Liveline (Joe Duffy) discussion this afternoon (Wed)

Joe1919

Just hearing on radio preview discussion on cycle accidents and he asking if helmets should be compulsory (which would not suit me as a casual cyclist).

HugoMyBoss

How may motorists lives would be saved if they wore crash helmets while at the wheel?

Hurrache

A caller yesterday, a taxi driver so his opinion would be highly valued by Duffy, made the suggestion yesterday. No surprises there's a follow-up.

Knocked off but caught the end of the show elsewhere later and there was another caller advocating compulsory everything for cyclists and suggested to Duffy that he should start a campaign on bringing it in.

07Lapierre

Have to be honest... I wear a helmet every time I’m on my bike. Almost all of my winter cycling clothes have reflective elements built in. I use lights when it’s dark, I have insurance (CI and IVCA) etc.

So if helmets are made compulsory/legal, it’s not going to affect me anyway. Besides... just like lights, probably won’t be enforced anyway.

07Lapierre

HugoMyBoss wrote: »

How may motorists lives would be saved if they wore crash helmets while at the wheel?

If they really want to save more lives... all cars should have a roll cage, bucket seats, 5 point harness and NO airbags!

All passengers should have to wear helmets and fire proof clothing.

I was wondering why he'd be so concerned for the safety of cyclists but I think I see the taxi drivers logic here, if they all have helmets on sure it's grand so if I close pass or dangerously over take them. Makes sense.

magicbastarder

07Lapierre wrote: »

So if helmets are made compulsory/legal, it’s not going to affect me anyway.

it will. it will very noticeably reduce the number of cyclists on the road, and make you even more of a minority.

07Lapierre

magicbastarder wrote: »

it will. it will very noticeably reduce the number of cyclists on the road, and make you even more of a minority.

Valid point.

Annie get your Run

07Lapierre wrote: »

Valid point.

Exactly! Like you I wear a helmet & hi viz gear (along with the actual mandatory front and back lights) but I'd hate to have this brought in as law. i see plenty of casual cyclists out every day without either of those things, what would happen to them? And what about the dublin bikes scheme?

More focus needs to be drawn to the fact that despite wearing hi viz and a helmet taxi drivers and other cars/vans/buses still close pass me, beep me, cut me up etc, daily. It achieves nothing.

If we do bring this in as law will the taxi's agree to stop bullying and being aggressive? No.

Chips Lovell

Liveline? Don't do it people

RobFowl

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Liveline? Don't do it people

Worse than heroin....

traco

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Liveline? Don't do it people

Yep - the ultimate Troll and one of the greatest purveyors of misery of our time!!!

Juan More Time

I heard that Joe Duffy show, and the naivety of some of the callers made my blood boil....

A cycle helmet will only save a cyclists life in the event of the cyclist falling from their bicycle. It won't save the life of a cyclist who has been run over and crushed beneath the wheels of a motor vehicle being piloted by a careless inattentive driver.

What we really need are much harsher penalties for drivers who kill and maim cyclists and pedestrians. The days of willfully careless motorists getting off with cushy suspended sentences for killing vulnerable road users such as cyclists and pedestrians should be long gone, but our corrupt judicial system lets these careless drivers skate off with suspended sentences time and time again?

We really need is a decent cycling advocacy group in this country. Cycling Ireland seems only concerned with the elite racing end of the sport, so they can't be relied on to fight for a fair deal for us ordinary cyclists...

I'm also sick of the misinformed crap that yer average thicko motorist says... Well Joe- cyclists they don't pay road tax. Well I'm a cyclist, and I pay € 760 per year road tax for my rarely used crappy pre 2008 car, while most of ye driving night and day in your newish cars only pay on average €190 per year.....

And they really need to tighten the minimum eyesight requirement for a person to hold a driving licence. There are just too many myopic idiots driving cars on the road who can barely see beyond the end of their nose....

Annie get your Run

Juan More Time wrote: »

I'm also sick of the misinformed crap that yer average thicko motorist says... Well Joe- cyclists they don't pay road tax. Well I'm a cyclist, and I pay € 760 per year road tax for my rarely used crappy pre 2008 car, while most of ye driving night and day in your newish cars only pay on average €190 per year.....
.

I hate to do this but you don't. You pay motor tax and this is the crux of the issue. It's not a tax for use of the roads, it's a tax on the emissions of your car (previously a tax on the engine size of the car).

The sooner radio presenters & journalists in general start correcting this error the better!

Juan More Time

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I hate to do this but you don't. You pay motor tax and this is the crux of the issue. It's not a tax for use of the roads, it's a tax on the emissions of your car (previously a tax on the engine size of the car).

The sooner radio presenters & journalists in general start correcting this error the better!

Well most of us who drive older cars would drive much less that ten thousand miles per year anyway. While a friend of mine pays a paltry €190 per year on his Audi A6 tdi, he drives forty to fifty thousand miles per year.

He produces far more Co2 than I do, so your argument is deeply flawed....

mr spuckler

Juan More Time wrote: »

Well most of us who drive older cars would drive much less that ten thousand miles per year anyway. While a friend of mine pays a paltry €190 per year on an Audi A6 tdi, he drives forty thousand miles per year.

He produces far more Co2 than I do, so your argument is deeply flawed....

the comment relates to describing it as "road" tax rather than "motor" tax. it's a commonly used misnomer which then feeds into the view that motorists are paying for the roads whereby cyclists are not. in fact (other than for older cars such as yours) they're paying a tax based on their emission of harmful pollutants.

Juan More Time

mr spuckler wrote: »

the comment relates to describing it as "road" tax rather than "motor" tax. it's a commonly used misnomer which then feeds into the view that motorists are paying for the roads whereby cyclists are not. in fact (other than for older cars such as yours) they're paying a tax based on their emission of harmful pollutants.

My car doesn't produce many harmful pollutants, because it's parked on my driveway most of the time. While I risk my life riding my bicycle...avoiding texting drivers who can't put away their mobile phones ...

Wishbone Ash

Juan More Time wrote: »

My car doesn't produce many harmful pollutants, because it's parked on my driveway most of the time. While I ride my bicycle...

The point has gone over your head. He/she was merely saying you should be calling it motor tax - not road tax.

Juan More Time

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The point has gone over your head. He/she was merely saying you should be calling it motor tax - not road tax.

You are just being overly pedantic.....Motor tax...road tax. It's the same payment. Anyway If your car is so fugging kind to the environment, I would suggest you try inhaling its exhaust deeply for five minutes...

magicbastarder

there's one obvious difference between helmets and seatbelts. seatbelts are integrated into the vehicle, and the motorist does not have to carry them around or otherwise arrange storage.
making seatbelts mandatory does not affect the rate of motoring. nor does it seem to affect your chances of being in an accident, which some research points to with helmets.

Sleeper12

magicbastarder wrote:

there's one obvious difference between helmets and seatbelts. seatbelts are integrated into the vehicle, and the motorist does not have to carry them around or otherwise arrange storage. making seatbelts mandatory does not affect the rate of motoring. nor does it seem to affect your chances of being in an accident, which some research points to with helmets.

Motorbike riders are required to wear helmets by law

Corca Baiscinn

Juan More Time wrote: »

We really need is a decent cycling advocacy group in this country. Cycling Ireland seems only concerned with the elite racing end of the sport, so they can't be relied on to fight for a fair deal for us ordinary cyclists...

Cycling Ireland is not and was never intended to be an advocacy group so unfair to blame them for not being one. Their website says that they are the governing body for cycling in Ireland and goes on to mention the various types of cycling events they promote. Cycling Ireland did get behind the recent MPDL campaign but generally speaking they don't see advocacy as their role. I know that there are thousands of CI members who are into leisure rather than competitive cycling and if those members feel that CI should be doing more re safety issues it's up to them to make their voices heard

The main nationwide cycling advocacy group in Ieland is cyclist.ie It is an umbrella group for Cycling Campaigns in Dublin, Maynooth Skerries, Naas, Cork, Kerry, Waterford and Sligo and some community greenway groups ae also members. However, it is run entirely by volunteers apart from one part-time staff member. By contrast the Belgian equivalent has 6 full-time staff!

I Bike Dublin are a newer advocacy/action group best known for their #freethe cyclelanes actions in locations such as Rathmines, Pearse St, Sandyford. I Bike also did trojan work in campaigning for the MPDL.

There is also an active cycle campaign in Galway.

So there you have it, if you live in any of those locations get on board! Unlike the AA, Taxi Federations, Dublin Bus etc there are no paid spokespeople/PR companies to do it for us and heaven knows there's a lot to do.

In the context of this Talk to Joe thread the "lot to do" includes tying to counter the relentless anit-cycling bias in the media but it's dispiriting. Dublin Cycling Campaign and I Bike Dublin holding a die-In shortly outside the Dáil so e'll see what the coverage is like

neris

Joe Duffy the same man who had a caller on in 2014 to whinge about the streets of Dublin city and northern suburbs been closed for a few hours for the giro. The same Joe Duffy who's house just happened to be right on the route. It's not a caller led show it's Joes personal soapbox for his agenda. He must have seen a cyclist he didn't like on the cycle track yesterday

Annie get your Run

Juan More Time wrote: »

Well most of us who drive older cars would drive much less that ten thousand miles per year anyway. While a friend of mine pays a paltry €190 per year on his Audi A6 tdi, he drives forty to fifty thousand miles per year.

He produces far more Co2 than I do, so your argument is deeply flawed....

Juan More Time wrote: »

You are just being overly pedantic.....Motor tax...road tax. It's the same payment. Anyway If your car is so fugging kind to the environment, I would suggest you try inhaling its exhaust deeply for five minutes...

Juan More Time wrote: »

My car doesn't produce many harmful pollutants, because it's parked on my driveway most of the time. While I risk my life riding my bicycle...avoiding texting drivers who can't put away their mobile phones ...

No no, you're missing the point entirely. None of us pay road tax, and no, it's not 'all the same'. We're all cyclists here, we all have zero emissions on our bikes and we all swallow car fumes on our bike rides.

My original point was that we need to stop calling the payment Road Tax and call it by it's proper term, Motor tax (hence why we pay through a website called motortax.ie...). The problem with perpetuating the myth is that drivers think it gives them the right to shout at people on bikes 'you don't pay road tax' so therefore have no right to be on the road.

I wasn't having a pop at you directly but we all need to stop referring to this car tax as road tax (I also have a 10 year old car that sits on my drive most of the time while I cycle in and out of work).

ted1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

magicbastarder wrote:

there's one obvious difference between helmets and seatbelts. seatbelts are integrated into the vehicle, and the motorist does not have to carry them around or otherwise arrange storage. making seatbelts mandatory does not affect the rate of motoring. nor does it seem to affect your chances of being in an accident, which some research points to with helmets.

Motorbike riders are required to wear helmets by law

They frequently travel at 120 kmh.

velo.2010

Ah, Joe Duffy! The man who used the Jack and Jill Foundation to help launch his book on the dead children of the Easter Rising. He let people assume that the proceeds of the book would be going to charity... but no. He claimed artists exemption and kept the money from the book for himself. I believe the name of his company is Claddaghgreen Limited.

Great man, Joe.

Wishbone Ash

Sleeper12 wrote: »

... on a pushbike...

I've just lost the will to live.

John_Rambo

HugoMyBoss wrote: »

How may motorists lives would be saved if they wore crash helmets while at the wheel?

Worldwide? Millions.

But staying local, in 2017 there were 159 fatalities in Ireland.

68 were drivers. I'd say a good few of them would have survived if they had helmets. (Most drivers and passengers die from head injuries)

26 were passengers. Again, I'd say a good few of them would have survived if they had helmets. (Most drivers and passengers die from head injuries)

30 Pedestrians died. A lot of them might have survived if they had helmets, including babies in buggies and prams that were hit by motorists. (Head injuries are amongst the leading cause of death for pedestrians, while leg injuries are the most frequent disabling injuries)

20 Motorcyclists died. They were most likely driving with helmets, I'm sure the figure would be larger if they weren't wearing helmets due to the speed they can accumulate in a short amount of time along with lengthened braking and cornering abilities, not to mention car driver danger.

15 Pedal Cyclists died. Unfortunately as the reasons for the deaths are slowly leaked out it seems that a helmet won't save the cyclist from the massive injuries unleashed when a cyclist is met with a drunk, speeding or careless driver as most were wearing helmets.

I always wear a helmet when cycling, so do my kids. But realistically most of the near misses I have with over 1 tonne vehicles would have been crushing injuries that involve full body injuries. I'm a city commuter and the rural cyclists will tell you the near missed they have would involve massive, full body destruction at speed. And they're the ones that are dying more than the urban commuters.

Look at the latest one on the news. No helmet was going to spare his life from the careless driver.

Sleeper12

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I've just lost the will to live.

Sorry. I'm a motorist. Haven't cycled in 30 years or more. I'm guessing we don't use pushbike anymore. My bad