Buying a 2012 Leaf (gen1)

AstraMonti

Hello,

I am looking to buy a 2012 gen1 leaf and I have a few questions. Obviously the main concern i would guess it the battery degradation, but this car has about 70k kms and seem to have all of its bars there.

It's only going to be used for commuting and probably we 'll never exceed 60-70k in a day.

When I go to see the car I ll try to have a Leaf Spy with me to check the battery in detail, but what exactly should I be looking for? And should I tell the seller to have the battery fully charged when I go to see it?

Also, does the gen1 have the remote pre-heat feature?

Anything else I should be checking?
Many thanks.

Apart from battery degradation the Gen I Leaf is pretty bulletproof. There have been rare instances where it would not charge due to charge controller failure but this is pretty rare and I certainly wouldn't let that put you off because buying 2nd hand ICE has the potential to cause far more issues.

I would estimate that that car will loose a capacity bar, it's pretty good if it does indeed have all 12 bars after 6 years. But I would think it would go soon, if it goes go you'll have about 85% Capacity left each bar after that losses about 6.25 % capacity.

85% capacity gen I would get you about 85-90 Kms at 100 Kph or possibly lower in very cold wet weather.

If you ever need a battery when it becomes unusable then it will cost 5,500 Euro's installed at todays price by the time you need one it could cost 2,000 or lower, end of life is when it's no longer suitable for your needs but the industry standard is when the battery reaches 70% capacity.

But here is the key difference between EV and ICE, a new battery means the car is practically brand new again, drivetrain wise as the electric motor should last well over 500,000 Kms and probably close to double but that remains to be seen , the electrics are pretty reliable and usually run well below tolerance, the Prius being a good example of ultra reliability of the electrics.

The Prius will still be going 20+ years later, probably on their 2nd battery by then.

As long as the rest of the car is in pretty good shape it's a car that should last 20+ years.

If budget can stretch try find a newer gen Leaf from 2014 as it has a better battery.

Anyway , yes it has the remote heating and AC , the previous owner will have to de-register on carwings, I'm not 100% sure if a new owner can set it up otherwise.

And no, the car does not have to be charged to 100% when you drive it, you won;t be driving it far and it doesn't matter to the leafspy stats.

When you drive it you'll want it :-)

Think carefully if this is going to be your only car because while it may suit commute it's a right pain int he ass with low range , I had a Leaf 24 Kwh for 3 years and there's many trips we took the diesel but for most of my driving the Leaf was perfect.

If you go away on longer trips a couple of times a year than fast charging isn't so bad but at some point you're going to have to wait possibly up to an hour before you get to charge and then it will take you 30-40 mins to charge.

Please post the leaf spy stats when you get it but I bet the battery will be close to 85% capacity and you will soon loose 1st capacity bar but it will be interesting to know as I said it's pretty good going to have all bars.

KCross

AstraMonti wrote: »

Hello,

I am looking to buy a 2012 gen1 leaf and I have a few questions. Obviously the main concern i would guess it the battery degradation, but this car has about 70k kms and seem to have all of its bars there.

It's only going to be used for commuting and probably we 'll never exceed 60-70k in a day.

When I go to see the car I ll try to have a Leaf Spy with me to check the battery in detail, but what exactly should I be looking for? And should I tell the seller to have the battery fully charged when I go to see it?

Also, does the gen1 have the remote pre-heat feature?

Anything else I should be checking?
Many thanks.

What kind of driving is your 70km? Is it all local roads (i.e. <100km/h)?
It should be OK in that case but long term that Gen 1 car will likely not cover that distance for you all year round. The degradation is worse in the Gen 1 cars.

It would be wiser to come up to 132 Leafs (aka Gen 1.5) where the battery is more robust, but if the budget doesnt stretch then fair enough.


LeafSpy only shows you weak cells when the car is below 10% ish. So, thats what you need the car at if you want to see its low point.

Unfortunately you then also need the car to charge to 100% to see its full capacity so ideally you should get LeafSpy connected again the following day to see it fully charged. Is it a dealer or private sale. If its a dealer try to get the car for 24hrs.

Obviously take it for a rapid charge to ensure all the bits 'n pieces of that work.

Check the electronic parking brake.... known to give trouble and costs a lot to fix. Flick it on and off a good few times. Note, its a foot brake in the Gen 1.5 and more reliable and another reason to go to a 132 car.

Check the heater... also known to give trouble in Gen 1 cars. Obviously.... if it blows heat its working!
The Gen 1.5 has a heat pump which is more efficient and doesnt give trouble so another reason to go to 132..... there is a pattern here!

The Gen 1 is a good car but know its limitations and you need to be getting it at a keen price.

There is a possibility that the car has a replacement battery fitted if it hasn't dropped a bar yet. Alternatively the battery health counters may have been reset and the 12 bars hence lie to you.

I would definitely check the car using leafspy. The Hx value on the main screen should be within a couple of precent the SOH and both should 90-100 for a battery in excellent health. Below 85 means that at least one bar will disappear soon and a big difference between the two values may indicate that the health starts are reset and you'll lose some number of bars soon.

In the worst case the Hx of 65ish means that the battery would in reality be a 8 bar car instead of 12 displayed and the bars would start to drop about one per month until then real value is displayed.

The heater failures were pretty rare to be honest.

I wouldn't worry about 100% charge etc or low charge, all batteries will have weaker cells which is why it needs to be driven at a gentle pace when the battery % reaches 30% and even gentler the less charge % because it's then the weaker cells make themselves known at low charge %.

But leafspy is your friend for sure.

But 2014 is a better bet if you can stretch that far and has the more efficient heater in SV and SVE trim.

You might find the odd older gen in a 132 reg too, spotted by the bright interior.

goz83

Most 2012s now will be down to 10 bars. A full bar 2012 is quite a find...although the percentage will likely be closer to 11 bars. Some of the 2014 models are starting to come through with a bar down. The heater problem is actually quite common with the most common cause being a short circuit in the ptc blowing a 30Amp glass fuse in the dc-to-dc converter. It's a job for a good diy mechanic, or a couple of hours in the garage.

The most important thing to consider is whether or not a car with 90km range per charge is going to cover you. If yes, then get a Gen1 and save yourself a few grand over a Gen1.5.

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But here is the key difference between EV and ICE, a new battery means the car is practically brand new again

I might try that for my ICE

If I put a brand new 1.9 tdi engine into my ICE will it be practically brand new again?

Will my suspension not squeak, my back wiper motor fix itself, wheel bearing in the rear be fixed, shock in drivers side etc all be practically new again?

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

The heater failures were pretty rare to be honest.

Plenty examples in the UK forums. Probably rare here because there is feck all Gen 1 cars around but I'd still check it.

Its a simple check anyway... hot air from the vents... check!

Soarer

Go for it.

Your daily drive is like mine, and my 2011 with 73% capacity suits pretty much all my daily driving.
I've LeafSpy now, and when the GOM shows - -, and the bars are all gone, LeafSpy shows another 15-20% depending. So I actually get more than I used to 12 months into ownership!

But like others have said, if you can budget for a 1.5, you'd be better off.

AstraMonti

Hello,

thanks for all the information. I haven't seen the car yet upclose so i will update once I can get some more info.
The avg daily distance for this car is going to be less than 40-50kms with sometimes needing around 60-70. It will be the second car so I am not too worried about how far it can go in one go.

If we hypothesise that the car has/almost lost one bar, and with an average mileage of 10k kms per year, how long (in theory) until the car is useless in terms of range? 4-5 years?

The decision for a gen1 is purely budget related, I need at least 2.5-3k more for a gen1.5 2014 one. I don't know if it makes any sense for what i need it.

KCross

AstraMonti wrote: »

The avg daily distance for this car is going to be less than 40-50kms with sometimes needing around 60-70. It will be the second car so I am not too worried about how far it can go in one go.

No issue then, buy it, if the price is right. The fact you only need 50kms normally and you have an ICE backup its perfect for the job.

AstraMonti wrote: »

If we hypothesise that the car has/almost lost one bar, and with an average mileage of 10k kms per year, how long (in theory) until the car is useless in terms of range? 4-5 years?

Should be much longer than that based on 50km daily need. The car is likely to give up the ghost before the battery is.

AstraMonti

Thanks, appreciate the replies. And I just found it has actually 11 bars left (which to be honest sounds more normal for the age/mileage of the car.)

monkeysnapper

I'm watching this with interest as I'm in exactly same situation .

My work is 1.5km away and I cycle that a lot anyway , then in evening I drive around 10km .

At weekend I'm doing lots of small runs and ussually drive no more than 50km .

I'm spending around 70/80 euros a month in petrol and I've only a year or so left in my car

We have a big family car so we have that if we need to go somewhere far .

My main concern is I might be better off just buying another small petrol car for 3/4 k but my heart says get an EV because I've been following them since 2010 like some strange stalker freak

Soarer

Just do it dude.

You won’t regret it.

goz83

And do it soon. Prices are slowly climbing. And now with the news of the 40 and 30kWh versions having battery issues, the 24kWh version is an attractive one.

unkel

+1

People like you who bought €5k Leafs will be able to run them for 5 years and still get their money back.

huggs2

Should be able to upgrade old batteries in the future and even upgrade to 40Kwh into the bargain.
https://insideevs.com/nissan-introduces-refabricated-batteries-for-older-leaf-in-japan-from-new-4r-plant/

KCross

huggs2 wrote: »

Should be able to upgrade old batteries in the future and even upgrade to 40Kwh into the bargain.
https://insideevs.com/nissan-introduces-refabricated-batteries-for-older-leaf-in-japan-from-new-4r-plant/

I think you've misread it.

You can get a refurbished like for like battery. They wont give you an upgrade from 24-->30-->40.

Markcheese

It's possible that they will, but at what cost... Plus it's Japan only.....
Are they just splitting old battery packs, and replacing the dud cells and reassembling and exchanging? If so I'm surprised other ompanies havent gotten in on the act..

AstraMonti

Hi again,

Can I please get your opinion on these stats?









Appreciate the help.

KCross

Its about 1% away from losing its second bar so that could happen in the first few weeks/months of you owning it.


From fully charged to turtle you have about 17kWh to work with. You will get 100km with that in summer in good conditions... just.

Whats the asking price?

AstraMonti

I can get this for 7.5k. The rest of the car looks in very good condition.

Chassis number 6466: 2011 or 2012? If you're happy to use this as a local run around, go for it. A colleague has a similar car and he reports that rapid charging is getting very slow now and that he has an effective range of 50 kilometres in winter. I think his car is down two bars.

Personally I think that a higher mileage gen 1.5 SV/SVE that comes with much improved battery would be a better buy at this stage: Extra 2.5k for way more usability. Alternatively this car but keep putting money aside for a battery refurb.

AstraMonti

It's a 2012. I am fine if I ll be able to do 50-60kms for the next few years. I am near my budget limit anyway. 2014 ones come near 10k, I don't want to go there.

goz83

AstraMonti wrote: »

I can get this for 7.5k. The rest of the car looks in very good condition.

That's an excellent price for a 2012 at the moment. My own 2012 has more miles and also 11 bars and I wouldn't take any less than 8k for it. I was going to upgrade to a 2015 after selling it, but I am now thinking of hanging onto it and putting some money aside for an eNV200 7 seater.

AstraMonti

Hi all, just to update I got the leaf. It is a brilliant little car and very modern inside for its age. The max I ve done is 70k and it was still saying I have 50 left. Fully charged it says I have 150kms but that's the guessometer being an ass.
And as I don't care about the range (I have charger at work) it's very fun to drive it out of the eco mode.
The maps are ancient but I am not bothered.
But for the consumption it shows me kwh/km, is there a way to change it to something more meaningful? It only goes up to 0.3kwh/km.

I also called Nissan for a service, and they quoted 129 euro for a pollen filter and a battery report. What am I missing here?

Thanks everyone for your help.

AstraMonti

The two pics showing what I mean about the consumption.

grogi

AstraMonti wrote: »

The two pics showing what I mean about the consumption.

Change it to kWh/100km. It is much more precise.

AstraMonti

grogi wrote: »

Change it to kWh/100km. It is much more precise.

How? Where?

Gumbo

AstraMonti wrote: »

How? Where?

Menu.
Use the button to the right of the steering wheel just below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOHEl2NqRoE

AstraMonti

That menu is a bit different for me, can't see any other option for that.

Soarer

Hey Astra, congrats on the purchase.

To the bottom right of the steering wheel, there are 4 buttons. The two you need are one with like a dot on it, and one with like two squares on it. Can't remember exactly, but one enters and scrolls through the menu options, the other changes the options.

As for the GOM, I found it was more trouble than it's worth. So what I've done is grab one of the old android phones that were lying around the house, installed LeafSpy, and I keep that in the car and watch the SOC in case I need to venture outside my usual 30kms per day.

Well wear.

Soarer

Also Astra, mine is 2011 and has 165k kms on her! She has two bars gone and is at 73% SOC.
A general rule of thumb I use is, every 1% SOC = 1km driving range, assuming you're not motorway driving and you've charged to 100%.
Again, which is why leafspy is so handy for the older cars.

AstraMonti

Thanks Soarer! I am only seeing in the settings an option to change it to either miles/kwh or kms/kwh, nothing else.

grogi

AstraMonti wrote: »

Thanks Soarer! I am only seeing in the settings an option to change it to either miles/kwh or kms/kwh, nothing else.

I'd use km/kWh then... Not what I would be used to, but 6.2 km/kWh still is more precise that 0.3 kWh/km.

AstraMonti

Sorry I made a balls of it. That's the only option I have:



And it only goes up to 0.3 kwh/km.

Maybe it needs a firmware update? Is it only Nissan that can do them?

Also another question, when I am stopped with the brake fully pressed in, it looks like it's consuming 0.3 kwh/km (the maximum). Does this make any sense?

In this photo I am stopped with the brake pressed:

KCross

AstraMonti wrote: »

Sorry I made a balls of it. That's the only option I have:


And it only goes up to 0.3 kwh/km.

Maybe it needs a firmware update? Is it only Nissan that can do them?

Also another question, when I am stopped with the brake fully pressed in, it looks like it's consuming 0.3 kwh/km (the maximum). Does this make any sense?

In this photo I am stopped with the brake pressed:

That screens shows the average, not the current consumption.

AstraMonti

Maybe I took the wrong photo, but the one that's shows the current consumption works the same way, when the brake pedal is pressed the consumption is 0.3.

KCross

AstraMonti wrote: »

Maybe I took the wrong photo, but the one that's shows the current consumption works the same way, when the brake pedal is pressed the consumption is 0.3.

Well, if you think about it, if you are not moving and you are using energy to power the car/lights/radio etc then your kWh/km figure will be bad.

Once you start moving it will improve.