Summons issue - or not

charleville

Hi,

I was stopped for a motoring offence (which I genuinely did not commit) the end of last June 2017, I received the notice to pay in September which I did not pay as I was willing to contest it.

However I just received a call from the garda station today (04/04/2018) saying they had a summons for me to appear in court later this month.

The summons date says 20th November 2017 at the bottom but I’ve just got a call about it this evening which I immediately went down to collect.

Should this have been served sooner ? Is everything in order here ?

The guard did not sign or fill out the summons to say it was served he just gave it to me.

TIA

Yawns

They have up to 6 months from date of offence to apply for a summons and can take a while to serve it.

Brian Lighthouse

Let me guess you were traveling and not driving.
Sorry couldn't resist that one.

Well, you have the summons now and a date. Turn up and see how it goes.

Yawns

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_trial/summons.html

charleville

Yawns wrote: »

They have up to 6 months from date of offence to apply for a summons and can take a while to serve it.

So they can serve it any time then... I wasn’t sure if they had 6 months to serve it, does it matter that the guard did not fill in his details when serving it ?

charleville

Brian Lighthouse wrote: »

Let me guess you were traveling and not driving.
Sorry couldn't resist that one.

Well, you have the summons now and a date. Turn up and see how it goes.

No.. he alleged i was on the phone while driving, and I wasn’t.

Looks like I’ll have to turn up so

Homer

Do you honestly think the judge will take your word for it over a guards? Knock yourself out

Yawns

charleville wrote: »

So they can serve it any time then... I wasn’t sure if they had 6 months to serve it, does it matter that the guard did not fill in his details when serving it ?

They have the 6 months to apply for it and afaik up to a year to serve it but not 100% on the time to serve, but it seems to be the rule of thumb.

Not sure if it matters if the guard hasn't signed it. I assume there's a signature of some sort from a judge or court clerk most likely.

punisher5112

Have you requested for phone to be checked for incoming or outgoing calls??

Solicitor will be best bet for this one.

Homer

punisher5112 wrote: »

Have you requested for phone to be checked for incoming or outgoing calls??

Solicitor will be best bet for this one.

The offence can be as simple as holding the phone so that’s not necessarily important. The OP could claim they weren’t on the phone or texting etc but that wouldn’t matter. The guard is claiming they saw the OP holding the phone. OP is claiming they weren’t. Now it’s for the judge to decide who’s telling the truth!

ED E

The offence is supporting the phone while in control, one does not have to be moving even.

punisher5112

Homer wrote: »

The offence can be as simple as holding the phone so that’s not necessarily important. The OP could claim they weren’t on the phone or texting etc but that wouldn’t matter. The guard is claiming they saw the OP holding the phone. OP is claiming they weren’t. Now it’s for the judge to decide who’s telling the truth!

I understand that but I took it as they were on phone to mean a call and up to their ear.

I leave the phone in my pocket since all that changed.

charleville

Homer wrote: »

The offence can be as simple as holding the phone so that’s not necessarily important. The OP could claim they weren’t on the phone or texting etc but that wouldn’t matter. The guard is claiming they saw the OP holding the phone. OP is claiming they weren’t. Now it’s for the judge to decide who’s telling the truth!

The guard told me and I quote “that I was holding the phone in my right hand up to my left ear”

When in reality I did not touch my phone as it was in the visor above my head.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

charleville

Homer wrote: »

Do you honestly think the judge will take your word for it over a guards? Knock yourself out

So if you were accused of something that you did not do... would you simply just say ok and take whatever punishment was coming to you.

Would you not stick up for yourself and do what’s right ?

Homer

charleville wrote: »

So if you were accused of something that you did not do... would you simply just say ok and take whatever punishment was coming to you.

Would you not stick up for yourself and do what’s right ?

Pick your fights would be my advice. I honestly don’t think you’ll win this one but good luck!

godtabh

charleville wrote: »

So if you were accused of something that you did not do... would you simply just say ok and take whatever punishment was coming to you.

Would you not stick up for yourself and do what’s right ?

well you have to prove otherwise. Can you? If you cant its your word against his. There is only one winner

charleville

Patww79 wrote: »

Yeah but if he says you were holding it up to your ear then a judge is going to agree you were holding it up to your ear.

But why... why would a judge automatically take the guards word over mine, Just because he is a guard ?

I plan to have a copy of my phone records, a picture of my Bluetooth set in my car, and telling the judge the truth.
He would have to question why I would go to such lengths if I was not telling the truth I would imagine, it’s not right that a guard can just swan around accusing people of things that did not happen

nuac

Mod
Solicitor time. See a solicitor who practises in that DC area.
With respect to some posters here, not all DJs accept AGS evidence unreservedly

idnkph

charleville wrote:

The summons date says 20th November 2017 at the bottom but I’ve just got a call about it this evening which I immediately went down to collect.

Why go and collect it? They have to serve you with the summons. Your doing their job for them?!

charleville

nuac wrote: »

Mod
Solicitor time. See a solicitor who practises in that DC area.
With respect to some posters here, not all DJs accept AGS evidence unreservedly

I’m sorry but I don’t understand your post or what you mean ?

Tks

ianob7

DC = district court
DJ = district judge

Hope this helps

P.s hope I'm right :P

hullaballoo

AGS = An Garda Síochána

2012paddy2012

If your holding device in your hand ..your wrong. Summonses are endorsed you get a copy.

Samuel T. Cogley

Mod = Moderator :pac:

BowSideChamp

charleville wrote: »

But why... why would a judge automatically take the guards word over mine, Just because he is a guard ?

I plan to have a copy of my phone records, a picture of my Bluetooth set in my car, and telling the judge the truth.
He would have to question why I would go to such lengths if I was not telling the truth I would imagine, it’s not right that a guard can just swan around accusing people of things that did not happen

Your phone records mean absolutely nothing as the law refers to not holding the phone while driving. Enjoy the extra points.

Samuel T. Cogley

OP ignore the bollocks about not contesting it. If you didn't do it, contest it. There's all sorts of reasons why the case may not go ahead on the day and if it does the very best of luck.

Happyilylost

BowSideChamp wrote:

Your phone records mean absolutely nothing as the law refers to not holding the phone while driving. Enjoy the extra points.

Would you normally hold the phone up to your ear talking to no one? Judges normally take the side that seems most realistic. If the Garda says the person was holding the phone up to their ear but yet no phone call was placed/received I don't see a judge buying that. Garda says they saw a phone in a hand without stating it was up to the ear case could be more difficult to prove innocence.

brian_t

Phone records do not show incoming calls.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

Lmklad

OP to answer your original questions, a summons can be served anytime up to seven clear days before the court date. You are handed a copy, the endorsed original is sent to the courts.

Another poster stated you were doing the guards work by calling and collecting it. The guard can serve the summons anywhere, including at your home or place of work. You did right by collecting it.

NinetyTwoTeam

charleville wrote: »

Homer wrote: »

Do you honestly think the judge will take your word for it over a guards? Knock yourself out

So if you were accused of something that you did not do... would you simply just say ok and take whatever punishment was coming to you.

Would you not stick up for yourself and do what’s right ?

yeah you can but it won't matter a jot, the judge always takes the guards word as gospel.

lifeandtimes

I still dont understand how the law is what it is

In all new cars most dashboards where the stereo used to be are all touch screan and require you to take your eyes off the road which is dangerous in my eyes.

I have a phone holder on my window thats collected by blue tooth to my stereo yet i still take my eyes of the road time to time to look at the sat nav on it.

However Op there is one get out clause for holding a mobile phone while driving

(7) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (3), in relation to holding a mobile phone while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle, or under subsection (6), in relation to the use of a mobile phone or an in-vehicle communication device, to show that he or she was—

(a) using it to call the Garda Síochána, an ambulance, fire or other emergency service on numbers prescribed for such service, or

(b) involved in or acting in response to a genuine emergency.

charleville

testicles wrote: »

Because the member has nothing to lose or gain by lying under oath, whereas you on the other hand....

Yes.. but he has his credibility at stake, I just can’t get over some of the comments saying to just take the points etc etc... I genuinely did not commit this offence, it would be morally wrong of me to accept the points and fine.

It was the fact he was so specific about which hand I was holding the phone and to which ear (it baffles me what he actually saw or why he decided to stop me), is this some kind of tactic so he won’t be wronged should it go to court ?


If the judge takes the guards word over mine on the day then so be it... I will know I done my best, however I will have no more faith in the legal system from that point on if that happens.

evolving_doors

Each case on its own merits I hope.

Let us know how you get on Charleville.

lifeandtimes

charleville wrote: »

Yes.. but he has his credibility at stake, I just can’t get over some of the comments saying to just take the points etc etc... I genuinely did not commit this offence, it would be morally wrong of me to accept the points and fine.

It was the fact he was so specific about which hand I was holding the phone and to which ear (it baffles me what he actually saw or why he decided to stop me), is this some kind of tactic so he won’t be wronged should it go to court ?


If the judge takes the guards word over mine on the day then so be it... I will know I done my best, however I will have no more faith in the legal system from that point on if that happens.

charleville wrote: »

The guard told me and I quote “that I was holding the phone in my right hand up to my left ear”

Does seem like a strange way to hold a phone while driving, are you left eared by any chance?

Brian Lighthouse

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Does seem like a strange way to hold a phone while driving, are you left eared by any chance?

Perhaps:
From what I see while driving.
A right handed person - phone out in right hand, place under left ear and cup between neck and shoulder leaving left hand free to operate gear stick and steering wheel, with the option of using the right hand on the wheel if you need it.

It's what I see the most when people drive around town.

When people are cruising on the major roads, it's left hand on the wheel and the right hand with phone held up to ear.

Worse is coming across some van in a country lane on a tight bend me man out in the middle of the road 'cos he's only using one hand to turn with.

Sorry, going off topic there in response to above.

charleville

So... just to update what happened.

I was in court this week and as I said I would do I told the judge the truth, I spoke about what happened exactly and explained clearly that I certainly did not commit this offence and showed evidence of my Bluetooth etc.

I also said that I was disgusted at the guard for treating me with such disregard and not giving me a chance to explain myself upon being stopped.

So for everyone who told me to take the points/pick my battles/judge would never listen to me over a guard/knock my head off a wall etc etc... well the judge did listen to me and could see that i was telling the truth.

I might have wasted half my day, but I stuck up for myself and I got no fine and no points and the judge seen it in my favour.

Tigger

charleville wrote: »

So... just to update what happened.

I was in court this week and as I said I would do I told the judge the truth, I spoke about what happened exactly and explained clearly that I certainly did not commit this offence and showed evidence of my Bluetooth etc.

I also said that I was disgusted at the guard for treating me with such disregard and not giving me a chance to explain myself upon being stopped.

So for everyone who told me to take the points/pick my battles/judge would never listen to me over a guard/knock my head off a wall etc etc... well the judge did listen to me and could see that i was telling the truth.

I might have wasted half my day, but I stuck up for myself and I got no fine and no points and the judge seen it in my favour.

Well done.

punisher5112

Great outcome.

Wish the many that actually have Bluetooth in their cars or vans and trucks would use them.

lifeandtimes

punisher5112 wrote: »

Great outcome.

Wish the many that actually have Bluetooth in their cars or vans and trucks would use them.

True

I've a hands free phone holder that connects to my window and my car stereo came with a connection for a speaker so I can connect it to my phone via Bluetooth to listen to music and make calls. No excuses anymore to hold a phone.

Op delighted to hear that, hopefully there's a tide turning where judges are listening and believing the honest joe soaps