Oral work contract

zoviea

Hi..I've been working for a company for 7 years under an oral contract. Doing set days and hours. But a new company has took over and want me to sign a written contract. Contract says different hours and casual work but the company is been really nice and telling me not to worry about that as it won't affect me but I'm worried and don't want to sign. Do I have to..is the oral contract enough?

GM228

zoviea wrote: »

Hi..I've been working for a company for 7 years under an oral contract. Doing set days and hours. But a new company has took over and want me to sign a written contract. Contract says different hours and casual work but the company is been really nice and telling me not to worry about that as it won't affect me but I'm worried and don't want to sign. Do I have to..is the oral contract enough?

First and foremost you should never be working under an entirely oral contract, you are (by law) required to be given a written statement of your terms of employment within two months of taking up employment.

Secondly, TUPE generally applies meaning a new employer must carry on your existing terms.

Thirdly, never sign something you do not agree with, saying not to worry as it won't affect you is BS, once you sign the employer could try force those terms on you and it would be very difficult to argue otherwise especially when your employer produces a signed agreement. If they insist on signing ask for the terms to be amended first to your existing terms.

Finally, consult a solicitor who specialises in employment law for advice on the matter, it may well be worth your while.

zoviea

Thank you for your help. .I can't sleep I'm so stressed. I contacted my union and they said it should be "fine" but if not they will fight my case but I don't want a case to fight just want what I've always been doing. So do you think know I have a right to ask employer to amend the contract for me to suit what I have always been doing? They appear nice and telling me that I have nothing to worry about signinformation it as there no hidden agenda but it saying I'd be casual worker and I'm not😕

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

coylemj

zoviea wrote: »

So do you think know I have a right to ask employer to amend the contract for me to suit what I have always been doing?

I appreciate your situation and your anxiety concerning your new employer but can I be a devil's advocate for a minute....

In the absence of any existing written contract, what you are seeking to do is for you to set down on paper what you considerer to be 'your contract' and you expect your new employer to accept this document as a new contract of employment. I seriously doubt that any employer will accede to this request.

ScouseMouse

You need to get the contract they are offering and go through it with a fine tooth comb. Do not accept any verbal offers.

Peregrinus

coylemj wrote: »

I appreciate your situation and your anxiety concerning your new employer but can I be a devil's advocate for a minute....

In the absence of any existing written contract, what you are seeking to do is for you to set down on paper what you considerer to be 'your contract' and you expect your new employer to accept this document as a new contract of employment. I seriously doubt that any employer will accede to this request.

They can't really refuse, unless they are going to argue that the OP's statement of what he has been employed to do for the past 7 years is wrong. The new employers are bound by the OP's current terms of employment and, while its unfortunate that the current terms have never been written down, that's not the OP's fault, and it doesn't entitle the new employer to ignore them and substitute a set of terms that it likes better.

OP, if you're not in a trade union, round about now is the time you discover why you should be. If there isn't a trade union to support you in this, you're in a sticky situation trying to turn your terms and conditions established by practice into a reasonable written contract. Are there others in the business in the same situation as yourself? If so, you might get together and share the expense of talking to a law firm with experience in employment matters.

Victor

Do not trust your new boss. They are looking after themselves.

Do not trust your old boss. They are looking after themselves.

Glass fused light

zoviea wrote: »

I contacted my union and they said it should be "fine" but if not they will fight my case but I don't want a case to fight just want what I've always been doing.

Who ever told you this ^^ is an idiot. If you sign the contract you have agreed to the terms of the contract, the time to fight your case is before you sign anything.
Call your union back and ask if they have qualified people, ideally a solicitor, who can read the contract and explain what each section means. Get them to expalin what needs to change so that it is in agreement with the terms and conditions you previously and currently work under.

If they can't offer you this look for a referral to solicitors they have used who would be employment specialist.

zoviea wrote: »

but the individual working on behalf of the company is been really nice and telling me not to worry about that as it won't affect me
is the oral contract enough?

If you have discussed your hours (< a basic term and condition) and an individual tells you not to worry about changing your terms and conditions, you can take it as a fact that that person is dealing with you in bad faith and that you need a written contract to protect your interests.

As GM228 said never sign where you are not in agreement with.

zoviea wrote: »

7 years under an oral contract.
Existing contract : Doing set days and hours. < minimum fixed contract hours.
Proposed contract : different hours and casual work < could be a zero hour contract

If you have to sign, mark the different hours term out by striking a line through the words and write in the days and hours you currently work. Mark out any reference to casual.
If you get paid for any days which are not bank holidays eg good friday add this in. If you get sick pay or there benefits like a Christmas bonus this needs to be documented too.
(Don't take advantage as the company will have access to your old employer and work records.)
Changes to the contract are best done with the help of a solicitor.


But the most important thing is that if it is a TUPE (< get the union to explain) you are given recognition that it is a TUPE and for your 7 years of service so that any redundancy takes account of this.
Your role is gone in the old company and you are currently entitled to be paid redundency from your old job, 1) if the new company claims its not a TUPE situation or 2) if it is TUPE you and the new company can't agree (new) terms and you are let go. This right goes away if it's a TUPE and you continue working

ScouseMouse

They are really nice to you to get you to cooperate. If they were dicks, would you be so co-operative?

Believe nothing they tell you.

tricky D

OP you have a 'contract by practice' which is possibly the same or similar to TUPE. You hold the cards as they can not change without your consent.

Peregrinus

tricky D wrote: »

OP you have a 'contract by practice' which is possibly the same or similar to TUPE. You hold the cards as they can not change without your consent.

But the contract is difficult to enforce as it's not written down; if there's a dispute, how is the OP going to prove the terms of his employment?

It's good practice for employment terms to be written down and, even if it weren't, as has already been pointed out it's a legal requirement. In seeking to get the employment contract reduced to writing the new employer here is doing the right thing.

The key is to ensure that the written contract does actually reflect the terms of the existing oral contract and this can be tricky because, as pointed out, if there's isn't agreement about the existing terms it's hard to prove what they are; chicken-and-egg. The OP should get whatever assistance he can from his union and/or from an employment lawyer, and go through the terms of the contract very carefully, suggesting amendments where he thinks they are wrong.

But it would help to know what the standard/usual terms and conditions for this job might be; a court would probably imply these into the oral contract anyway. For instance, if the draft written contract says "you can be asked to work at another site" or "you can be asked to do different work from the kind you normally do if company circumstances require it", the OP might object that he never has been asked to work at a different site, or do different work, so these are not terms that reflect his current oral contract. But in fact they are pretty standard terms in most contracts of employment; if the OP had been offered a written contract on day 1 they probably would have been included; they probably are included in the written contracts that his colleagues have always had. A court might think that if the employer wasn't to have that degree of flexiblity, that would be very unusual, and it would need to have been something agreed explicitly, if not in writing, then orally.

In short, just because a term in the written contract surprises the OP doesn't mean that it might not already be an implied term of his current oral contract. This is why the OP needs expert advice to guide him in what he can successfully object to, and to enable him to focus his bargaining power on points where it might pay dividends for him.

Serjeant Buzfuz

Be very careful, if you sign this contract you are bound by it.