Speeding... ugh. Lack of signage an argument?

xpletiv

So i got the lovely letter today. Doing 59 in a '50' zone. Incident happened just outside Newbridge, as if going to Kildare/m7 (R445, Ballymany)

Im annoyed as ive been trying so hard over last couple of years to watch my speed and note signs and even more so now as I have baby coming. However, something didnt feel right about this one to me.

So, I went and looked through google maps... All along the road I have been caught on (over 2km distance), there are no speed signs except for a 60km one at the very end near the Horse Racing Ireland place, which is near where motorway comes on. If I remember correctly, the van was positioned about 10-20 meters before the 60km sign. In fact, coming from the Athgarven Road and Newbridge Silver itself, there are no speed signs or markings at all. If anyone is familiar with this road, I am super surprised it isnt 60 the whole way and still suffers from the 50 limit from Newbridge itself.

To me, the lack of signage here is the problem, and so i do not wish to pay or receive points for this (ie, appeal). I can prove this all with google maps but also considering going back down and asking wife to record video if i were to appeal. Do I have any grounds to appeal? Im wondering if there is any precedent to this, or if i should just bite my 3 bloody points and 80 euro fine.

Spook_ie

Google maps would be unlikely to cut it with any kind of appeal, get video as it is now.

Unsure if it's the same here but speeding cases in the UK have been tossed out in the past because of the lack of repeater signs on roads.

In legislation, the default speed limit in built up areas is 30mph/50kmh unless sign posted otherwise.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no legislation on repeated speed signs being required. You knew you were coming from a 50km/h area and sped up despite not seeing any sign that indicated that the speed limit had increased. That spot is famous for catching speeders, and you have my sympathy!

I'd suggest writing to the Kildare CoCo roads department and request they add at least one speed sign between the crossroads at McLoughlins and the motorway roundabout. Maybe get in touch with your local councillor too.

Victor

xpletiv wrote: »

Lack of signage an argument?

Nope.

The presumption is that the signs are right, but this can be defeated by the actual bye-laws, which are what count.

http://speedlimits.ie/data/documents/Kildare-Co-Co-Signed-2011-speed-limit-byelaws.pdf

Stheno

Thats a well known speed trap

xpletiv

See my point is that there are no signs at all. or road markings, or anything. The road seems like a country road, not built up at all. In fact, I had said to my wife while driving along that road 'I have no idea what the speed limit is here'. Nothing clear at all.

Heavily considering putting this to appeal; what the process for this?

It would have been nice to Put in your OP that you were only interested in replies that agreed with you.

Del2005

xpletiv wrote: »

See my point is that there are no signs at all. or road markings, or anything. The road seems like a country road, not built up at all. In fact, I had said to my wife while driving along that road 'I have no idea what the speed limit is here'. Nothing clear at all.

Heavily considering putting this to appeal; what the process for this?

There's no appeal. You can accept that you were speeding and pay the penalty notice and get reduced points or not pay the penalty notice and go to court and argue your case.

The lack of knowledge of the offence is not a defence so you cannot use the lack of speed signs as a defence and you loose the penalty point discount if you go to court. Unless you hire a solicitor you will most likely be convicted, so you need to decide if the day off work and solicitor fees are going to be worth while investment.

Marcusm

xpletiv wrote: »

See my point is that there are no signs at all. or road markings, or anything. The road seems like a country road, not built up at all. In fact, I had said to my wife while driving along that road 'I have no idea what the speed limit is here'. Nothing clear at all.

Heavily considering putting this to appeal; what the process for this?

Are there street lights?

xpletiv

Wow, I never realised that horses got as high as in this thread.

To me, just biting the bullet is cowardly. There should be some accountability to council at least for lack of signage. How else are you supposed to know a speed limit? Psychic ability is still not something I have managed to evolve. Over 3km distance and not a single indication of speed.

Lets say I do go to court and I still get convicted; that is ok cause I least I feel I put my neck out a bit for it. When you get convicted do you get the 5 points and extra fine or can s/he just give the 3 and regular fine?

Its not about the money, its mostly about the points, but moreso its the principal. Seems cowardly just to accept this. We shouldnt be afraid of challenging our lawmakers!

GM228

Have a look through this thread in the Legal Discussion forum on the issue. It will answer the issues you raised OP.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057726979

xpletiv

@gm228 fantastic, thanks very much. Will have a read there!

xpletiv

BTW; if this is in Newbridge, what court would it go through? (not local, no idea where courts are for these things)

mikeecho

OP
You can fight it if you want, but I don't believe that you will be successful.

My only advice is, before the fine is due, go to your local court where traffic matters are being held.

Just go in for an hour or two, and observe.
It might open your eyes as to how the legal system works.

Hint: it ain't like the tv

Reati

xpletiv wrote: »

Wow, I never realised that horses got as high as in this thread.

Is this the default boards reply for threads like this?

• I need advice on x. Here's what happened and why I think I'm right.
• Several replies tell explain why fighting X is a lost cause with facts to back it up.
• OP starts attacking posters because they aren't patting him on the back and telling him he's in the right and it's an injustice.

Why did you bother asking here if you are just going to ignore the advice. Just bury the head and have your day in court and let us know how you get on?

xpletiv

GM228 wrote: »

Have a look through this thread in the Legal Discussion forum on the issue. It will answer the issues you raised OP.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057726979

Just want to thank you for being the only one to actually give proper constructive post here; this had my answers in it.

xpletiv

Reati wrote: »

Is this the default boards reply for threads like this?

• I need advice on x. Here's what happened and why I think I'm right.
• Several replies tell explain why fighting X is a lost cause with facts to back it up.
• OP starts attacking posters because they aren't patting him on the back and telling him he's in the right and it's an injustice.

Why did you bother asking here if you are just going to ignore the advice. Just bury the head and have your day in court and let us know how you get on?

Wow. the highest horse of all. Gobsheen.

No idea how these fellas/lassies managed to read that I was ignoring information, as clearly im looking for information, and debating if its worth pursuing or not. Just cause youre thinking 'you sped, pay it' doesnt have any recourse doesnt mean you are wrong.

Mod please close this, dont want any more morons not able to read...

Reati

See, same nonsense. Attack other posters because you are wrong.

Anyway, let us know how court goes. I'm sure the judge will see things your way.

xpletiv

Yes, after being given information excellently and communicated properly, I agree I am wrong. Its a shame though, bad motor laws in this country if thats the way it is. Whats more shameful is the attitude of posters in this thread.