IRE/UK Teacher Training Primary

lemmno

Asking for a friend!

I’ll keep this as simple as I can. Woman in her 20s, brought up in the UK by Irish parents. Has done a degree in the UK but now lives here in Ireland with her parents who came back to ireland a few years ago.

She wants to become a primary school teacher in Ireland but the Irish language aspect will be an issue for her. She’s never been around the language having been brought up in the UK. She is however willing to learn.

What would you recommend to her? Should she train in Ireland or train in the UK and do her Irish after? She’s asked me for advice as I’m a teacher but I’m Secondary so no idea how to advise her on this.

I guess she wants to qualify as fast as she can, and do the ‘easiest’ Irish test that she can.
She’s great with kids and will put in a huge effort whatever she does but I guess why spend a lot of time on one course if you can do it faster/easier elsewhere?

Thanks in advance!

kandr10

There’s no ‘easy’ test. She’ll need the leaving cert honors irish to get onto a course/get a job in Ireland.
I’d say it’s more a case of working out financially what would be best for her as it’s a pretty time bound exercise to go about learning Irish and building up to leaving cert standard.
For what it’s worth, my other half repeated his Irish leaving cert exam 7 years ago and studied with Independent College Dublin. These or similar could be helpful to start an entry level course and see what progress she makes.

lemmno

kandr10 wrote: »

There’s no ‘easy’ test. She’ll need the leaving cert honors irish to get onto a course/get a job in Ireland.
I’d say it’s more a case of working out financially what would be best for her as it’s a pretty time bound exercise to go about learning Irish and building up to leaving cert standard.
For what it’s worth, my other half repeated his Irish leaving cert exam 7 years ago and studied with Independent College Dublin. These or similar could be helpful to start an entry level course and see what progress she makes.

Would it be a case of just passing higher level Irish at LC level? I’ve done some research and I think she could also do TEG at B2, just wondering which would be easier for her. I’m a native Irish speaker and I teach Irish, albeit to other native Irish speakers, so it all looks ‘easy’ to me but I’m just trying to figure out which way is more user friendly to a complete beginner if that makes sense.
Financially it works out much the same whether in the UK or Ireland, she reckons the UK would be quicker but my worry with the UK is if she would actually be qualified here once she got back. With courses here at least you know what you’re getting but in the UK you can do teaching courses and still not have QTS by the end of it.
Thanks for the tip re ICD, def worth looking into.

kandr10

You’re right, b2 in teg exam is accepted by teaching council in lieu of lc. I stand corrected! Looking at their website, the style of learning required by the exam would, in my opinion, be easier to study towards than the lc. Its very practical uses of the language and the framework provides natural stepping stones that wouldn’t get if you aimed towards lc. It’s more akin to how tefl teaching works if that’s any use to you. Having taught tefl for a number of years, I’d say the quickest you’d expect to progress from a1 to b2 would be at least 3 years. Bearing in mind that it’s more difficult to go from say intermediate to upper intermediate level. I know I’m digressing, but thinking about how your friend would need to use the Irish once in college and in teaching, the practical nature of teg would be very helpful, I think.
If she was to go for a postgrad in Ireland, she’d need to do an oral Irish interview too. Most job interviews I’ve done (which is many!) have involved answering pedagogy questions in Irish. She’d want to be really comfortable with the language so it’s not just a case of fast tracking to pass an exam.
Sorry I don’t know if I’m helping with these digressions, I’m just trying to frame how the Irish would be used during and after teaching course, but just food for thought.
Also just thinking about it, the Conradh na gaeilge courses are very good too and they do prep for teg. The likes of ranganna.com do online courses as a starting point too.

lemmno

kandr10 wrote: »

You’re right, b2 in teg exam is accepted by teaching council in lieu of lc. I stand corrected! Looking at their website, the style of learning required by the exam would, in my opinion, be easier to study towards than the lc. Its very practical uses of the language and the framework provides natural stepping stones that wouldn’t get if you aimed towards lc. It’s more akin to how tefl teaching works if that’s any use to you. Having taught tefl for a number of years, I’d say the quickest you’d expect to progress from a1 to b2 would be at least 3 years. Bearing in mind that it’s more difficult to go from say intermediate to upper intermediate level. I know I’m digressing, but thinking about how your friend would need to use the Irish once in college and in teaching, the practical nature of teg would be very helpful, I think.
If she was to go for a postgrad in Ireland, she’d need to do an oral Irish interview too. Most job interviews I’ve done (which is many!) have involved answering pedagogy questions in Irish. She’d want to be really comfortable with the language so it’s not just a case of fast tracking to pass an exam.
Sorry I don’t know if I’m helping with these digressions, I’m just trying to frame how the Irish would be used during and after teaching course, but just food for thought.
Also just thinking about it, the Conradh na gaeilge courses are very good too and they do prep for teg. The likes of ranganna.com do online courses as a starting point too.

No that’s all very helpful, thank you!
Yeah she’s the type to make a big effort in anything she does and would really be a big asset to the profession if she could get through the exam. I reckon be grand with teaching it as she would put everything into it, make sure she was well equipped for that particular topic, whether it’s caitheamh aimsire, spóirt etc...I guess it all comes down to how quickly she grasps it. Chances are it just won’t ‘stick’, no idea how hard it is for a complete beginner. I know I wouldn’t be able to pick up any other language.

lemmno

I think from talking to you it’s sort of coming clear to me that maybe her best bet is to get the teaching qualification in the UK (to avoid Irish interview for courses here), and once qualified work on getting the B2 TEG to register here.

r93kaey5p2izun

If she wants to do the teaching course in Ireland she will need an entry level standard of Irish - either a H4 in LC HL Irish or a B2 in TEG. She will then be assessed on her teaching of and use of the language in the classroom during training.

If she does the teaching course in the UK it's not just a case of then doing the LC or TEG - she would still need to be assessed and certified on her teaching of and use of Irish in the classroom. So she would then need to do the SCG or OCG within three years of registration in a Ireland. Her ability to get a job in Ireland without the Irish qualification would be much reduced and restricted mostly to subbing or to working in a special school setting.

kandr10

lemmno wrote: »

I think from talking to you it’s sort of coming clear to me that maybe her best bet is to get the teaching qualification in the UK (to avoid Irish interview for courses here), and once qualified work on getting the B2 TEG to register here.

This is true and while there is an advantage to bypassing Irish interview for a course here, this route has the disadvantage of lack of exposure to the language and ultimately ending up with a qualification that can’t be used (unless she relocated to the uk to teach). Not to mention as another poster mentioned having to complete the Irish component of teaching course once back in Ireland anyway.
I really think there’s no easy way to learn a language quickly. You just have to get stuck in with multiple courses, which brings with it its own expenses. I reckon she’d be lucky to be at the right level in 3-4 years.

kandr10

Graham Few Gynecologist wrote: »

If she wants to do the teaching course in Ireland she will need an entry level standard of Irish - either a H4 in LC HL Irish or a B2 in TEG. She will then be assessed on her teaching of and use of the language in the classroom during training.

If she does the teaching course in the UK it's not just a case of then doing the LC or TEG - she would still need to be assessed and certified on her teaching of and use of Irish in the classroom. So she would then need to do the SCG or OCG within three years of registration in a Ireland. Her ability to get a job in Ireland without the Irish qualification would be much reduced and restricted mostly to subbing or to working in a special school setting.

Would you be able to sub if registration to teaching council is dependent on the teg b2? She’d need to have at least that (or lc) surely and then get provisional registration status pending completion of scg or ocg?

r93kaey5p2izun

Just to clarify that should she do the teacher training in the UK, the LC/TEG would be irrelevant. She would not be required to do these at all - it's SCG or OCG she would have to do. Even Irish candidates who have the required LC grade have to do the SCG or OCG if they train abroad.

Also note there could be other shortfalls to address to gain full registration here, as the UK qualification is usually just 60 ECTS credits where the Irish one is 120. Though I believe there are some courses in the UK that offer the opportunity to continue on to Masters level after qualifying and that this can be done while working. Whether these satisfy the TC's content requirements though I don't know. Teachers wishing to work in Catholic schools here also need to do a Catholic RE cert - not usually required for subbing but is needed for permanent jobs. Some diocese are lax in checking for it but I know people who got away without it for years then had to do it once permanent contract offered.

r93kaey5p2izun

kandr10 wrote: »

Would you be able to sub if registration to teaching council is dependent on the teg b2? She’d need to have at least that (or lc) surely and then get provisional registration status pending completion of scg or ocg?

No. TEG B2 is not needed for registering with the TC - just for entry to a teacher training course as an alternative to the LC. Restricted registration under the EU directive would happen without the Irish qualification and then the three years to do the SCG or OCG. So yes they could sub with no Irish. They could sub anyway by registering under FE with no teacher training at all once they have a degree.

One thing to be wary of is with Brexit - the EU directive on recognising qualifications won't apply. Though I'm sure a mutual agreement will be put in place between here and UK.

lemmno

SCG and OCG are two new things to me anyway! Will have to get her to research that then! Would it be similar to TGMI for Secondary?