Could Europe be self sufficient

gw80

Could Europe be self sufficient?
In regards to energy, food, quality of life.
Obviously the way we live now would have to change, but could we live a relatively good life without turning into a more communist like society.
Is there even enought natural resources to keep the lights on, coal, oil, Gas. Even with fracking and green energy sources included.
And re food, we often herd of the food mountain in Europe (dont bother looking, you wont find it on Google earth.)would there be enough to sustain Europe's population, keeping in mind Europe's low birth rates and as mentioned earlier the big changes in current lifestyles.
Could we keep enought people employed in the cultivation and harvesting of these natural resources to keep unemployment low.

Could there be a kind of happy middle ground between complete isolationism and unpredictable globalism.
Is there a balance to be had?

If we take a look at north America, basically USA and Canada, those nations would be in a much better position to be more isolated with vast oil and gas reserves and much more scope for green energy, think the deserts for solar energy, and vast tracts of land for farming and access to tropical and cold water on both sides of the landmass.

So could Europe not just survive, but exist with a relatively good quality of life aswell?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Too many ifs for it to be realistic. Likewise Canada and USA would never accept the hardships of isolationism either. There's more to modern living that having energy sources.

gw80

Santos Massive Squad wrote: »

Too many ifs for it to be realistic. Likewise Canada and USA would never accept the hardships of isolationism either. There's more to modern living that having energy sources.

So we are too entangled in the modern world,
Does it have to be hardship?
Living simply does not have to be simply living.

What if hypothetically we had no choice in the matter like in the case of some global catastrophe(dont worry, im not planning anything )

Shenshen

Europe without tea or coffee?

Sorry, I can't see that happening anytime soon.

whiskeyman

No Chinese takeaways?

Feck off you anti-globalisationist!!
I need my chicken balls and curry sauce!

Ulysses Gaze

gw80 wrote: »

Could Europe be self sufficient?
In regards to energy, food, quality of life.
Obviously the way we live now would have to change, but could we live a relatively good life without turning into a more communist like society.
Is there even enought natural resources to keep the lights on, coal, oil, Gas. Even with fracking and green energy sources included.
And re food, we often herd of the food mountain in Europe (dont bother looking, you wont find it on Google earth.)would there be enough to sustain Europe's population, keeping in mind Europe's low birth rates and as mentioned earlier the big changes in current lifestyles.
Could we keep enought people employed in the cultivation and harvesting of these natural resources to keep unemployment low.

Could there be a kind of happy middle ground between complete isolationism and unpredictable globalism.
Is there a balance to be had?

If we take a look at north America, basically USA and Canada, those nations would be in a much better position to be more isolated with vast oil and gas reserves and much more scope for green energy, think the deserts for solar energy, and vast tracts of land for farming and access to tropical and cold water on both sides of the landmass.

So could Europe not just survive, but exist with a relatively good quality of life aswell?

Militarily, it will always rely on the US & UK.

gw80

Shenshen wrote: »

Europe without tea or coffee?

Sorry, I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Surely nettle tea would suffice.

Harry Palmr

Yes but it would be quite different - plenty of what we consume isn't easily produced in a European climate while other foods etc could be but only in hothouse conditions which means using resources that might be better spent elsewhere. Would we be ready to pay far more than we do for clothing, electronic goods etc which are now made in the Far East, SE Asia and India for half what we can make them?

Could we turn enough of Southern Europe into energy farms for sun and enough of northern Europe into energy farms for wind?

Of course the really breaking point would be raw materials - timber, iron ore, gypsum, nitrates, gold, silver, various other heavy metals and trace elements - Europe is very poorly resourced for almost all of them

Atoms for Peace

The USA had a much higher standard of living or at least more a more equal society after WW ii than it does today.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

gw80 wrote: »

Surely nettle tea would suffice.

You see? That's the whole point. Of course we could survive if we had to but why should we move to survival mode?

gw80

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

The USA had a much higher standard of living or at least more a more equal society after WW ii than it does today.

Yes, i believe it was a lot more isolated before ww2, could it gave remained in that path,

s7ryf3925pivug

Romania managed to be pretty self sufficient under Ceausescu. It wasn't a model to envy. Self sufficiency for its own sake is stupid.

However the dependence of most of Europe on Russian gas is more stupid, and it was obviously stupid even back when they ignored Reagan and built the pipelines. Exploiting renewable resources and developing nuclear power is the best direction I think, phasing out fossil fuels altogether.

bizidea

Fek europe could ireland be self sufficent

Shenshen

gw80 wrote: »

Surely nettle tea would suffice.

That in itself would see me emigrate - to somewhere where there's real tea.

I think as a theoretical exercise it's interesting, but while I think it certainly would be possible with a massive reduction in quality of living, it won't make for a good place to live.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Militarily, it will always rely on the US & UK.

The U.K.? Nonsense.

Try_harder

bizidea wrote: »

Fek europe could ireland be self sufficent

Dev tried that, didn't work, wasn't a Good Life for anyone

gw80

Luciana Salty Stakeout wrote: »

Romania managed to be pretty self sufficient under Ceausescu. It wasn't a model to envy. Self sufficiency for its own sake is stupid.

However the dependence of most of Europe on Russian gas is more stupid, and it was obviously stupid even back when they ignored Reagan and built the pipelines. Exploiting renewable resources and developing nuclear power is the best direction I think, phasing out fossil fuels altogether.

This partly why i am thinking about this.
What if somthing happened in russia that was beyond our control and they switched off the gas, is there even a plan in place for this event,

Is there a limit on how far we should go with globalism, should we let it get to the stage where some unstable country on the other side of the world could hold us to ransom per say for some resource we rely on them for.
Or are we past the point of no return in that regards

Victor

There is no need for complete self-sufficiency and it can be destabalising to be completely self-sufficient - what if there is a bad harvest and you don't have the ability to import?

gw80 wrote: »

What if somthing happened in russia that was beyond our control and they switched off the gas,

Ireland doesn't use Russian gas, we use gas from Ireland and the North Sea.

gw80 wrote: »

is there even a plan in place for this event

Each EU state retains 90 days stocks of oil for such an eventuality. If there was a 25% cut in energy supplies, this would last a year. Add conservation measures, demand management, altering maintenance schedules and alternative supplies it would last much longer.

Capt'n Midnight

Europe is not self sufficient. Nowhere it's size is. We are just a peninsula off Asia.

It could be though. Except it cheaper to import some stuff balanced out by exporting stuff.

EU is a major exporter of food. Norway is producing lots of natural gas. And places like Italy and Germany are using tonnes of solar, ourselves and Denmark are big into wind. (We could probably reduce our electricity use by 1GW by insulating all buildings.) Oil use will be reduced as we move to hybrids and electrical cars and public transport. Or bicycles if things get really though. Remember it's not peak oil, it's Peak Cheap Oil.


It's just a matter of economics. We could be just about self sufficient but it's cheaper to import the stuff we miss.

greencap

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Militarily, it will always rely on the US & UK.

EU has 1.4 million active troops.

And outspends Russia 3:1 while on a tiny 1-2% spend.

Now armchair general me with some noise about co-ordination.

KyussB

The entire point of Globalization is not to accept mere self-sufficiency - it's to pillage the rest of the worlds resources (from weaker nations), in order to serve you - so that you don't have to be self sufficient, you get others to do the work and provide the resources for you.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I'd rather hook back up with our neigbours.

When the EU comes apart I want us to be at the forefront of an anglosphere Union.

They're the people we know and have everything in common with.

DEFTLEFTHAND

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'd rather hook back up with our neigbours.

When the EU comes apart I want us to be at the forefront of an anglosphere Union.

They're the people we know and have everything in common with.

Our neighbours are the ones going off wandering in the night and you want us to join them?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Deleted User wrote: »

Our neighbours are the ones going off wandering in the night and you want us to join them?

Brits are always ahead of the curve. They didn't rule half the world for 200 years for nothing.

Insignificant member euro states and net drains like ourselves cannot compare to what they experienced.


But I know when the time comes they will welcome us back into the fold. We're not Europeans.

pickarooney

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Brits are always ahead of the curve. They didn't rule half the world for 200 years for nothing.

Insignificant member euro states and net drains like ourselves cannot compare to what they experienced.


But I know when the time comes they will welcome us back into the fold. We're not Europeans.

You sound like someone emerging from a rape dungeon and wondering why everyone doesn't love 'Daddy' like you do.

Graces7

Used to be and could be again if we changed our way of life.

greencap

pickarooney wrote: »

You sound like someone emerging from a rape dungeon and wondering why everyone doesn't love 'Daddy' like you do.

I believe he may be ....playing an internet joke, to elicit a response.

Capt'n Midnight

Graces7 wrote: »

Used to be and could be again if we changed our way of life.

We can't all afford to be poor.

Only rich people can afford passive houses and full electric cars (subsidised by the rest of us, less tax and free ESB chargers) and other goodies that use less resources in the long run.

Fibre to the home could have been rolled out during the last boom to all the new estates built then. Could have lots of people tele-commuting by now. Could also have insisted on proper insulation and other stuff in those overpriced houses , but we didn't.

badtoro

Shenshen wrote: »

Europe without tea or coffee?

Sorry, I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Tea will grow in Europe.

EPAndlee

It wouldn't last long before Germany would try take over the whole of Europe

Capt'n Midnight

badtoro wrote: »

Tea will grow in Europe.

Iceland exports bananas.

wexie

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Iceland exports bananas.

which were grown where exactly?

Not in Iceland

Capt'n Midnight

wexie wrote: »

which were grown where exactly?

Not in Iceland

In greenhouses. Geothermal heat.

wexie

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

In greenhouses. Geothermal heat.

Really? I thought you were talking in the same way that Ireland used to 'export' bananas.

That's bananas!

Capt'n Midnight

wexie wrote: »

Really? I thought you were talking in the same way that Ireland used to 'export' bananas.

That's bananas!

They don't anymore though because it's cheaper to import these days. But they could.



The best bit about the Irish banana business is that they were manufactured here. We didn't grow them, we made them.

That tax loophole was closed a while back.

wexandproud

badtoro wrote: »

Tea will grow in Europe.

Shur don't we have irish tea all ready as in barry's and lyons . I believe a fella called 'paddy fields ' down in cork grows it for them although i have yet to see it