Is “extra” fuel a rip off?

Shanowen Shakedown

I was filling my car recently and saw that Topaz have “miles” diesel.

Apparently it offers up to 3% more efficiency but it costs 10% more. (€1.49 as opposed to €1.36).

Why would anyone pay 10% extra for 3% extra efficiency?

Am I missing something?

colm_mcm

The standard miles claims to add 3%, it’s unclear as to whether miles more expensive one) adds 3% to standard fuel, or if it’s the same 3% you get on the standard stuff.

They say the more expensive stuff makes your car more powerful.

Details here. Very vague
https://www.topaz.ie/fuels/milesPlus.aspx

colm_mcm

Ooh, it was discussed here before

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057779348

mikeecho

Shanowen Shakedown wrote: »

I was filling my car recently and saw that Topaz have “miles” diesel.

Apparently it offers up to 3% more efficiency but it costs 10% more. (€1.49 as opposed to €1.36).

Why would anyone pay 10% extra for 3% extra efficiency?

Am I missing something?

It's usually 7c more for the plus fuel.

So 1.369 + .07 = 1.439
That would be 5% extra cost .

Dial Hard

mikeecho wrote:

It's usually 7c more for the plus fuel.

It's 10c per litre more expensive in any Topaz I've passed

mickdw

I'd really doubt that there would be any noticeable gain in power in a diesel with the different fuel. A petrol engine, I can certainly see making some sense but for diesel, unless the mileage gain is a greater percentage than the price gain, I wouldn't touch it.

wexie

Shanowen Shakedown wrote: »

I was filling my car recently and saw that Topaz have “miles” diesel.

Apparently it offers up to 3% more efficiency but it costs 10% more. (€1.49 as opposed to €1.36).

Why would anyone pay 10% extra for 3% extra efficiency?

Am I missing something?

marketing....that's all.

Some people will happily accept any claim made by any company without giving it further scrutiny and lots of companies will happily cash in on this.

That's how we now have certified gluten, caffeine and carb free...water....

http://getblk.com/

punisher5112

They are rolling out their branding now also. Circle K

mikeecho

Dial Hard wrote: »

It's 10c per litre more expensive in any Topaz I've passed

The three stations that I pass regularly that sell plus, Ballincollig & Lower Glanmire rd are an extra 7c
Macroom is an extra 8c

Don't know what stations you're passing, there's only a dozen or so places selling it.

punisher5112

Dalkey has it and ballyboden.

These tend to be around 10c.

mikeecho

punisher5112 wrote: »

They are rolling out their branding now also. Circle K

J14 M8 opened yesterday, and Martello, Dublin was remanded this week as well.
Some place in kildare this coming week... and more after that.

punisher5112

mikeecho wrote: »

J14 M8 opened yesterday, and Martello, Dublin was remanded this week as well.
Some place in kildare this coming week... and more after that.

Rock road at St Vincent's is done.

Dalkey has the new terminals where you put the card chip down... I would say they're sick of trying to show people how to use.

Leonard Hofstadter

As far as I know, miles plus is at least 54 cetane for diesel rather than the more usual 51 cetane, so there is an advantage for diesel (a little bit more power and mpg, plus the engine should run a little smoother). However, I have absolutely no idea why anyone would buy it for a petrol car since it's still standard 95 RON like regular unleaded. If it was the same as Super Unleaded in the UK then I'd definitely pay the extra for miles plus petrol (higher octane means a little bit more power, refinement and mpg plus my car is recommended by the manufacturer to use 98 RON fuel), but since it's not, I think it's throwing money down the drain for petrol cars.

mikeecho

captainspeed wrote: »

As far as I know, miles plus is at least 54 cetane for diesel rather than the more usual 51 cetane, so there is an advantage for diesel (a little bit more power and mpg, plus the engine should run a little smoother). However, I have absolutely no idea why anyone would buy it for a petrol car since it's still standard 95 RON like regular unleaded. If it was the same as Super Unleaded in the UK then I'd definitely pay the extra for miles plus petrol (higher octane means a little bit more power, refinement and mpg plus my car is recommended by the manufacturer to use 98 RON fuel), but since it's not, I think it's throwing money down the drain for petrol cars.

Correct, a min of 3 extra cetane numbers for diesel, and no increase of RON in petrol.

That's why I use the plus diesel and regular petrol.

antodeco

I was thought it was higher RON! Thanks for clearing that up. Will not touch it now (Z3 back on the road from tomorrow so wanted to treat it!)

mikeecho

Here's what Topaz told me a while back.

Hi , I have a response from the fuel team for you- Originally, Cetane Improver is a refinery (production) additive.

This means that this additive is often used at the production level to meet the Diesel EN590 specification of min 51.

We only claim Cetane No. min 51 as we have no control over how much additive has been added by the refinery.

This additive has a sharp and immediate effect but falls of if you keep adding more, at a certain amount the Cetane Number improvement stops and the CN does not get any higher.

That said, we add Cetane improver not to increase the Cetane number, but to give all the other advantages we claim for miles and milesPLUS diesel.

The Cetane improver together with the other specialist additives work together in a balanced combination to provide these premium products with their unique properties.

We would expect that on average, the CN will increase by 3 Cetane numbers for milesPlus, but we cannot guarantee this based on the above explanation.

I hope this answers your query. Many thanks

Bear in mind, that diesel fuel will be a minimum of 51.. it could be 52 or more, and then an extra 3.

Dartz

Normal petrol gets me about 150km to the first quarter tank - with almost metronome-like consistency. This is at cruising speed on the motorway

Anytime I've run milesplus, It goes between 170 and 180 - most recently driving Cork to Dublin along the coast road, with a full car.

I wonder if it doesn't burn faster once ignited or something. That might account for the difference, even if the Octane is the same.

ted1

mikeecho wrote: »

Dial Hard wrote: »

It's 10c per litre more expensive in any Topaz I've passed

The three stations that I pass regularly that sell plus, Ballincollig & Lower Glanmire rd are an extra 7c
Macroom is an extra 8c

Don't know what stations you're passing, there's only a dozen or so places selling it.

Is that for miles 3% or miles plus ( another 3%)?

mikeecho

Dartz wrote: »

Normal petrol gets me about 150km to the first quarter tank - with almost metronome-like consistency. This is at cruising speed on the motorway

Anytime I've run milesplus, It goes between 170 and 180 - most recently driving Cork to Dublin along the coast road, with a full car.

I wonder if it doesn't burn faster once ignited or something. That might account for the difference, even if the Octane is the same.

The plus fuels have friction modifiers.. maybe that's what gives a better result with petrol.

ted1 wrote: »

Is that for miles 3% or
miles plus ( another 3%)?

The milesPlus costs the extra 7 or 8c , over the cost of regular miles at those particular stations.

I only buy it in Ballincollig or Lower Glanmire rd.



I paid £1.449 for BP ultimate diesel on the motorway in the UK during the summer, that's about €1.649.

So, I believe that what I'm paying locally ~€1.329 for plus diesel, ain't too bad.

mikeecho

On another note... i wouldn't be surprised if other operators follow Topaz with plus/extra fuel.

I think milesPlus is a 12mnt trial at the moment, but if it continues, I reckon Maxol will be next with plus/extra.


7c difference..

Del2005

mikeecho wrote: »

On another note... i wouldn't be surprised if other operators follow Topaz with plus/extra fuel.

I think milesPlus is a 12mnt trial at the moment, but if it continues, I reckon Maxol will be next with plus/extra.


7c difference..

I'd rather get higher octane fuel than more expensive 95RON.

Dartz

mikeecho wrote: »

The plus fuels have friction modifiers.. maybe that's what gives a better result with petrol.







The milesPlus costs the extra 7 or 8c , over the cost of regular miles at those particular stations.

I only buy it in Ballincollig or Lower Glanmire rd.



I paid £1.449 for BP ultimate diesel on the motorway in the UK during the summer, that's about €1.649.

So, I believe that what I'm paying locally ~€1.329 for plus diesel, ain't too bad.

I don't think friction modifiers do it.

One thing with the engine in my yoke is, that they will run better on a faster burning fuel because less of it's still burning when it hits the exhaust. It's not that critical with other cars but it helps with carbon and ****.

Also noticed the timing was tending more towards 40 degrees advanced rather than 30 or so which it normally does

shietpilot

Dartz wrote: »

Also noticed the timing was tending more towards 40 degrees advanced rather than 30 or so which it normally does

Advanced timing is caused by the ECU detecting less knock on miles plus and advancing ignition timing to get more power. Higher octane = less knock.

Dartz

Knock sensor on a rotary is basically a 'death' sensor. Hard detonation knock is a dead engine. It does ping a lot - especially on part load. But a lot of 'em do that because preignition's a lot less catastrophic.