Loans everywhere!

LirW

Okay, so I just had a thought.
I was always quite fascinated how normal it is in Ireland that mortgages and finance plans are heavily advertised.
You see in on TV and on busses, on billboards and on the internet.

What stands out to me lately though is the aggressive advertisement of loans for weddings, you'd always have that as for a "small loan" when you see the young couple snuggling up to each other in a picturesque and dramatic landscape when suddenly a hefty ring is in the picture for a second.
Is it now the expected norm that couples are supposed to put themselves into debt for a wedding?

Planning a tiny wedding myself it would never even come to my mind to start my married life with a huge pile of debt but I come across it regularly that couples are unhappy with exploding costs and loans connected to it.

Help me to understand!

SeaFields

To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen an advert for a wedding loan

Pinch Flat

People are financial illiterate here. They’ll all be on cribbing to Joe Duffy after the next crash telling him how the banks forced them to take out the loans for the car / holiday apartment / overpriced house or whatever.

Wanderer78

Banks sell debt!

RobbingBandit

Recession is over spend spend spend,recession beginning again cash for gold 2.0

LirW

SeaFields wrote: »

To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen an advert for a wedding loan

It's not advertised as wedding loan but the small "up to 40 grand" loans that advertise with the romantic couple, you get the idea.

Underground

The PCP market has grown tenfold in six years. People take out loans for Christmas shopping and holidays, and as you mentioned weddings.

These are all things I'd personally be inclined to put a bit of money away for instead of being burdened with debt and ultimately ending up more out of pocket than I otherwise would have been. A lot of people just want "things" now and to hell with the financial consequences.

On a side note, I see Ulster Bank are also set to issue mortgage backed securities, now what could possibly go wrong there?

waffleman

AIB's new ads make me want to vomit.

Kids kissing and hugging their parents because they took a loan to buy a treehouse.

eeguy

Most people are idiots when it comes to money. It seems to be common that people are paying car loans their whole lives, or buying ridiculous mortgages "just to get on the ladder"

The whole idea of saving for something seems to have disappeared.
Don't get into debt unless you really need to get into debt and you have a solid plan of getting out.

Nermal

By no means unique to Ireland. UK freesat ad breaks are composed entirely of payday loans, ambulance chasers & debt consolidation firms. I can't stop humming the 'have I got PPI' tune.

colm_mcm

Underground wrote: »

The PCP market has grown tenfold in six years. ?

It pretty much started from zero to be fair. I’d say tenfold is conservative, 100 times that at least.

meeeeh

I can understand car, house financing, I can even understand why people use bridging high interest loans. They are not a good idea but I can understand why people would do it.

However getting in debt unnecessarily just at the beginning of what will be for a lot of people most expensive part of their lives (house, kids) is ridiculous. Even if gifts cover the loan that money could be put to so much better use. I know weddings are expensive but I think that spend is often completely over the top and pointless.

LirW

eeguy wrote: »

Most people are idiots when it comes to money. It seems to be common that people are paying car loans their whole lives, or buying ridiculous mortgages "just to get on the ladder"

The whole idea of saving for something seems to have disappeared.
Don't get into debt unless you really need to get into debt and you have a solid plan of getting out.

Housing is a quite unavoidable debt if you want to own or like here in Ireland the rental market is so dysfunctional. There's also the very conservative picture still that renting is for the young and students and many still don't see it as a long-term option (if the rental market would allow it).

We're spending approx. 3,5k on our day, that's what we can afford, want afford and are comfortable with. I couldn't justify a big loan for it. It's still a huge amount of money!
We recently did our house up, it badly needed essential work and it was scary how easily we had access to a lot of money.

Bitches Be Trypsin

It's too easy to get a loan these days. Thankfully I've never been in debt and I'm finishing college next month with pretty much nothing, which is more than most of the class, many of whom are 20K or more in debt. Educational loans I agree with. Loans to go to festivals and holidays, debatable!

LirW

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

It's too easy to get a loan these days. Thankfully I've never been in debt and I'm finishing college next month with pretty much nothing, which is more than most of the class, many of whom are 20K or more in debt. Educational loans I agree with. Loans to go to festivals and holidays, debatable!

My opinion on educational loans may differ from yours but it's funny that you see treehouse loans or boiler broken - loans everywhere but never anything for education and the connected cost to it (accommodation, books, fees).

CrankyHaus

LirW wrote: »

Housing is a quite unavoidable debt if you want to own or like here in Ireland the rental market is so dysfunctional. There's also the very conservative picture still that renting is for the young and students and many still don't see it as a long-term option (if the rental market would allow it).

We're spending approx. 3,5k on our day, that's what we can afford, want afford and are comfortable with. I couldn't justify a big loan for it. It's still a huge amount of money!
We recently did our house up, it badly needed essential work and it was scary how easily we had access to a lot of money.

Fair play for not getting suckered in. I couldn't agree more that frontloading a hefty amount of debt onto the beginning of a marriage is a great way to decrease the odds of it lasting.

Sadly marketing has normalised this. The same goes for people spending more than they can afford on new cars, whether through PCP or more traditional financing.

State policy hasn't helped, for example by displaying the car's year of sale on the licence plate to shame people into buying new when they have a perfectly good older car. We even switched to triple digit plates after car dealers had a few bad years.

Wanderer78

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote:

It's too easy to get a loan these days. Thankfully I've never been in debt and I'm finishing college next month with pretty much nothing, which is more than most of the class, many of whom are 20K or more in debt. Educational loans I agree with. Loans to go to festivals and holidays, debatable!

Currently American student debt is at about 1.4 trillion, it's working out well for them!

For Forks Sake

eeguy wrote: »

Most people are idiots when it comes to money. It seems to be common that people are paying car loans their whole lives, or buying ridiculous mortgages "just to get on the ladder"
.

How many people do you reckon have the price (300k) of a house sitting in their back pocket? Ergo mortgages.

Bitches Be Trypsin

LirW wrote: »

My opinion on educational loans may differ from yours but it's funny that you see treehouse loans or boiler broken - loans everywhere but never anything for education and the connected cost to it (accommodation, books, fees).

I agree. I'd rather my parents took a loan out to support my education, than a loan to build me a treehouse.

listermint

eeguy wrote: »

Most people are idiots when it comes to money. It seems to be common that people are paying car loans their whole lives, or buying ridiculous mortgages "just to get on the ladder"

The whole idea of saving for something seems to have disappeared.
Don't get into debt unless you really need to get into debt and you have a solid plan of getting out.

Aye it totally gets my goat that most working families don't have 300k plus saved away to buy a house.

Totes idiots man can't believe it like. Soz

Wanderer78

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote:

I agree. I'd rather my parents took a loan out to support my education, than a loan to build me a treehouse.

Fcuk college, I want a tree house

dxhound2005

Despite the sweeping statements here that most people are idiots when it comes to money, and the rental market is broken, the actual evidence shows otherwise. The 2016 Census shows a significant increase in both the numbers able to rent, and the percentage of owner occupiers who are mortgage free.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/tr/

messy tessy

waffleman wrote: »

AIB's new ads make me want to vomit.

Kids kissing and hugging their parents because they took a loan to buy a treehouse.

So irritating.

And that 'how do you like the new car Evan?' ad makes me want to switch banks! :P

LirW

The car loan thing grinds my gears, I drive an 06 car, my insurance is due next month and since the car is 12 years old now it'll be a kick up the ar5e.
I went into a dealership a while ago and got a few finance plans just for the laughs, I tossed them at the end of the day.

Why is there even an NCT when insurance companies don't deem vehicles roadworthy when they're older than 14 years anyway?

Coffee Fulled Runner

When my wife and I went to the bank to get a small mortgage to buy our house last year they did their best to convince us to take out a bigger one which was 400% bigger then what we wanted and build instead of buying. I could imagine this happening in 2007 but not 2017

beechwood55

CrankyHaus wrote: »

We even switched to triple digit plates after car dealers had a few bad years.

That was in 2013. And that was because people were superstitious about having a car with 13 as part of the registration. So 131 and 132 came about....

Franz Von Peppercorn

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Despite the sweeping statements here that most people are idiots when it comes to money, and the rental market is broken, the actual evidence shows otherwise. The 2016 Census shows a significant increase in both the numbers able to rent, and the percentage of owner occupiers who are mortgage free.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/tr/

That shows more renters because they couldn’t get loans.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

When my wife and I went to the bank to get a small mortgage to buy our house last year they did their best to convince us to take out a bigger one which was 400% bigger then what we wanted and build instead of buying. I could imagine this happening in 2007 but not 2017

Interesting. Two years before that and I had to jump through hoops to get a 70% LTV

Wanderer78

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote:

When my wife and I went to the bank to get a small mortgage to buy our house last year they did their best to convince us to take out a bigger one which was 400% bigger then what we wanted and build instead of buying. I could imagine this happening in 2007 but not 2017

Again, banks sell debt, it's what they do, hence why we should own them

dxhound2005

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That shows more renters because they couldn’t get loans.

Or they choose to rent. Either way they can afford to rent.

Lia_lia

I never see these ads but that's probably because I don't have tv channels and use adblock on the internet..

However I completely agree with you on how mental it is to get big loans for weddings etc. Someone I work with is still paying back money on a 30k wedding loan (!!) they took out about 7 years ago.

I personally have a bit of a fear of loans and try to avoid them as much as I can. I got a CU loan out when I bought my car but it only lasted a few months as I had savings anyway that I used to pay off the loan. Just thought it would be better to spread out the payments with a loan but I hated having money coming out of the bank every month so just paid it off.

I don't understand people who get cars on PCP. My 13 year old car does me fine! Hopefully the only other loan I'll have is my mortgage, whenever I get one that is.

I consider myself lucky that I have a good enough salary so that I can save money and avoid loans. But then again many of my colleagues have loans for silly things like big weddings and PCP and would earn similar money to myself so I dunno. Guess it depends on what you want to spend your money on and how good you manage your money...

The UK is crazy for financing. Must worse than here. From what I hear anyway and have experience of it through work..

CrankyHaus

beechwood55 wrote: »

That was in 2013. And that was because people were superstitious about having a car with 13 as part of the registration. So 131 and 132 came about....

The only person to state that it was to avoid superstitious associations with the number 13 was Michael Healy Rae and he got jeered and laughed out of it in the Dail for suggesting it.

The reason for the change was SIMI raising concerns about disproportionate sales figures in the January of each year and a desire to spread sales out around the year.

meeeeh

beechwood55 wrote: »

That was in 2013. And that was because people were superstitious about having a car with 13 as part of the registration. So 131 and 132 came about....

That was used as an excuse, it was always an opportunity to spread the sales a bit more evenly through the year. I don't think adding a digit is a problem, the year of first sale should not be on licence plate at all. Whoever is interested into buying a car can get info from tax book but for everyone else it is completely irrelevant. NCT every year would improve safety, the year of first sale tells nothing about the state of the car.

beechwood55

beechwood55 wrote: »

That was in 2013. And that was because people were superstitious about having a car with 13 as part of the registration. So 131 and 132 came about....

And if you believe that... :P


It was to encourage mid-year sales, as car dealers were mostly sitting around twiddling their thumbs after february and a 6 monthly system ages a car twice as fast.

LirW

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Or they choose to rent. Either way they can afford to rent.

Regarding mortgage free, there are a lot of mature couples coming out of their mortgages now, also people who left in the downturn started to return and plenty of them brought a healthy pile of cash back home and bought houses outright.
It's not particularly representative for the average Joe wanting a house in Dublin, Cork or Galway because that's where they were born, reared and work now.

These statistics show trends but aren't saying much about the reality of renting and buying when earning the average industrial wage.

Franz Von Peppercorn

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Or they choose to rent. Either way they can afford to rent.

People who rent can afford to rent? Hold the presses. Let me write that down. One for the ages. Take a picture folks we are seeing history being made.

Not even sure what it’s got to do with loans though.

eeguy

meeeeh wrote: »

That was used as an excuse, it was always an opportunity to spread the sales a bit more evenly through the year. I don't think adding a digit is a problem, the year of first sale should not be on licence plate at all. Whoever is interested into buying a car can get info from tax book but for everyone else it is completely irrelevant. NCT every year would improve safety, the year of first sale tells nothing about the state of the car.

It's a silly system to encourage people to buy new cars just to "keep the years up".
The county letters always confused me too. Why is it important to know that a car was registered in Meath or Carlow?

Should be like the french system. Start at AA-001-AA and work up from there.

eeguy

listermint wrote: »

Aye it totally gets my goat that most working families don't have 300k plus saved away to buy a house.

Totes idiots man can't believe it like. Soz

There's a difference between a mortgage and a ridiculous mortgage, although some people are blind to it.
Who was that journalist who spent something like 350k on an apartment?

In terms of advertising, the Credit Union certainly go for weddings and cars in their ads:


Weddings
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSnIxWbXkAANaGS.jpg

Cars
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UJexn7OExiQ/maxresdefault.jpg

Zebra3

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

When my wife and I went to the bank to get a small mortgage to buy our house last year they did their best to convince us to take out a bigger one which was 400% bigger then what we wanted and build instead of buying. I could imagine this happening in 2007 but not 2017

Why can’t you imagine it happening in 2017? Or 2018?

The job of bank employees is to help generate profits for the bank shareholders.

Do you think bank employees get classes during their working day on what’s best for society????

Summer In the City

People can spend their money as they wish but for me taking a loan has to be for a necessity. I drive cars that I can afford to pay cash for, my wedding cost less than 3k, I have no debt whatsoever and I never have.

I will take a mortgage when the time is right but any other loan would have to be for a serious emergency.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

listermint

eeguy wrote: »

There's a difference between a mortgage and a ridiculous mortgage, although some people are blind to it.
Who was that journalist who spent something like 350k on an apartment?

That's not what you said.

But look sure your entitled to move the goal posts if ya like .

eeguy

eeguy wrote: »

It's a silly system to encourage people to buy new cars just to "keep the years up".
The county letters always confused me too. Why is it important to know that a car was registered in Meath or Carlow?

Should be like the french system. Start at AA-001-AA and work up from there.

In fairness to our system, I reckon if someone drove into you, and then made a run for it, you'd much more easily remember an Irish reg before any other country.

The year and county almost get remembered by second nature, meaning you only have to really recall the last few digits.

Wanderer78

Zebra3 wrote:

Do you think bank employees get classes during their working day on what’s best for society????

Ethical banking, now there's an idea! I wonder how that's possible?

LirW

I don't understand people who get cars on PCP. My 13 year old car does me fine! Hopefully the only other loan I'll have is my mortgage, whenever I get one that is.

The problem is it is all a big spiel.
If you are financially tight and your old car breaks and you have to get another banger you might not be able to insure it. Insurances press heavily to get people to write their old cars off.
If you have little savings, the PCP looks like the perfect solution to your problem and hey, who doesn't like a shiny new car?!
Of course it would be easier to get a few grand off CU to get yourself a cheaper second hand car but believe me, the sales tactics are beyond aggressive and you get battered with PCP products from all sides.

Wanderer78

jacksie66 wrote:

People back in work, more money going into the banks, banks can loan out more of people's money, they make loads of money on interest and therefore want people to get into debt. The big worldwide scam that had been going on for thousands of years..

The myth of banking, banks don't loan out deposits!

eeguy

listermint wrote: »

That's not what you said.

But look sure your entitled to move the goal posts if ya like .

At midnight on a Sunday, I'm not even going to bother.

dxhound2005

LirW wrote: »

Regarding mortgage free, there are a lot of mature couples coming out of their mortgages now, also people who left in the downturn started to return and plenty of them brought a healthy pile of cash back home and bought houses outright.
It's not particularly representative for the average Joe wanting a house in Dublin, Cork or Galway because that's where they were born, reared and work now.

These statistics show trends but aren't saying much about the reality of renting and buying when earning the average industrial wage.

612,000 must be in some way representative. And why do you think they don't live in Dublin, Cork or Galway? People generally don't become mortgage free until later in life. So there have always been mature people arriving at that point.

I don't know how people these days would cope if they had to pay mortgage interest rates of 18%, which is something I did. The majority of the period of my mortgage was interest rates in double figures.

elperello

LirW wrote: »

The problem is it is all a big spiel.
If you are financially tight and your old car breaks and you have to get another banger you might not be able to insure it. Insurances press heavily to get people to write their old cars off.
If you have little savings, the PCP looks like the perfect solution to your problem and hey, who doesn't like a shiny new car?!
Of course it would be easier to get a few grand off CU to get yourself a cheaper second hand car but believe me, the sales tactics are beyond aggressive and you get battered with PCP products from all sides.

Skoda dealers are currently offering 0% finance through VW Bank on second hand cars.

Heres Johnny

I love my cars, big premium German saloons which cost a fortune. Luckily enough I loved them years ago too so I buy what I loved back then now. I am mad about the new bmw 530d but it's 65-70k so not doing that. I'll buy one for about 10k cash in the future and I'll be very happy with it.

I worked as financial advisor, setting up pensions and education savings plans for people but the amount of people that said they couldn't afford them despite saying they knew they really should do it was staggering. Buried under a burden of debt in a lot of cases. Debt for holidays and just general overspending. Arranged to meet them the following year when debt was gone only to find a new loan sapping a few hundred every month.
They say never again but always go back.

Only area in financial services I never worked in was lending never really thought it was in people's interest. It's a vicious circle.

Mortgages excepted.....i understand the need for them. But I've seen people with a healthy deposit and capability to pay over 20 to 25 years go for 100% mortgages over 35 years. Which is just about daftest thing I could think.of doing.