Freelance work

cobzzq

What are some of the best websites for freelance work and how reliably are they.

Axwell

Upwork and PeoplePerHour are probably 2 of the main ones at the minute. But you will find with them and most others that it is a race to the bottom and the money people are offering for work to be done is way too low for what they want done.

ironclaw

Axwell wrote: »

Upwork and PeoplePerHour are probably 2 of the main ones at the minute. But you will find with them and most others that it is a race to the bottom and the money people are offering for work to be done is way too low for what they want done.

This is very sound advice. If you want to build WordPress sites for 100USD per pop, I'd suggest you list on UpWork. Can you get good gigs? Yes. Will you work for them? Yes. You'll do well if you have a reasonably specialised toolset and your potential clients would think of even looking there in the first place. If you are looking for website building and digital marketing, it's not worth it.

Your time, in my opinion, would be better spent forging your own connections and network.

Digital_Guy

Axwell wrote: »

Upwork and PeoplePerHour are probably 2 of the main ones at the minute. But you will find with them and most others that it is a race to the bottom and the money people are offering for work to be done is way too low for what they want done.

ironclaw wrote: »

This is very sound advice. If you want to build WordPress sites for 100USD per pop, I'd suggest you list on UpWork. Can you get good gigs? Yes. Will you work for them? Yes. You'll do well if you have a reasonably specialised toolset and your potential clients would think of even looking there in the first place. If you are looking for website building and digital marketing, it's not worth it.

Your time, in my opinion, would be better spent forging your own connections and network.

This isn't actually the case, it can be if you want to play the price game, but it is such a gigantic platform that there is plenty of room for people who go in and know their worth.

I know of one copywriter with an hourly rate of around $100 and a five star rating across dozens of jobs. It's all about how you position yourself and you can start at a certain rate, get great reviews and then raise your rates from there.

I would say think of it as a tool, there are loads of ways of picking up freelance work and Upwork is just one.

Axwell

What you are describing is very very rare and I would doubt they are making a full time sustainable wage from that alone, and the number of jobs they get at that rate are few and far between over the course of a year.

To get jobs on these sites you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel when pitching as you are up against other prople you simply cannot compete with. It becomes a load of your time for little or no money to get a few reviews and to up your prices while still competing with people undercutting you left right and centre. You will never be in a position where you can advertise your services at a decent rate and have people come to you, it will always be a case of pitching for jobs and low balling. Making a living off it is next to impossible and even having it as one part of your income you will quickly find that for the time you put in your arent making enough.

OP focus on building your own network and client base from local businesses. You will get paid more and word of mouth and happy customer testimonails will help grow your client base.

ironclaw

I think a huge focus that many freelancers miss is recurring revenue. There is very little value in getting one-off gigs in the long term, as you are constantly looking for the next one. And if a contract or two falls through, or runs over, your goose is cooked. Its why I generally advocate getting a solid group of clients who pay you on a regular basis like a retainer. If you have the capacity, you can seek a new one-off / short-term gig. You have nigh guaranteed cash flow and you are engaged for long enough to make a difference. You're capacity to charge also greatly increases.

Anyone looking for a website built for $500 on UpWork really doesn't care what you deliver and the hassle you'll endure for that just isn't worth it as you'll be poles apart at every turn.

Digital_Guy

Axwell wrote: »

What you are describing is very very rare and I would doubt they are making a full time sustainable wage from that alone, and the number of jobs they get at that rate are few and far between over the course of a year.

To get jobs on these sites you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel when pitching as you are up against other prople you simply cannot compete with. It becomes a load of your time for little or no money to get a few reviews and to up your prices while still competing with people undercutting you left right and centre. You will never be in a position where you can advertise your services at a decent rate and have people come to you, it will always be a case of pitching for jobs and low balling. Making a living off it is next to impossible and even having it as one part of your income you will quickly find that for the time you put in your arent making enough.

OP focus on building your own network and client base from local businesses. You will get paid more and word of mouth and happy customer testimonails will help grow your client base.

That's only the case if you're operating in the same space as the low-ballers and low quality freelancers. A top quality freelancer who knows there stuff, has experience and knows their worth isn't going to be in the same ballpark as these guys.

Very very rare - I really doubt it By definition that couldn't be true because it's such a massive platform. There are thousands of people making a good living on these sites - full time or otherwise - and it took me less than a minute there to find a WordPress developer with the following stats:

$70.00
Hourly Rate

$50k+
Total earned

62
Jobs

934
Hours worked

And based in Sweden!

If you plan to compete on price, forget about it unless you want to get frustrated and / or work for pennies. But if you want to do what I mention above, there is no end of high paying work on there. I'm a client myself and happy to pay good rates for quality work.

Again, you don't have to make these sites your sole focus unless you want to, but they are a great tool. I'd use them in combination with the other sources of work you mention, as well as other streams.

Fukuyama

Would be very interested in hearing any advice other freelancers have on building a local network.

I went back to a regular Dev job as I got fed up low balling in Upwork. Very little chance to build a network on there.

Right now I develop mobile apps (iOS and Android) and backend systems for them (Python/Django). I'd love to freelance building MVPs for people who have ideas but face the usual chicken/egg problem.

ironclaw

To me, those numbers are pretty poor. Assuming its their full time gig, and no other earnings, its 53USD (43EUR) per hour. Tax rate in Sweden is pretty high, nearly 50% in cases, so that cuts down to 20EUR per hour, plus a really high cost of living.

Average monthly salary in Sweden is 2,890EUR, or 34,680EUR. Devs are on far more, especially in Stockholm when I was there. Even an IT grad salary in Ireland beats it. So your level of effort to be a freelancer is paying the same as someone who just has to turn up in an office. Your outlay will also be higher as you'll have overheads an office job doesn't (Healthcare, tax etc)

It's great money if you are on a beach in Thailand, it's terrible if you are living in Europe. Thats another thing to consider. Being a freelancer or digital nomad gives you immense freedom, and the money can be good, but you'll struggle to reach the same salary scales as someone who stays in industry and works the ladder so to speak. You'll earn more in the first few years than your peers, but you'll likely stagnate and certainly loose your work circle to really level up. That's excluding exceptions like being the best of the best or starting your own firm that does well.

In terms of network building, I just seek out individuals in similar sectors. Ask them for a coffee, chat through their business and be open with your intention e.g. "Hey, saw what you were doing in the sector, really liked it, I have a shared interest, fancy a chat?" Anyone worth working with, in my experience, is nearly always open to the idea of chat about their business. They might have an opening they need help with, may they are expanding or maybe they have a connection that would work well for you. I've had far more meaningful relationships come out of this that cold calls and emails, people are bombarded these days, be more genuine and human.