Successive engine failure - rights?

theoldbreed

Hi all,

I am not looking for legal advice just a bit of knowledge so as to be better able to deal with situation.

My husband bought a 132 Mazda 6 Sport last June. All was going well and he brought it into the local Mazda for a full service at the end of January and that was fine. At the end of March he was driving and it just stopped, long story short, the engine had seized. He brought it to Mazda and had another engine fitted from a 162 car, it cost nearly 5 grand and they had it for over a month.

Now today, the same thing has happened. The engine has gone again. What rights does he have in relation to this? What are Mazda responsible for and vice versa.

Thank you

coylemj

Did the first replacement engine come with any kind of warranty? I realise that it wasn't brand new but for five grand you'd expect some class of a guarantee and that it would last more than a few weeks. Did it come out of a crashed car or what was it's provenance?

Did your husband see any warning lights regarding low coolant or oil? With all the various sensors and electronics under the bonnet, it's pretty much unknown for a modern engine to just die with no advance warning.

wexie

So how long did the replacement engine last? 3 weeks?

What are the garage saying?

theoldbreed

coylemj wrote: »

Did the first replacement engine come with any kind of warranty? I realise that it wasn't brand new but for five grand you'd expect some class of a guarantee and that it would last more than a few weeks. Did it come out of a crashed car or what was it's provenance?

Did your husband see any warning lights regarding low coolant or oil? With all the various sensors and electronics under the bonnet, it's pretty much unknown for a modern engine to just die with no advance warning.

I don't know about warranty but Mazda sourced it and fitted it themselves.

No that's the weird thing, no lights, just a bang and stop. Turns out another new engine needed. They said they are waiting to hear back from engine supplier. I rang consumer protection commission, they said his contract is with mazda so it's their problem to deal with the engine supplier issues.

theoldbreed

wexie wrote: »

So how long did the replacement engine last? 3 weeks?

What are the garage saying?

Engine lasted 11 days. Was fitted April 12. They said they haven't seen anything happen like this. Basically some part came out through side of engine. I don't know the mechanics.....

seamus

If they pulled an engine from a 162, then that car was probably written off in a crash. The engine may have been damaged but they hadn't realised it.

I would expect the garage to replace the engine again and provide a courtesy car while that's being done.

Unless your husband spent those 11 days driving laps around Mondello, this seems pretty straightforward that the engine they installed was a dud?

wexie

theoldbreed wrote: »

They said they haven't seen anything happen like this. Basically some part came out through side of engine. I don't know the mechanics.....

That's somewhat less than helpful of them....:D

I don't know but it if were me I'd be having a good chat with them about what the options are. One way or another something isn't right here there is absolutely no way a replacement engine (new or not) should fail quite so catastrophically in that time frame. So unless there is some clear evidence of wrong doing on your or your OH's parts (and I can't for the life of me think of what that could be) I don't see this is anything other than another replacement at no cost of yours. And the way I see it that would be the least.

Speak to the garage and see what they suggest to solve this is the next step I guess.

Probably wouldn't hurt to find out (if you can) if there are (m)any more cases of catastrophic engine failure in these cars. Perhaps find a Mazda forum and ask around?

wexie

seamus wrote: »

Unless your husband spent those 11 days driving laps around Mondello, this seems pretty straightforward that the engine they installed was a dud?

I couldn't think of anything he could have done to wreck the engine but I guess that might have done it alright

theoldbreed

wexie wrote: »

I couldn't think of anything he could have done to wreck the engine but I guess that might have done it alright

Lol no laps just regular driving. They actually said this evening it is nothing he has done. The engine only had 22,000 miles on it. He said he checked it out and it hadn't been crashed but you don't know. They are being very wishy washy , accepting no responsibility and said they will phone in morning. They have given him a courtesy car. He had just gotten over the engine seizing the first time and now this.

coylemj

theoldbreed wrote: »

I don't know about warranty but Mazda sourced it and fitted it themselves.

As this is the Legal forum, I think it's worth pointing out that your husband is not dealing with 'Mazda', he is dealing with an authorised dealer, an Irish business.

Wait and see what they come up with in terms of a solution. Getting a courtesy car is a small step, it's not necessarily an admission of liability on their part but it's better than a PFO.

shane b

Just curious. Was it a petrol or diesel engine? The diesel version doesnt have a great reputation.

theoldbreed

shane b wrote: »

Just curious. Was it a petrol or diesel engine? The diesel version doesnt have a great reputation.

Yeah it was diesel

wexie

Just did a bit of a trawl round 'tinternet and it would appear there seem to be plenty stories of mazda 6's needing new engines due to issues with the DPF...

More so it seems in the 2008-2012 model

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mazda/6-2008/?section=good/

But plenty to suggest there are still some problems with the newer model as well

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mazda/6-2013/?section=good

I won't link to any forum posts but if you search for Mazda 6 DPF (failure) they shouldn't be hard to find.
I for one would be questioning whether or not the dealer has really never seen this happen before

FelchWivMe

sounds like your husband would be better off driving a hybrid, he's obviously not able to handle the rough and tumble of a manly diesel engine

theoldbreed

coylemj wrote: »

As this is the Legal forum, I think it's worth pointing out that your husband is not dealing with 'Mazda', he is dealing with an authorised dealer, an Irish business.

Wait and see what they come up with in terms of a solution. Getting a courtesy car is a small step, it's not necessarily an admission of liability on their part but it's better than a PFO.

Yes absolutely, fair point. Not Mazda as such no

theoldbreed

FelchWivMe wrote: »

sounds like your husband would be better off driving a hybrid, he's obviously not able to handle the rough and tumble of a manly diesel engine

I'll let him know thanks

LaLa2004

I had trouble with a 1 year old car once. A belt broke - this is the extent of what I was told. I really regret not demanding to talk to the mechanic.

The 3 people in suits at the service desk were worse than useless. One was too smart to admit to anything. Another said there was a lot of sand in the engine area - the car was only driven in the city. Another dope insisted the air conditioner was blocked and that this was the problem. The car was a year old. I always replace the filter at service time due to allergies. I don’t know how a few bits of grit / sand or the air conditioner filter would have broken a belt.

I got the run around. From my €1,000 experience - talk to the mechanic not the suits.

wexie

LaLa2004 wrote: »

I got the run around. From my €1,000 experience - talk to the mechanic not the suits.

The problem with that is that the mechanic could well loose their job for telling the truth, not his job or responsibility.

I worked for a company where we were told in no uncertain terms to never tell a customer something was a 'known issue'.....there were never any 'known issues'...We had a lot of 'known solutions' though...

Actually come to think of it I worked for a few of those companies.

Victor

Depending on the actual problem, are you happy there hasn't been any noxious input - dodgy fuel or other exposure to harsh chemicals.

theoldbreed

Victor wrote: »

Depending on the actual problem, are you happy there hasn't been any noxious input - dodgy fuel or other exposure to harsh chemicals.

No dodgy fuel etc guy in garage said something had come out through side of engine, some sort of bar...as I said he has had the car back for 11 days

SuperS54

Firstly, are you certain a new engine was fitted? Was the log book updated with the new engine number? I ask in case the original engine simply had parts replaced from the donor engine rather than in entirety.

Another possibility is that it was swapped as a "short block" so all the auxiliary parts from the original engine were swapped onto the replacement engine. If one of those parts caused the original issue then it's not unexpected that they caused the second occurrence as well.

In any case, unless they can prove that in someway your husbands driving caused the issue, any respectable garage should stand over an issue like this which occurred so soon after major remedial work.

theoldbreed

SuperS54 wrote: »

Firstly, are you certain a new engine was fitted? Was the log book updated with the new engine number? I ask in case the original engine simply had parts replaced from the donor engine rather than in entirety.

Another possibility is that it was swapped as a "short block" so all the auxiliary parts from the original engine were swapped onto the replacement engine. If one of those parts caused the original issue then it's not unexpected that they caused the second occurrence as well.

In any case, unless they can prove that in someway your husbands driving caused the issue, any respectable garage should stand over an issue like this which occurred so soon after major remedial work.

Yes 100% certain a new engine was fitted. They seem, well yesterday at least, to say it's not his fault or their fault but 11 days and nearly 5000 euro later it's somebody's responsibility. The only solution is another new engine!

They will be calling him this morning, will know more then. We hope, like you say, that they are indeed as respectable as they portray themselves to be and will stand over it.

C3PO

theoldbreed wrote: »

The engine only had 22,000 miles on it. He said he checked it out and it hadn't been crashed but you don't know.

It's hard to think of another scenario, other than a crash, that would produce a used 2016 engine?
One way or the other, it's the garages issue to sort it out and I would be surprised if a Mazda main dealer doesn't do that! If they start messing I would just go to see a solicitor and let them deal with it.

Esel

C3PO wrote: »

It's hard to think of another scenario, other than a crash, that would produce a used 2016 engine?

Fire.

C3PO

Esel wrote:

Fire.

With an intact engine ... a little unlikely I would have thought?

Peregrinus

Events suggest that the engine may not have been as intact as initially supposed!

TheBoyConor

I'd flip the lid with them if that happened me.

Seth Brundle

The simple reality is that a main dealer will *not* have an engine lying around from a 2016 model. Main dealers are unlikely to have any engines lying around! Why would they? IN all likleihood, this used engine was taken from a scrapped car. There is no other reason that an engine would be removed from a two year old model.
If they fitted a used engine then the onus is on them to ensure that it is fit for purpose. It obviously wasn't.
I would demand a rental model for full use whilst they source and install an engine that is for for purpose. You will in all likleihood need a solicitor for this.
Keep receipts of any expenses incurred as a result of this issue and claim them back from the dealership (tell them in advance (in writing preferably) you'll be doing this).

White Clover

LaLa2004 wrote: »

I had trouble with a 1 year old car once. A belt broke - this is the extent of what I was told. I really regret not demanding to talk to the mechanic.

The 3 people in suits at the service desk were worse than useless. One was too smart to admit to anything. Another said there was a lot of sand in the engine area - the car was only driven in the city. Another dope insisted the air conditioner was blocked and that this was the problem. The car was a year old. I always replace the filter at service time due to allergies. I don’t know how a few bits of grit / sand or the air conditioner filter would have broken a belt.

I got the run around. From my €1,000 experience - talk to the mechanic not the suits.

The head mechanic in a main stealer garage who had my car plugged into their diagnostic equipment once told me the turbo was blown in my car and would cost 2k to put right. A quick look under the bonnet by my own mechanic revealed a cracked air pipe....a €50 fix!

ltdslipdiff

Spoke t a Mazda mechanic buddy who will remain nameless, and he says they are having terrible issues with the 2.2 diesel timing chains snapping !

theoldbreed

kbannon wrote: »

The simple reality is that a main dealer will *not* have an engine lying around from a 2016 model. Main dealers are unlikely to have any engines lying around! Why would they? IN all likleihood, this used engine was taken from a scrapped car. There is no other reason that an engine would be removed from a two year old model.
If they fitted a used engine then the onus is on them to ensure that it is fit for purpose. It obviously wasn't.
I would demand a rental model for full use whilst they source and install an engine that is for for purpose. You will in all likleihood need a solicitor for this.
Keep receipts of any expenses incurred as a result of this issue and claim them back from the dealership (tell them in advance (in writing preferably) you'll be doing this).

I really hope they do the decent thing and rectify this and it doesn't go to solicitors but am fully prepared to go down that route

runawaybishop

theoldbreed wrote: »

Yes 100% certain a new engine was fitted. They seem, well yesterday at least, to say it's not his fault or their fault but 11 days and nearly 5000 euro later it's somebody's responsibility. The only solution is another new engine!

They will be calling him this morning, will know more then. We hope, like you say, that they are indeed as respectable as they portray themselves to be and will stand over it.

Is this the dealers you originally bought the car from and who subsequently repaired it first? It was all done under warranty?

theoldbreed

runawaybishop wrote: »

Is this the dealers you originally bought the car from and who subsequently repaired it first? It was all done under warranty?

No it wasn't bought from them but always been serviced there and the first engine replacement was sourced and fitted by them.

theoldbreed

Just to let you all know what has happened. The place where the garage sourced the engine have completely washed their hands of responsibility but the manager said that they are dealing with that and they will replace the engine and fit it etc and it will be of no cost to us. They were a bit wishy washy at first but the manager seems decent and we're relieved we don't have to go down the route of simi and solicitors.
Thank you to everyone for their advice.

SuperS54

Curiosity killed the cat and all that, but what happened in the end?

Pat Mustard

theoldbreed wrote: »

Just to let you all know what has happened. The place where the garage sourced the engine have completely washed their hands of responsibility but the manager said that they are dealing with that and they will replace the engine and fit it etc and it will be of no cost to us. They were a bit wishy washy at first but the manager seems decent and we're relieved we don't have to go down the route of simi and solicitors.
Thank you to everyone for their advice.

I would get a motor assessor (rather than a mechanic) to inspect the car now and again after it has been repaired. I wouldn't take another chance at this stage, given that two successive engines have failed.