Not registered, never knew.

DeephouseDave

After getting a new gas boiler replacement from a recommended plumber I find out after its done that he's not registered. Now I have no certs for the job. How do I get the certs legally needed? Job is done and looks good but certs needed by law. Would never had used if known not registered.

BenEadir

DeephouseDave wrote: »

After getting a new gas boiler replacement from a recommended plumber I find out after its done that he's not registered. Now I have no certs for the job. How do I get the certs legally needed? Job is done and looks good but certs needed by law. Would never had used if known not registered.

You won't want to hear this but its 100% your responsibility to actually check the person you employ to do the job is registered. I assume he didn't say he was registered and then turned out not to be?

If you want the job certified you're going to have to hire and pay an actual registered installer to check the installation and sign off on it but don't expect it to be an easy task to find a registered installer to do or cheap. No one who values their registered status will easily put their name to and risk their registered status by approving an unregistered installers work. The potential fee someone like yourself, who has already paid for an installation, is prepared to pay for them doing so rarely matches the risk they are taking.

Sleeper12

RGI guys pay thousands for training and refresher courses. They have to be insured. Its worth remembering this when you are paying him to cert the work.

Report him to RGI it’s what their there for.

BenEadir

gary71 wrote: »

Report him to RGI it’s what their there for.

Report who? The original installer? Is it illegal to install a boiler unless you're RGI registered? What punishment will the RGI be able to dish out to someone who isn't registered with them?

Sleeper12

BenEadir wrote:

Report who? The original installer? Is it illegal to install a boiler unless you're RGI registered? What punishment will the RGI be able to dish out to someone who isn't registered with them?

I believe that he could be brought to court, fined & or jailed. A builder went to jail for trying to pass himself off as a REC & doing electrical work

mickdw

DeephouseDave wrote: »

After getting a new gas boiler replacement from a recommended plumber I find out after its done that he's not registered. Now I have no certs for the job. How do I get the certs legally needed? Job is done and looks good but certs needed by law. Would never had used if known not registered.

Explain the situation to a registered man and tell him to do / redo whatever needs doing to allow him to issue cert.
It's a new boiler after all so he should be able to bring the install to an approved standard.
You are probably down the cost of the initial install though.

K.Flyer

BenEadir wrote: »

1Report who? The original installer?
2 Is it illegal to install a boiler unless you're RGI registered?
3 What punishment will the RGI be able to dish out to someone who isn't registered with them?

1, Yes.
2, Yes.
3, Last month a Dublin man was prosecuted and fined €10,000 for illegally undertaking Gas Works and portraying himself as a Registered Gas Installer

DeephouseDave

BenEadir wrote: »

You won't want to hear this but its 100% your responsibility to actually check the person you employ to do the job is registered. I assume he didn't say he was registered and then turned out not to be?

If you want the job certified you're going to have to hire and pay an actual registered installer to check the installation and sign off on it but don't expect it to be an easy task to find a registered installer to do or cheap. No one who values their registered status will easily put their name to and risk their registered status by approving an unregistered installers work. The potential fee someone like yourself, who has already paid for an installation, is prepared to pay for them doing so rarely matches the risk they are taking.

Just hoping my gas company might send someone out to do it for safety reasons. Or would a service do it and be registered then?

nhg

To avail of your boilers warranty should you need to use it you will need to be able to produce the RGII installation certificate (Cert 1 for completely new installation or Cert 2 if it's a replacement boiler as it in in this case)

DeephouseDave

DeephouseDave wrote: »

Just hoping my gas company might send someone out to do it for safety reasons. Or would a service do it and be registered then?

No.

It’s is illegal to employ a non Rgi to work in your home and you will judged by your actions if this comes to light, I would ring Rgi and talk to one of their inspector who can help put you the right side of this problem, these things can get out of hand in the event of something going wrong so I wouldn’t take any risks.

Sleeper12

gary71 wrote: »

No.

It’s is illegal to employ a non Rgi to work in your home and you will judged by your actions if this comes to light, I would ring Rgi and talk to one of their inspector who can help put you the right side of this problem, these things can get out of hand in the event of something going wrong so I wouldn’t take any risks.

My sister bought a gas hobs & had a plumber connect it. Developed a fault after a few weeks. Manufacture wouldn't stand over the warranty without a RGI cert.

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Sleeper12

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Yes.

You should also be getting a cert every year with your service

I'm a plumber. I get a RGI in to do anything with gas in my home. He's trained in it where I am not. Same with electrical work. I always use REC

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Sleeper12

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RGI are required by law to issue a certificate for any work on the gas line & boiler. This includes the annual service.

REC is required by law to issue a certificate for any work carried out on the fuse board

In both cases the certificate contains information on work carried out and safety checks and testing. It creates a accountability.

It's up to the homeowner to make sure that they receive the a certificate

BenEadir

K.Flyer wrote: »

1, Yes.
2, Yes.
3, Last month a Dublin man was prosecuted and fined €10,000 for illegally undertaking Gas Works and portraying himself as a Registered Gas Installer

I think the key difference here is that the guy the OP got to do the job never falsely represented himself as a registered gas installer. BIG difference.

emeldc

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Whatever about buying or selling a property, insurance companies have started looking for them at renewal time.

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Sleeper12

BenEadir wrote:

I think the key difference here is that the guy the OP got to do the job never falsely represented himself as a registered gas installer. BIG difference.

You can & do go to jail for working on boilers. Claiming to be rgi is a separate offence. Just the act of installing a gas boiler and not being rgi is an offence you can get a prison sentence for. You are putting people's lives in danger at the end of the day

The law requires:

A gas appliance requires a rgi to install, service and repair.

A rgi must leave a official gas cert documenting any gas work carried out(the certs can change depending on work carried out)

A home owner can’t be required to prove their gas appliance meets the above criteria if the homeowner can prove the above then it can have a detrimental effect on the homeowner as warranties can be cancelled and home insurance have been known not pay a payout on claim.

K.Flyer

BenEadir wrote: »

I think the key difference here is that the guy the OP got to do the job never falsely represented himself as a registered gas installer. BIG difference.

By fitting the boiler he has broken the law, even if he just hung it on the wall and did everything except connect the gas pipe.
By taking on the work he has represented himself as a person who is legally permitted and registered to carry out such works.

All in all

Another article here on a guy prosecuted.
http://www.thejournal.ie/gas-repairs-man-tipperary-3305230-Mar2017/

Dardania

gary71 wrote: »

The law requires:

A gas appliance requires a rgi to install, service and repair.

A rgi must leave a official gas cert documenting any gas work carried out(the certs can change depending on work carried out)

A home owner can be required to prove their gas appliance meets the above criteria if the homeowner can prove the above then it can have a detrimental effect on the homeowner as warranties can be cancelled and home insurance have been known not pay a payout on claim.

What law is that - where are the limits defined?
Not being antagonistic or disbelieving, just want to see it with my own eyes

All in all

Dardania wrote: »

What law is that - where are the limits defined?
Not being antagonistic or disbelieving, just want to see it with my own eyes

http://www.rgii.ie/about-us/the-rgii-register.2713.html

Dardania

All in all wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

What law is that - where are the limits defined?
Not being antagonistic or disbelieving, just want to see it with my own eyes

http://www.rgii.ie/about-us/the-rgii-register.2713.html

Many thanks for that - not hugely illuminating (basically, you need to get a copy of IS 813)?

K.Flyer

Dardania wrote: »

What law is that - where are the limits defined?
Not being antagonistic or disbelieving, just want to see it with my own eyes

Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2006

(24) A person shall not—

(a) describe himself or herself as a registered gas installer, or

(b) describe himself or herself in a manner likely to suggest that he or she is a registered gas installer,

unless that person is a member of the designated body.

25) A person who contravenes subsection (4), (23) or (24) is guilty of an offence and liable—

(a) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or to both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €15,000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or to both.

Sleeper12

Off topic here but I'm loving the ad on TV at the moment about RGI installers. I'm not a Daniel O Donnoll fan but I think it's a brilliant ad.

Tom44

Even my cat knows that it's illegal to work on gas unless you're a registered gas installer / service engineer.

Let's not kidd ourselves
OP's plumber knew that too.
If he didn't, then that's even scarier. :eek:

anthonyos

As an rgi myself if I was asked to certify a boiler I didn't install I wouldn't if I did I would be lying because I didn't install it.but an option would be to remove the boiler and refit it possibly with a new flue then it could be certified.

anthonyos

anthonyos wrote: »

As an rgi myself if I was asked to certify a boiler I didn't install I wouldn't if I did I would be lying because I didn't install it.but an option would be to remove the boiler and refit it possibly with a new flue then it could be certified.

I would expect if a boiler was reported to RGI as not having a Cert Rgi would be more than happy with the intervention of a inspector to allow a second Rgi to sign off on a installation if the second Rgi is happy it meets his or her standards I would also expect that second Rgi would have a element of protection as it would be documented he/she didn’t fit the boiler.

The starting point is with Rgi and from my own experience both the CER and RGI investigate and then help by actively looking for closure for the homeowner which wouldn’t be the case if the home owner doesn’t step up in the first place.

Tom44

Basically
There should be a system within RGII for second man to certify existing insulation of all visible work and name & shame original non RGI cowboy
Hopefully leading to proscution.

I know gas, but I'm not registered anymore.
But " I DON'T FIT BOILERS" or work on gas.

OldMrBrennan83

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digitaldr

I'm a landlord (a good one I might add!) and always get the boiler serviced on an annual contract. In fact I replaced it last year as the heat exchanger went on the original one. I always use a reputable RGI certified company and get certs for everything. Also have carbon monoxide and smoke alarms which I replace at the recommended intervals - have reminders set on my phone. Wouldn't want the death of a tenant on my hands or to be up on a manslaughter charge:eek:

I actually prefer if tenants let me know about any problems - a stitch in time etc.

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

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The manufacturers of your boiler requires the boiler to be correctly serviced to keep it running in the manor it was designed to.

As the technology of gas boilers improve they need less and less cleaning which gives the “no need to service” brigade a bigger and bigger argument they feel.

A gas service is more focused on safety and efficiency it would be a requirement for the boilers warranty’s and home insurance.

The one fact I do know partially from personal experience is every death and nearly every gas explosion would of been preventable with something as silly as a service by a competent RGI.

OldMrBrennan83

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Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

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Your landlord has a duty of care over your well being and it would be reasonable to expect a landlord to rent a property that is safe.

Over the last 10 years it’s become the norm with some RGIs not to cut the boiler flue to manufacturers instructions leaving the flue totally uncut with the terminal terminating well past the line of the brickwork.

This silly bit of laziness allows the strong weather conditions we’ve had to over time shake loose the connection on top of the boiler allowing high levels of carbon monoxide in to the home which is most likely to kill the youngest or oldest first.

I have seen this twice in the last six months with the flue fully disconnected from the top of the boiler.

Potential death by laziness which Is very preventable all it requires is the flue to be cut correctly with a hack saw and cemented into place to prevent movement, this is one of the safety issues good RGIs look for on a annual service.

PLEASE FIT A CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTOR IF YOU USE A APPLIANCE OF ANY FUEL TYPE WITH A FLAME, THE DETECTORS ARE CHEAP AND CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE.

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/106831429#Comment_106831429

Can you show in the legislation where it shows it is illegal also to employ someone for this purpose?