Dublin - BusConnects

marno21

Two weeks after a similar publication for Metrolink, the NTA have published a tender for design of 16 Core Bus Corridors for the BusConnect project:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=127159&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

LXFlyer

The infrastructural element of this project is due to go to public consultation this month, while the redesigned bus route network is due to go to consultation in June.

cgcsb

It's a pitty this and the plaza wasn't done and in place during the 5 year construction of BXD. There will now have to be temporary solutions to accommodate CG plaza until bus connects goes ahead.

bk

Brilliant I've always felt that proper infrastructure change along bus routes can have a fantastic improvements on bus journey times and reliability.

I've experienced it with the road widening works at the Cat & Cage in Drumcondra. A very minor scheme in the greater scheme of public transport projects has removed a major bottleneck and easily taken 15 minutes off the bus journeys times into town at peak hours for the many bus routes along their corridor.

And that was just 100 meters or so worth of works. Imagine what works like this all over the city could bring us!

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

It's a pitty this and the plaza wasn't done and in place during the 5 year construction of BXD. There will now have to be temporary solutions to accommodate CG plaza until bus connects goes ahead.

This is the really damning element of this whole fiasco.

I sadly predicted well over a year ago that exactly this scenario was likely to happen and we would be left with an unholy mess.

That’s what we are stuck with now.

As for BusConnects, well I’m waiting for the political realities to develop once the proposals are announced (mass CPO activity along QBCs (much more than the Metro) and the implications of much more changing) in what could be the run up to a general election - sadly I remain to be convinced that this will happen as the NTA may propose.

cgcsb

I can see the plan proposing a lot of CPO given the size of the budget and the Navan road comes to mind and Harold's cross road, both pretty affluent

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

I can see the plan proposing a lot of CPO given the size of the budget and the Navan road comes to mind and Harold's cross road, both pretty affluent

I don’t think that penny has even remotely dropped with the populace at large yet.

cgcsb

LXFlyer wrote: »

I don’t think that penny has even remotely dropped with the populace at large yet.

We'll see. The temporary solutions imposed to accommodate the CG plaza will add urgency to this project, the general pop will start asking questions. I'd be hopeful of at least a provisional plan laid out by the end of the year.

tom1ie

Have we seen a drawing/ picture of the CBC (core bus corridor) yet?
How do they plan on stopping traffic other than busses using the cbc's?
Will there be a smart phone ticketing system for tag on tag off, which will lower dwell times?
Will this be rolled out with anpr cameras (automatic number plate recognition, I think this is what its called!) to prosecute people using cbc's.
It'll be interesting to see where they plan on getting space for this in the cc.
I don't see any mention of orbital brt routes,- only radial?

LXFlyer

tom1ie wrote: »

Have we seen a drawing/ picture of the CBC (core bus corridor) yet?
How do they plan on stopping traffic other than busses using the cbc's?
Will there be a smart phone ticketing system for tag on tag off, which will lower dwell times?
Will this be rolled out with anpr cameras (automatic number plate recognition, I think this is what its called!) to prosecute people using cbc's.
It'll be interesting to see where they plan on getting space for this in the cc.
I don't see any mention of orbital brt routes,- only radial?

Wait and see - read post #2 above.

There will be orbital corridors along which routes will interact - see BusConnects.ie

As for any detail - NONE yet.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

We'll see. The temporary solutions imposed to accommodate the CG plaza will add urgency to this project, the general pop will start asking questions. I'd be hopeful of at least a provisional plan laid out by the end of the year.

A plan will be published in April (infrastructure) and June (bus network).

When it will be delivered and in what form is anyone’s guess.

I don’t expect to see any material changes in 2018 - but with a likely general election in 2019 there will be a lot of politics in any plan that requires people to lose their gardens en masse and people losing direct connections.

For the record I support improving the corridors, but having seen so many plans watered down over the years I am not holding my breath that local politics won’t derail the plans somewhat.

cgcsb

LXFlyer wrote: »

A plan will be published in April (infrastructure) and June (bus network).

When it will be delivered and in what form is anyone’s guess.

I don’t expect to see any material changes in 2018 - but with a likely general election in 2019 there will be a lot of politics in any plan that requires people to lose their gardens en masse and people losing direct connections.

For the record I support improving the corridors, but having seen so many plans watered down over the years I am not holding my breath that local politics won’t derail the plans somewhat.

I thought the tender to design the infrastructure is only out this month?

Yes I don't see bus connects really delivering much of anything in terms of infrastructure beyond some city centre priority measures and integrated ticketing. Perhaps some camera enforcement but again politics might stop the notion of fining people for using their God given right to drive/park in whatever bus lane they like

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

I thought the tender to design the infrastructure is only out this month?

Yes I don't see bus connects really delivering much of anything in terms of infrastructure beyond some city centre priority measures and integrated ticketing. Perhaps some camera enforcement but again politics might stop the notion of fining people for using their God given right to drive/park in whatever bus lane they like

I am pretty sure that Anne Graham has stated that the infrastructure side of the Bus Connects plan will go to public consultation this month, while the bus network would go to consultation in June.

roadmaster

Another step towards Busconnects

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=127633&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

bk

roadmaster wrote: »

Another step towards Busconnects

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=127633&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

As part of its Bus Connects project, the National Transport Authority (NTA) plans to introduce standard branded bus stops throughout Ireland. There are approximately 12,000 bus stops throughout the State. The new bus stops will serve all operators, both public and private, and will replace the multiple stops at different locations that are a feature of the existing system. The new bus stop poles will have integrated information carousels incorporating stop specific printed route maps and timetables. The bus stop pole flag and carousel, and hence pole height, will vary depending on the operators using the stop. Real Time Passenger Information (RTPI) poles and display units will be installed at some stops. The NTA is seeking to enter into five multi-party framework agreements for the design and installation of bus stop poles, including all associated works; and five contracts for bus stop pole maintenance.

Very welcome stuff, it will be great to see all the bus stops on Westmorland Street replaced by just one or two.

cgcsb

While integrated bus stops are to be welcomed, it's a minor consideration. I'd much rather they prioritized bus priority measures.

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

While integrated bus stops are to be welcomed, it's a minor consideration. I'd much rather they prioritized bus priority measures.

They've got two billion to spend on this, so I'd say integrated bus stops are going to be a very very minor part of the whole scheme.

bk

cgcsb wrote: »

While integrated bus stops are to be welcomed, it's a minor consideration. I'd much rather they prioritized bus priority measures.

No reason the two can't happen in parallel, along with other initiatives.

They have already rolled out lovely new generic NTA bus stops and shelters in Cork. I assume they will just be bringing the same to Dublin and the other cities.

Lots of nice pics here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/translatorps/galleries/72157687262736931/?rb=1

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

While integrated bus stops are to be welcomed, it's a minor consideration. I'd much rather they prioritized bus priority measures.

It’s one part of the project.

I don’t see any issue with it while addressing all of the other areas as well.

Pixel Eater

bk wrote: »

No reason the two can't happen in parallel, along with other initiatives.

They have already rolled out lovely new generic NTA bus stops and shelters in Cork. I assume they will just be bringing the same to Dublin and the other cities.

Lots of nice pics here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/translatorps/galleries/72157687262736931/?rb=1

While I agree it's better to have fewer signage and integrate the information, from a design point of view those Cork signs look very generic. I had a look at the proposal for the new bus branding for Dublin (during the initial Bus Connect consultation) and that was very lacklustre too.

And on the second pic: why is the Bus Eireann one still there? Sort of defeats the purpose.

bk

Pixel Eater wrote: »

While I agree it's better to have fewer signage and integrate the information, from a design point of view those Cork signs look very generic. I had a look at the proposal for the new bus branding for Dublin (during the initial Bus Connect consultation) and that was very lacklustre too.

And on the second pic: why is the Bus Eireann one still there? Sort of defeats the purpose.

It is generic, but I really like the design, clean, modern and informative. Vastly superior to the old sign it was replacing IMO.

You have to remember, some of these signs will have multiple operators on them. So the sign can't have the design of any particular operator on it.

I think it was somebody else's job to remove the old pole, versus put up the new one. Great photo catch though, it shows how much better the new ones look. The old bus stops down in Cork were in a really bad state and desperately needed replacing.

In fairness to DB, they maintain their stops and shelters much better.

BTW here is the new bus stop shelters down in Cork. They are very nice, I particular like how the RTPI screen is integrated into the stop. Much better then some dumb ass stops in Dublin where you can't see the RTPI screen from under the shelter!!



Note usually the back part is all glass.

Rasputin87

bk wrote: »

BTW here is the new bus stop shelters down in Cork. They are very nice, I particular like how the RTPI screen is integrated into the stop. Much better then some dumb ass stops in Dublin where you can't see the RTPI screen from under the shelter!!

Note usually the back part is all glass.

Why is the design/branding (for lack of better words) different on this picture versus the earlier pictures posted? Red on this, light blue on the earlier ones.

bk

Rasputin87 wrote: »

Why is the design/branding (for lack of better words) different on this picture versus the earlier pictures posted? Red on this, light blue on the earlier ones.

I think the bus shelters went up quiet a bit before the new stop poles and signs. The red BE sign is on a pole the same as the new ones. I assume it can easily be popped off and the new generic stop sign popped on. Actually it might already have been done since that picture was taken, I'll check next time I'm down in Cork.

Pixel Eater

bk wrote: »

It is generic, but I really like the design, clean, modern and informative. Vastly superior to the old sign it was replacing IMO.

You have to remember, some of these signs will have multiple operators on them. So the sign can't have the design of any particular operator on it.

I think it was somebody else's job to remove the old pole, versus put up the new one. Great photo catch though, it shows how much better the new ones look. The old bus stops down in Cork were in a really bad state and desperately needed replacing.

In fairness to DB, they maintain their stops and shelters much better.

BTW here is the new bus stop shelters down in Cork. They are very nice, I particular like how the RTPI screen is integrated into the stop. Much better then some dumb ass stops in Dublin where you can't see the RTPI screen from under the shelter!!

Note usually the back part is all glass.

I disagree with you: The Bus Eireann logo is actually quite good and distinctive with the Irish red setter icon and nice typography.

I hear ya that they couldn't keep using that as other operators will have their info on it as well but the new one just looks like clip art to me. It would've been better to have devised a nice, original icon to denote a citywide transport node/stop. Dublin Bus have a nice icon and something similar would world well. Also think of the distinctive Transport for London roundel.

bk

Pixel Eater wrote: »

I disagree with you: The Bus Eireann logo is actually quite good and distinctive with the Irish red setter icon and nice typography.

I hear ya that they couldn't keep using that as other operators will have their info on it as well but the new one just looks like clip art to me. It would've been better to have devised a nice, original icon to denote a citywide transport node/stop. Dublin Bus have a nice icon and something similar would world well. Also think of the distinctive Transport for London roundel.

The problem with the BE logo is that it means nothing to a foreign tourist. Actually the same with the TfL roundel, though that has been around for so long it is unlikely to go anywhere. Even the word "Bus" may mean nothing to an Asian or someone from another no-latin based language.

Which is why they have the "bus" symbol at the top of the bus sign. To help visitors. This isn't unusual, bus stops all over the world are changing to this design.

And then there is the point that the NTA probably want to de-emphasise the various brands. After all while the route might be operated by BE today, they might lose the route contract and it might be operated by Go-Ahead tomorrow like is happening on the Kildare routes.

The design of the bus poles and shelters is a very neutral one. The only branding is the sign itself and that can easily be popped off and replaced without replacing the entire bus stop and pole.

dublinman1990

The timetable information in that photo can also be replaced with a generic information board of timetables & routes from any operator in the state. It does currently look very untidy with different pieces of paper showing information on the routes etc. With timetable information being improved all over Ireland under BusConnects; it will give it a nice tidying up when it's being implemented on every bus stop across the state.

Zebra3

bk wrote: »

The problem with the BE logo is that it means nothing to a foreign tourist. Actually the same with the TfL roundel, though that has been around for so long it is unlikely to go anywhere. Even the word "Bus" may mean nothing to an Asian or someone from another no-latin based language

I would guess that anyone who has travelled that far to Ireland would recognise the word “bus”.

Wouldn’t be an issue.

bk

Zebra3 wrote: »

I would guess that anyone who has travelled that far to Ireland would recognise the word “bus”.

Wouldn’t be an issue.

You would be very surprised so, what with lots of Chinese visitors, etc. Completely different alphabet can make it difficult for them, just like it would be for us over there. Do you know the Chinese word for "bus"?

Carawaystick

Why care more about visitors and not about the people who use services regularily?

Zebra3

bk wrote: »

You would be very surprised so, what with lots of Chinese visitors, etc. Completely different alphabet can make it difficult for them, just like it would be for us over there. Do you know the Chinese word for "bus"?

No, I don’t. But when I went to China, or anywhere else that’s uses another alphabet, signs are usually bilingual, the local language and usually English, sometimes French.

Asians coming to Ireland, especially tourists, tend to come from wealthier backgrounds and will either be fluent in English or have a reasonable understanding of it.

But the vast majority will at least know the basic essentials or will be with somebody who does.

marno21

I don't think it's wise to base signage of Dublin's bus network around people who don't understand the word "bus".

I don't see any other country following such a policy. Given the mess we are in to begin with I don't see how we can benefit from such a policy.