Chimney flue liner

Nealmeehan

Hi I have read several threads on here but can’t seem to get an answer to my question so here goes hopefully someone can help me

I have a big open fireplace which is very smokey I do have an extractor fan on the top of it to remove the smoke but it is very noisy so my question is I have an 8 inch flue liner in it at present. Can I put in one or two more 8 inch flues to service the fireplace and thus increase the total area of the of the flue or will this work at all

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Robbie.G

Nealmeehan wrote: »

Hi I have read several threads on here but can’t seem to get an answer to my question so here goes hopefully someone can help me

I have a big open fireplace which is very smokey I do have an extractor fan on the top of it to remove the smoke but it is very noisy so my question is I have an 8 inch flue liner in it at present. Can I put in one or two more 8 inch flues to service the fireplace and thus increase the total area of the of the flue or will this work at all

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Generally speaking you need to increase the height of the flue
Does it smoke if you open a window
Is it ventilation you need or more height

Nealmeehan

Hi Robbie g

I don’t think it is height I need as the chimney is over 7.5 meters tall. I have plenty of ventilation in the room also and opening a door or window makes no difference to it. I do have an extractor fan on the top of it but this is noisy and you can only light a small fire with it as it will still smoke with the fan on if you put down anything kind of descent fire.

Robbie.G

Nealmeehan wrote: »

Hi Robbie g

I don’t think it is height I need as the chimney is over 7.5 meters tall. I have plenty of ventilation in the room also and opening a door or window makes no difference to it. I do have an extractor fan on the top of it but this is noisy and you can only light a small fire with it as it will still smoke with the fan on if you put down anything kind of descent fire.

As I said generally chimney height it doesn’t matter how high it is it needs to be outside of a low pressure zone
Useful info here explains what I’m talking about
https://solidfuel.co.uk/

Nealmeehan

Hi Robert G

Thanks for the info I have red it all and think that the flue in my chimney is too small for the opening I am not in a high pressure zone or don’t have any down draft. So just wondering then to increase the size of the flue can I put in 2 8inch flies serving the one fireplace or would this work

Robbie.G

Nealmeehan wrote: »

Hi Robert G

Thanks for the info I have red it all and think that the flue in my chimney is too small for the opening I am not in a high pressure zone or don’t have any down draft. So just wondering then to increase the size of the flue can I put in 2 8inch flies serving the one fireplace or would this work

The standard size for an open fire is 8 in flue liners
What’s in yours and exactly what type of fireplace do you have
A picture or two is worth a thousand words
If you can post pics

Nealmeehan

Hi my fireplace measures 1400mm wide by 1200 mm high the flue liner is 8 inches not sure how to post pictures on here but it is an old style open fireplace like in the old traditional farmhouse

Wearb

Robbie.G wrote: »

The standard size for an open fire is 8 in flue liners
What’s in yours and exactly what type of fireplace do you have
A picture or two is worth a thousand words
If you can post pics

Upload pics to Dropbox or some other file sharing site and pm the links to me and I will display them here.

my3cents

The problem could be at the bottom of the fire. There is also a ratio which I can't remember of the fire opening to the chimney diameter. If you have a big wide high fireplace the air flow could be all wrong. Its possible for there to be a good draw at the top of the fire place but next to none at the bottom, same can happen at the sides. Try temporarily blanking off all but 18inch by 24inch area of the fire with a sheet of steel and then lighting a small fire to see if that works better.

my3cents

Nealmeehan wrote: »

Hi my fireplace measures 1400mm wide by 1200 mm high the flue liner is 8 inches not sure how to post pictures on here but it is an old style open fireplace like in the old traditional farmhouse

Missed that as I was posting earlier looks like the size of the fireplace is the problem. For that size you need unfeasibly large chimney and huge air movement - a stove would be a better idea.

Edit> If you really like the idea of an open fire there are some companies that sell a fireplace that has the necessary air flow and fits inside yours but is still big enough to give you the big open fire effect. You can also put in a massive stove and when required just open the doors up, not the most efficient use of a stove but depends if you are going for heat or that open fire look?

Robbie.G

Nealmeehan wrote: »

Hi my fireplace measures 1400mm wide by 1200 mm high the flue liner is 8 inches not sure how to post pictures on here but it is an old style open fireplace like in the old traditional farmhouse

That’s what’s referred to as an inglenook fireplace
The amount of ventilation that’s required is massive to make it work properly
I’m not sure if the exact requirements but it’s large

Robbie.G

More info here

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/inglenook-fireplaces/

my3cents

Calculator for the ratio I mentioned here http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/fireplace-calculator.asp .

In old money the OP needs a square chimney with internal sides of a foot and a half or a round pipe or a 24 inch diameter pipe, use the calculator if you want the actual dimensions in mm.

A small child even a very fat one for sweeping might also be handy.

Wearb

Chimney pics from Nealmeehan

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9o2d79ab1q7d2gi/Photo%2011-04-2018%2C%2009%2033%2049.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bgm64d56z0qbm82/Photo%2011-04-2018%2C%2009%2034%2005.jpg?dl=0

my3cents

Looks great but one look also tells me it would never work, I've friends in the UK with similar fireplaces (one house I know has 5 inglenook fireplaces) and I've seen similar problems. They are often just used as a decorative feature or have a stove fitted. I wonder if the OP's fireplace once had some form of range in it and the 8 inch flue was installed for the range? I suspect the chimney was originally about 2 foot square, ours for a similar hearth starts off about 3ft by 2ft at the opening of the chimney and tapers down to about 2ft by 2ft at the top. We have the whole bottom bricked up (not by us) and have a stove out in the room and that works fine.

Before I changed the chimney I'd try blanking off various parts of the fireplace. You might find you could make up a big sheet of steel hinged at the back edge of the mantle that folds back into the fireplace when not in use and folds down when you have a fire to reduce the height of the opening of the fireplace and add wings that close a bit of the fire off. You could probably reduce the opening by a 2/3rds.

Another possibility is to make up a heavy hood (it will get very hot) that comes down over the top of the fire bit like putting a funnel upside down over it.

I wouldn't grantee either will work and anything you try is going to be on a suck it and see bases. Its wrong and you need to find a compromise that works. A stove will work and that fireplace would look good with an old range in it although you'd need to cut some of the stones at the sides out. Have a look at the Antique Stanley "Colleen" here. Check handfenterprises.ie (no connection) for other ranges.

Nealmeehan

Thanks a mill for all the help really appreciate it i am going to try some of the options ye have given me I tried the website to calculate the flue opening and it tells me I need an flue of square with 600mm sides or a round flue of 600mm diameter. Just one other question have tried all over the place and can’t get flue liners in this size so can I put in two flies of 300 mm in diameter or would this work at all

Thanks

my3cents

Nealmeehan wrote: »

Thanks a mill for all the help really appreciate it i am going to try some of the options ye have given me I tried the website to calculate the flue opening and it tells me I need an flue of square with 600mm sides or a round flue of 600mm diameter. Just one other question have tried all over the place and can’t get flue liners in this size so can I put in two flies of 300 mm in diameter or would this work at all

Thanks

You can't get flue liners that size, from what I have read the largest is 300mm.

I honestly think you are making a mistake here. The sort of fire you are trying to create needs a massive chimney which will also take most of the heat of the fire up it. The reason for inglenook fireplaces (yours isn't really and inglenook in the strict sense) is to be able to sit a whole group around the fire because if you weren't up close you wouldn't get much benefit.

Then the fire basket you have at the bottom is too small to burn much and create much heat so even less heat in the room.

So what I am saying a big chimney makes sense if you have a really big hearth and burn huge logs.

Personally I'd not be happy putting in two liners of 300mm don't know why but just doesn't seem right

Do you need a liner? Can you just clean the old chimney out and reline the walls where its damaged. It looks like it could be big enough to climb up in and line with bricks? If you could do that then you still have the issue of a comparatively small fire.

The reason for suggesting a stove or range is that they will work whereas getting an open fire to work is very hit and miss.

Nealmeehan

I think at this stage I will just put a stove in it the house is only 10 years old and when we were building it we wanted the original fireplace back in it there is no room to re line the chimney our only option is to put in a stove or take down the whole chimney and re build it from the ground up

my3cents

Nealmeehan wrote: »

I think at this stage I will just put a stove in it the house is only 10 years old and when we were building it we wanted the original fireplace back in it there is no room to re line the chimney our only option is to put in a stove or take down the whole chimney and re build it from the ground up

Ah! I assumed from the picture and the words farmhouse that it was a really old place missed where you said "like an old farmhouse".

Nealmeehan

Ya it is a new build we had an old farmhouse on the site which we knocked and we rebuilt the new house the same size and style minus the walls which were about 6 feet wide. Was hoping to keep the open fire like the old house but don’t think this is an option at this stage

my3cents

Do you need heat from a fire in that room?

Is it more a focal point than a necessary heat source?

I don't like the idea much but I've seen a few stove installs where they have put the stove up high and have to say they look and work well. I was wondering if in your fireplace that would work with a slab of decent stone across the "wings" either side of the current open fire? Then use under the stove for the storing fuel.

Nealmeehan

No don’t really need heat from it just love the feel of an open fire

my3cents

Nealmeehan wrote: »

No don’t really need heat from it just love the feel of an open fire

So a stove is really a last resort then?

We only have fires for heat but I wouldn't go back to an open fire unless it was a huge affair that burnt tree trunks rather than logs. The logistics of providing timber for a fire like that along with its total lack of efficiency make that a non runner.

I just love the dry radiated heat you get from a good stove, heat is heat but its just not the same for me as the heat that comes from a rad.

Don't forget with a stove you should really put a liner inside that chimney.

Nealmeehan

Have been in a few houses with stoves and they give off great heat. With all the info I have now. I think my only option is a stove. So I am going to go down that route

my3cents

Now I mentioned earlier an insert for an open fronted big fireplace and finally found them online. Jetmaster was the company and they seem to be Australian. I've seen their fires installed in huge old lord of the manor type country houses in the UK and they work wonderfully. The model I think that might work for you is the Jetmaster Universal Freestanding.

Checking the brochure it seems that there are two products that may be of interest and that the Universal is one model and the Freedstanding is another. They are both in various widths and there may be one to fit? Although I think it might need a good bit of rejigging of the fireplace to get one to look right. I know from experience the big ones fully loaded can throw out enough heat to fully justify that fireguard of yours.

Had to follow that up as it was bugging me who made those fires I could only remember they were something-master.