Ireland Vs the world

househero

I travel. Why is property in Ireland really really cheap.

Crappy towns in China, Thailand, Malaysia India all shifting tiny apartments in next decades social slums for over €200k. If you want a normal house in an international city in these places you had better have a mill. Canada, new Zealand, Australia, multi million city houses are the norm.

Where else do you know of that has cheap houses like Ireland?

DubJJ

What a load of tripe

myshirt

Hey, it's all relative. There are MD's in Financial Services in New York who struggle on 2-4mil a year.

Eric Cartman

myshirt wrote: »

Hey, it's all relative. There are MD's in Financial Services in New York who struggle on 2-4mil a year.

+1

The Silicon Valley wages arms race is hilarious, sounds like complete madness to pay a software developer $150k a year , but suddenly the $4000 rent for a 1 bed apartment, $300 for your weekly shopping for 1 and $8 coffee's leave you living the same standard of life and the same level of brokeness as a 35k job in Ireland living in Dublin.

Bob24

househero wrote: »

Crappy towns in China, Thailand, Malaysia India all shifting tiny apartments in next decades social slums for over €200k.

Probably a troll post but I’ll reply anyway on the specific point I know about:

Define crappy town?

I have knowledge of the property market in a Chinese provincial capital with a population of 7 millions where you can get a two beds not too far from the downtown area for 50-100k (in the north east, not the area doing the best economically but definitely not a “crappy town” or a “slum”)

Of course there are Chinese cities where it is way more than that (Beijing or Shanghai are mandness). But unless you call crappy anything but the top 20ish cities your statement sounds incorrect.

DubJJ

Eric Cartman wrote: »

+1

The Silicon Valley wages arms race is hilarious, sounds like complete madness to pay a software developer $150k a year , but suddenly the $4000 rent for a 1 bed apartment, $300 for your weekly shopping for 1 and $8 coffee's leave you living the same standard of life and the same level of brokeness as a 35k job in Ireland living in Dublin.

Why would there shopping be $300 a week for a single person?
Walmart in Silicone Valley isn't going to be dramatically more than Walmart elsewhere?

Eric Cartman

DubJJ wrote: »

Why would there showing be $300 a week for a single person?
Walmart in Silicone Valley isn't going to be dramatically more than Walmart elsewhere?

Theres no walmart in downtown san fransisco, a pack of 2 chicken fillets is $10 in a downtown grocery store

Moonbeam

I don't think it is.
Look at the UK and US if you are going to generalise then property is way cheaper in both.
Property in NI is way cheaper then Ireland too.

I am currently house hunting in Oslo,it is painful.

jon1981

Eric Cartman wrote: »

+1

The Silicon Valley wages arms race is hilarious, sounds like complete madness to pay a software developer $150k a year , but suddenly the $4000 rent for a 1 bed apartment, $300 for your weekly shopping for 1 and $8 coffee's leave you living the same standard of life and the same level of brokeness as a 35k job in Ireland living in Dublin.

This is fact , areas such as West Oakland miles out from San Fran city are seeing 1bed apartments reaching well above 2.5k a month. West Oakland wouldn't have been considered a safe place but it's changing as professionals look to rent there because of the madness in San Fran.

Samuel T. Cogley

People have convinced themselves Ireland is expensive, just like they've convinced themselves the Irish education system is brilliant. It's the typical thing of say it enough times and it must be true. You only need to have Location, Location, Location on to see the UK tends to be way more expensive than all but the most desirable or huge properties in Dublin.

robp

househero wrote: »

I travel. Why is property in Ireland really really cheap.

Crappy towns in China, Thailand, Malaysia India all shifting tiny apartments in next decades social slums for over €200k. If you want a normal house in an international city in these places you had better have a mill. Canada, new Zealand, Australia, multi million city houses are the norm.

Where else do you know of that has cheap houses like Ireland?

I have been to districts of Mumbai that make Dublin feel cheap but I think they are rather rare.

L1011

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

People have convinced themselves Ireland is expensive, just like they've convinced themselves the Irish education system is brilliant. It's the typical thing of say it enough times and it must be true. You only need to have Location, Location, Location on to see the UK tends to be way more expensive than all but the most desirable or huge properties in Dublin.

The areas of regional UK that are dearer than Dublin are all similar to Foxrock really. There are just more of them, which you'd expect in a larger country

Property in Dublin is dearer than it should be based on earnings; not being as much dearer than London or other cities is not something to boast about.

Central premium apartments are going to be dear anywhere; and international comparisons to other central premium apartments are basically irrelevant. Its the inner suburbs where people want to live that are comically priced here.

jon1981

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/bidding-on-cairn-homes-apartments-hits-96m-36807398.html


120 apartments at €750,000 and €800,000 per unit sold. Biggest bidder? REITs. These guys see a bright future in the rental market in Dublin anyway!

Samuel T. Cogley

L1011 wrote: »

The areas of regional UK that are dearer than Dublin are all similar to Foxrock really. There are just more of them, which you'd expect in a larger country

They're really, really not.

L1011 wrote: »

Property in Dublin is dearer than it should be based on earnings; not being as much dearer than London or other cities is not something to boast about.

Maybe so based on earnings but that doesn't make it expensive in comparison to vast swathes of the UK and other comparable European cities.

L1011 wrote: »

Central premium apartments are going to be dear anywhere; and international comparisons to other central premium apartments are basically irrelevant. Its the inner suburbs where people want to live that are comically priced here.

Again not only are they not in comparison to similar cities it's only South Co. Dublin, which is driven by property snobbery that's frankly much more rife in Ireland than the UK.

Bob24

jon1981 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/bidding-on-cairn-homes-apartments-hits-96m-36807398.html


120 apartments at €750,000 and €800,000 per unit sold. Biggest bidder? REITs. These guys see a bright future in the rental market in Dublin anyway!

Thanks for the link I was wondering about this.

What's unreasonable for the country (not for the developers of for REITs) is that none of the new builds in the docklands seem to be sold on the open market. With all the residential units in Capital Dock are already to be retained as rental units for employees of the companies who occupy the the commercial units and now this, it seems like some who wants one of the many new build apartments in the area as an individual won't have much to look at. I know it is not your regular area, but still leaving all new residential units in the hand of developers and REITs sound wrong to me.

L1011

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

They're really, really not.

Show me the ones that *aren't*

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

T
Maybe so based on earnings but that doesn't make it expensive in comparison to vast swathes of the UK and other comparable European cities.

Based on earnings is all that is relevant. What surreal equivalent metric have you invented?

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

T
Again not only are they not in comparison to similar cities it's only South Co. Dublin, which is driven by property snobbery that's frankly much more rife in Ireland than the UK.

D15 equivalents in most European cities are more affordable than D15 actually is. Its not just Ross O'Carroll Kelly land.

Samuel T. Cogley

L1011 wrote: »

Show me the ones that *aren't*

You made, that rather ridiculous, claim. You back it up.

L1011 wrote: »

Based on earnings is all that is relevant. What surreal equivalent metric have you invented?

The premise of the thread.

L1011 wrote: »

D15 equivalents in most European cities are more affordable than D15 actually is. Its not just Ross O'Carroll Kelly land.

Can you define that or give examples? Genuine question. We're talking a suburb 15km from cc with good services?

househero

Bob24 wrote: »

Define crappy town?

.

Birmingham? Big enough to be good, but ugly and depressing to be stuck in.

It's a serious question, I hear my friends regurgitate Irish newspaper opinion on the high prices here when I know if I compared a dub semi with a garden for 600k to a house in an Asian city worth living in, I'd need 1mill+

Im not even comparing us to London or New York, but Asian cities where a comparable wage is 4 times less for an identical position.

L1011

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You made, that rather ridiculous, claim. You back it up.



The premise of the thread.



Can you define that or give examples? Genuine question. We're talking a suburb 15km from cc with good services?

No proof, no basis. Thanks.

The requirement of proof here is on you and you reject it thrice. Because you haven't got a shred.

Samuel T. Cogley

L1011 wrote: »

No proof, no basis. Thanks.

The requirement of proof here is on you and you reject it thrice. Because you haven't got a shred.

You made a claim that the UK's suburbs that are more expensive than Dublin suburbs are all like Foxrock. I asked for you to proof, you rejected it. So your point is defeated there.

You got the premise of the thread wrong, in trying to frame it for earnings, which while the accepted metric is not what the OP asked for, they simply said in comparison to their travels Ireland is not expensive. It patently isn't in comparison. You're simply not answering the question there.

I asked you to simply define what you mean by D15 I was perfectly willing to engage with you there, your only relevant and non-hyperbolic (is that even a word?) point. But you refuse.

househero

Moonbeam wrote: »

I am currently house hunting in Oslo,it is painful.

Cool, how much are you looking at? And what do you get for your money?

Friends in the UK pay mad prices for terrible Victorian or post war box's, unless picking a house in a deprived or troubled area which is cheap. Although England prices are all a bit skewed with the drop in exchange.

L1011

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You made a claim that the UK's suburbs that are more expensive than Dublin suburbs are all like Foxrock. I asked for you to proof, you rejected it. So your point is defeated there.

You got the premise of the thread wrong, in trying to frame it for earnings, which while the accepted metric is not what the OP asked for, they simply said in comparison to their travels Ireland is not expensive. It patently isn't in comparison. You're simply not answering the question there.

I asked you to simply define what you mean by D15 I was perfectly willing to engage with you there, your only relevant and non-hyperbolic (is that even a word?) point. But you refuse.

You are the one defending ideas that Dublin is cheaper, not me.

What basis for dearer is there beyond earnings? You seem to like this one so you have to have one. Have you any other metric for affordability?

If you need a definition of D15, I despair for the education system

Samuel T. Cogley

L1011 wrote: »

You are the one defending ideas that Dublin is cheaper, not me.

What basis for dearer is there beyond earnings? You seem to like this one so you have to have one. Have you any other metric for affordability?

If you need a definition of D15, I despair for the education system

Points one and two have been covered. I asked for your definition of D15. I'd draw a comparison of somewhere like Bicester, Banbury or Banbridge as I'm familiar with those areas. You'll no doubt tell me that's wrong for X,Y reasons, so I'm simply asking for you to put some meat on the bones of your argument at which point I'll happily take a look.

Sorry that asking you to back up your assertions is proving so difficult.

Franz Von Peppercorn

househero wrote: »

I travel. Why is property in Ireland really really cheap.

Crappy towns in China, Thailand, Malaysia India all shifting tiny apartments in next decades social slums for over €200k. If you want a normal house in an international city in these places you had better have a mill. Canada, new Zealand, Australia, multi million city houses are the norm.

Where else do you know of that has cheap houses like Ireland?

Most of Europe is cheaper. Most of the US. Most of the U.K. for that matter.

The three countries you mentioned are in a bubble.

L1011

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Points one and two have been covered. I asked for your definition of D15. I'd draw a comparison of somewhere like Bicester, Banbury or Banbridge as I'm familiar with those areas. You'll no doubt tell me that's wrong for X,Y reasons, so I'm simply asking for you to put some meat on the bones of your argument at which point I'll happily take a look.

Sorry that asking you to back up your assertions is proving so difficult.

D15 is a postcode. It is clearly defined.

You still haven't given the most basic morsel of evidence for your claims I see. That legal career may become challenging.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

+1

The Silicon Valley wages arms race is hilarious, sounds like complete madness to pay a software developer $150k a year , but suddenly the $4000 rent for a 1 bed apartment, $300 for your weekly shopping for 1 and $8 coffee's leave you living the same standard of life and the same level of brokeness as a 35k job in Ireland living in Dublin.

They rarely cook in fact. But that’s accurate enough.

Bob24

househero wrote: »

Birmingham? Big enough to be good, but ugly and depressing to be stuck in.

It's a serious question, I hear my friends regurgitate Irish newspaper opinion on the high prices here when I know if I compared a dub semi with a garden for 600k to a house in an Asian city worth living in, I'd need 1mill+

Im not even comparing us to London or New York, but Asian cities where a comparable wage is 4 times less for an identical position.

You were only quoting developing Asian countries in your original post related to that statement. Can you mention an exemple of what you would call "crappy towns in China [...] shifting tiny apartments in next decades social slums for over €200k".

I'm picking China as I know the place and it honestly sounds like a strange statement to me. These prices (or higher) do exist in some cities of 5 to 20 millions which are all massive economic hubs, especially in eastern cities between Beijing and Hong Kong. But I wouldn't call any of these "crappy town".

Samuel T. Cogley

L1011 wrote: »

D15 is a postcode. It is clearly defined.

You still haven't given the most basic morsel of evidence for your claims I see. That legal career may become challenging.

Ah the ad hominem pettiness starts, nice.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

People have convinced themselves Ireland is expensive, just like they've convinced themselves the Irish education system is brilliant. It's the typical thing of say it enough times and it must be true. You only need to have Location, Location, Location on to see the UK tends to be way more expensive than all but the most desirable or huge properties in Dublin.

Nonsense. Only london is more expensive.

Samuel T. Cogley

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Nonsense. Only london is more expensive.

Than Dublin?

Oxfordshire, Home Counties, Edinburgh, Manchester, Cheshire...

Edit: Genuinely willing to be convinced here Franz - my experience is Dublin is not as expensive as most of the UK major cities.

L1011

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Ah the ad hominem pettiness starts, nice.

Because you are making ridiculous claims and don't even understand Dublin postcodes, it is quite reasonable to assume you don't know what you are talking about

Samuel T. Cogley

L1011 wrote: »

Because you are making ridiculous claims and don't even understand Dublin postcodes, it is quite reasonable to assume you don't know what you are talking about

You and I both know that's not the situation here. I'd have expected better from a mod frankly. As for ridiculous claims, the UK is full of Foxrocks, LOL.

L1011

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You and I both know that's not the situation here. I'd have expected better from a mod frankly.

Its rather critical when you are making arguments about Dublin property prices

You don't know what you're talking about, and should not be making arguments from a basis that you do. If you don't know what D15 refers to you don't know Dublin.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Than Dublin?

Oxfordshire, Home Counties, Edinburgh, Manchester, Cheshire...

The average house price in Manchester is £ 187538. Edinburgh is fairly expensive at £286000 per house but cheaper than Dublin.

Then there’s Bristol,Liverpool, Glasgow, Newcastle, Sheffield, all of Wales, the rest of Scotland, most coastal towns and entire areas that are forgotten when Dublin is compared to New York, or Singapore or London or Edinburgh or whatever.

househero

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The three countries you mentioned are in a bubble.

And yes kind of, but is it a bubble if it has lasted 20 years. Or is it just the new normal, like Ireland before the euro when you could get a house for less than a BMW.

India & China account for 1/3 of the world. They are a good comparison of the global 'norm' by their populations alone.

Samuel T. Cogley

L1011 wrote: »

Its rather critical when you are making arguments about Dublin property prices

You don't know what you're talking about, and should not be making arguments from a basis that you do. If you don't know what D15 refers to you don't know Dublin.

It's not critical at all - get a hold of yourself. The OP was borderline trolling.

How many times do I need to cover I was asking for you to define what you wanted from a comparison. You brought up D15 I suggested some comparisons.

Clearly you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Samuel T. Cogley

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The average house price in Manchester is £ 187538. Edinburgh is fairly expensive at £286000 per house but cheaper than Dublin.

Then there’s Bristol,Liverpool, Glasgow, Newcastle, Sheffield, all of Wales, the rest of Scotland, most coastal towns and entire areas that are forgotten when Dublin is compared to New York, or Singapore or whatever.

I think it's compared like that due to the scale of the city. There's some sort of financial index I'll see if I can dig it out. Dublin is Alpha Minus or Beta plus isn't it? Melbourne being a comparable rather than the like of Wales or Rural Scotland in fairness.

Edit: Does anyone have that index I can't remember what it's called it's been linked in the forum before.

L1011

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It's not critical at all - get a hold of yourself. The OP was borderline trolling.

How many times do I need to cover I was asking for you to define what you wanted from a comparison. You brought up D15 I suggested some comparisons.

Clearly you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

You didn't know what D15 meant. Scrabbling for cover doesn't help.

I don't see any point in replying further when the UK* is all you want to talk about. You don't have the vaguest clue about Dublin prices and everyone can see that.

*and yet, when asked to give UK examples for something, you didn't

Samuel T. Cogley

L1011 wrote: »

You didn't know what D15 meant. Scrabbling for cover doesn't help.

I don't see any point in replying further when the UK* is all you want to talk about. You don't have the vaguest clue about Dublin prices and everyone can see that.

*and yet, when asked to give UK examples for something, you didn't

Duck out, good idea.

Samuel T. Cogley

Closest I could find this this - probably a good indicator is the comparable German cities?

No idea where this is but 1 bed in Munich there at 220K. You'd get a 1 bed 36sqm apartment in Dublin under that (just).

cnocbui

Just be thankful the Chinese aren't interested in property in Dublin.

househero

cnocbui wrote: »

Just be thankful the Chinese aren't interested in property in Dublin.

Yes that IS my point. They WILL be.

They will perceive 'normal' prices for a nice apartment with European standards WAY higher than what we want to pay.

In a tier 2 city in India, you get a (tiny) 2/3 bed apartment for €250k+ its nowhere near town and advertised as having 'running water' as if it has a jacuzzi balcony overlooking at Stephens green. The building standards make Celtic tiger houses look space age. But what you get has a cost of about 30k

Eric Cartman

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The average house price in Manchester is £ 187538. Edinburgh is fairly expensive at £286000 per house but cheaper than Dublin.

Then there’s Bristol,Liverpool, Glasgow, Newcastle, Sheffield, all of Wales, the rest of Scotland, most coastal towns and entire areas that are forgotten when Dublin is compared to New York, or Singapore or London or Edinburgh or whatever.

Sheffield should only be equated to say the bad parts of east wall / D1, saying most of wales is like saying most of cavan/donegal/monaghan

Franz Von Peppercorn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Sheffield should only be equated to say the bad parts of east wall / D1, saying most of wales is like saying most of cavan/donegal/monaghan

Except Cardiff is a city of ~500k and Cavan town isn’t.

Anyway I quoted more than 1 area or city.

I don’t buy this alpha city nonsense. Dublin is like Newcastle with Facebook and worse traffic. And Facebook isn’t hers for ever.

Moonbeam

househero wrote: »

Cool, how much are you looking at? And what do you get for your money?

Friends in the UK pay mad prices for terrible Victorian or post war box's, unless picking a house in a deprived or troubled area which is cheap. Although England prices are all a bit skewed with the drop in exchange.

A 4 bed house within half an hour of the city,they have 82% ownership and don't have large families so the rental market is a nightmare for me.
It seems to be about 3k pm for a 4 bed on the train/T and 30-40 minutes out.

Samuel T. Cogley

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Except Cardiff is a city of ~500k and Cavan town isn’t.

Anyway I quoted more than 1 area or city.

I don’t buy this alpha city nonsense. Dublin is like Newcastle with Facebook and worse traffic. And Facebook isn’t hers for ever.

We're considered a Global Financial centre, I've no axe to grind here, if someone wants to show me how we're not then fair enough but I have to say I agree with the OP's premise we're not as expensive as everyone makes out we are. Now affordability is a different story and of course I'd love to see a city where everyone can afford to buy a home.

Swansea (metro) isn't tiny either in fairness.

The uk is a much bigger market, and while there can be good value you wont find somewhere in a good area of the major cities cheap.


in a city like Liverpool which is not an expensive city the posh/nice bits are not cheap. Its the same everywhere.

DubJJ

I'm sorry but to be comparing Dublin to the likes of Singapore and London is ridiculous.

We're a regional capital within the EU and should be comparing ourselves to cities such as Cardiff, Edinburgh and Manchester. Compared to all of these we are bloody expensive.

robp

DubJJ wrote: »

I'm sorry but to be comparing Dublin to the likes of Singapore and London is ridiculous.

We're a regional capital within the EU and should be comparing ourselves to cities such as Cardiff, Edinburgh and Manchester. Compared to all of these we are bloody expensive.

Dublin salaries are significantly higher than in Cardiff. While the difference may not fully explain the expensiveness of Dublin, the possibility of lower population growth in Cardiff and fewer MNC might explain the rest.

Diarmuid

Ireland vs Rest of Europe

In 2016 only UK and France was more expensive. With our house price inflation running rampant since then, I suspect we are now ahead of France.

It also has the numbers for selected cities. Confirms that Dublin was more expensive than most European cities in 2016

JupiterKid

Dublin is the capital city of a small EU country so would compare to cities like Copenhagen and Prague. It is NOT an Alpha world city. Anyone who believes so is really deluded.

It is also grossly overpriced in terms of housing for a city of its size and status because of a dysfunctional planning system that is restricting high density housing provision and a laissez faire right wing neoliberal government who don’t see the need for a proper social housing provision programme.

Plus public transport is generally poor.