy but it would cost.

Pre-cable the entire house for 3-phase?! That wouldnt be cheap in itself.

The chance of a self-build in the Irish countryside getting affordable access to 3-phase in our lifetime is very slim.

I'd say thats wasted money.

I'm not sure about that, a new build down the road had 3 phase installed because they installed a hp, now what else they have consuming the power I've no idea, perhaps a couple of 9 Kw showers too lol.

The ESb had to upgrade some poles and install new transformers so whether this was part of a maintenance plan and decided to do it while the power was off I've no idea , I don't know how expensive it was , not a lot if it's included in a new build along with heat pump I would imaging.

I reckon 3 phase will get a lot more common with new builds as people move more and more towards heat pumps and electric cars at least builders and electricians should make people aware of the potential power issues in the future or rather they should become aware of it themselves in the first place.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure about that, a new build down the road had 3 phase installed because they installed a hp, now what else they have consuming the power I've no idea, perhaps a couple of 9 Kw showers too lol.

The ESb had to upgrade some poles and install new transformers so whether this was part of a maintenance plan and decided to do it while the power was off I've no idea , I don't know how expensive it was , not a lot if it's included in a new build along with heat pump I would imaging.

I reckon 3 phase will get a lot more common with new builds as people move more and more towards heat pumps and electric cars at least builders and electricians should make people aware of the potential power issues in the future or rather they should become aware of it themselves in the first place.

The further away that the 3-Phase is from your house the more it will cost. Its many many thousands to get in.

A standard connection is a set, regulated fee and costs the same regardless of where you are located.

If, like you, the 3-phase power is next to your house already then it might be palatable but still expensive relative to a standard connection. The reality is that there arent 3-phase lines running up and down every road so unless the OP has checked that and knows its nearby its a waste of money wiring the house for it.

And ultimately, you dont need 3-phase even if you have a HP and EV. You would need to be pulling significant power to need 3-phase.... maybe a small workshop with heavy duty tools or a swimming pool or something!

creedp

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure about that, a new build down the road had 3 phase installed because they installed a hp, now what else they have consuming the power I've no idea, perhaps a couple of 9 Kw showers too lol.

The ESb had to upgrade some poles and install new transformers so whether this was part of a maintenance plan and decided to do it while the power was off I've no idea , I don't know how expensive it was , not a lot if it's included in a new build along with heat pump I would imaging.

I reckon 3 phase will get a lot more common with new builds as people move more and more towards heat pumps and electric cars at least builders and electricians should make people aware of the potential power issues in the future or rather they should become aware of it themselves in the first place.

I have a 12KW HP that runs at approx. 3KW or 13amps. That's a pretty big HP for hot water and space heating in a modern domestic house. In the future the focus will be on reducing the heating requirements of new houses by increasing insulation, air-tightness, solar gain, etc and so the electricity requirements to run HPs will reduce not increase in future. This demand will probably be replaced to some extent by EV charging, especially as we move to 2/3 EV households. However, I would have thought that with 32amp chargers and priority switches it should be possible to balance out demand to ensure most domestic houses could live with a single phase supply for a long while yet. Unless we all get infinitely more wealthy and it becomes the norm to have a heated swimming pool in the back garden!

unkel

Surely nobody would heat a swimming pool with electricity? :eek:

creedp

creedp wrote: »

I have a 12KW HP that runs at approx. 3KW or 13amps. That's a pretty big HP for hot water and space heating in a modern domestic house. In the future the focus will be on reducing the heating requirements of new houses by increasing insulation, air-tightness, solar gain, etc and so the electricity requirements to run HPs will reduce not increase in future. This demand will probably be replaced to some extent by EV charging, especially as we move to 2/3 EV households. However, I would have thought that with 32amp chargers and priority switches it should be possible to balance out demand to ensure most domestic houses could live with a single phase supply for a long while yet. Unless we all get infinitely more wealthy and it becomes the norm to have a heated swimming pool in the back garden!

I thought most of them consumed about 6 Kw. That's a different story then.

creedp

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought most of them consumed about 6 Kw. That's a different story then.

To be honest I can only comment on my own HP so its possible other models consume more electricity. When I was building I think the installer erred on the side of caution and installed a 12kw as against a 9kw HP. So I would think many well specced new houses, unless they were very large, would do with a 9kw or smaller HP which should consume even less that 3kw.

Again Im open to correction by people who know more about these things

cros13

Yeah, another seconder for a 16kVA connection.

It's worth noting that you 16kVA incurs no extra cost over the standard 12kVA so there's no reason not to go for it.

If you want to go above that there are single phase supply options all the way to 27kVA (but installation is extra and there may be extra standing charges).

RonTon

Hi guys,
Quick question
I’ve got electrician doing work in house doing few outside lights/shed jobs.

If I wanted to put in a supply for a future Ev charge point ,is it only a 6sqmm (20metres distance to where I’d put charger point) cable from distribution board with correct fuse I need him to do and put an outside socket there?
Distribution board is one end of house ,main supply from Esb other side , I could put ev at either place to charge .
Is there any advantage having the ev charge point near the Esb supply ?
Thanks

KCross

RonTon wrote: »

Hi guys,
Quick question
I’ve got electrician doing work in house doing few outside lights/shed jobs.

If I wanted to put in a supply for a future Ev charge point ,is it only a 6sqmm (20metres distance to where I’d put charger point) cable from distribution board with correct fuse I need him to do and put an outside socket there?
Distribution board is one end of house ,main supply from Esb other side , I could put ev at either place to charge .
Is there any advantage having the ev charge point near the Esb supply ?
Thanks

For that distance use 10mm2.
Maybe put in two cables if there is any chance you would have two EV's.

RonTon

I love the Ev threads on boards , I’ve learned so much on the subject...
So big Tyty for all for the info ...

If I was putting outside socket what would ideal height be from ground for easy switchover ?

Or would that make any difference?

KCross

RonTon wrote: »

If I was putting outside socket what would ideal height be from ground for easy switchover ?

Or would that make any difference?

Personal choice I think.

Not too high that its awkward to interact with it.
Not too low that you have to bend down to interact with it.


What I did was roughly positioned the socket at the same height as the port in the cars.... roughly waist high being the bottom of the charge point..... it doesnt really matter though.

bifl

unkel wrote: »

Yes to both questions. If it's a long run of cable 10mm2 is advised over the standard 6mm2 for 32A rating. If you don't have electric showers, then your standard 63A single phase connection is plenty if you have a 32A electric car charging. Even if you did have electric showers, a priority switch would temporarily stop the car charging while you're having a shower. Not an expensive solution either

Good luck with your new build! Did you considers solar PV and / or solar hot water for your roof? It's a lot cheaper to install while you are building than retrofitting.

You have got me thinking. I don't think the PV payback it there at the moment. But what would be good to to do now in terms of prep work and cable laying !?!?

Thanks to everyone for their contributions.
Bifl