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London Irish - Time to buy a fifth province

  • 27-03-2018 9:25am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭ Rigor Mortis


    According to the London Times, London Irish may be on the market. Is it time that the IRFU considered buying the LI share in the Premiership. It would make sense if at some stage they move to a fixed team system with no relegation.

    Another development province for players and coaches. It would also get around the logjam of players who need to leave their province but dont want to move to a rival.

    Scotland have looked at something similar with Worcester


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 irishfan9


    No, it's not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭ Wegians89


    Think it’s potentially a good one idea, would prefer if London Irish then joined in the pro14 in its next expansion


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,792 ✭✭✭ Exclamation Marc


    Not a chance of it happening.

    Too much of a financial commitment, too much risk over the premiership status and the current model of strength in depth is working wonders in Ireland at the moment to consider taking talented players away from academies/development to prop up another team that wouldn't be good enough to compete abroad.

    Cutting a layer off this depth and moving it to an English team makes no sense. Provinces would struggle when injuries or absences occur and all you would have to show for it is a glorified B-team in the English league system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭ Interested Observer


    I doubt the money is there for the necessary level of investment. And keep in mind these English clubs need money pumped into them to keep up with their rivals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭ BBDBB


    why not?

    the timing is pretty good

    the Pro 14 has shown that a cross international borders league can work

    Irish rugby is riding high, fierce competition for places, the province academies are starting to really produce some talented lads coming through

    The term "fifth province" may be a bit politically laden, but why not expand our horizons, even if it gets blocked or its decided not to proceed, I think its worth exploring as a concept


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    English clubs have been fined for allowing Welsh players play outside the international window. How do you think our system would work within that kind of system?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,320 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2


    According to the London Times, London Irish may be on the market. Is it time that the IRFU considered buying the LI share in the Premiership. It would make sense if at some stage they move to a fixed team system with no relegation.

    Another development province for players and coaches. It would also get around the logjam of players who need to leave their province but dont want to move to a rival.

    Scotland have looked at something similar with Worcester

    would there not be some sort of conflict of interest blocking that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭ Interested Observer


    English clubs have been fined for allowing Welsh players play outside the international window. How do you think our system would work within that kind of system?

    Very good point. Players would have to be released during the off-weeks in the 6N for example. I know he won't be here forever but Schmidt just wouldn't select those players under those circumstances.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,016 ✭✭✭ Bridge93


    The money needed to keep them even moderately competitive would severely hamper the 4 provinces. The fans won't buy into it either


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    It's not feasible. Aside from the massive financial commitment (which the IRFU could not take on), there are administrative aspects such as London Irish being governed by an entity outside of the IRFU jurisdiction which would make it a minefield.

    Given that the academy and development set up in Ireland is thriving generally, it would be madness to sink a huge amount into a team that are about to be relegated and compete in a league that is filled with teams which are generally weaker than the provincial A sides.

    If the IRFU wants to approach a private investor about expanding the Pro14 to include a London based team and bringing LI into the fold, that's another story.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    why not just get rid of the provinces and have five or six club teams in Ireland?

    it would effectively be the same thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭ Interested Observer


    Aegir wrote: »
    why not just get rid of the provinces

    Because absolutely nobody wants that, bar maybe yourself?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,033 ✭✭✭ nerd69


    No real need it's not like we have 4 powerhouses and we're kicking players out. Leicester have possibly to many players coming through but we have 3 other provinces for those players to go to


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭ GavMan


    nerd69 wrote: »
    No real need it's not like we have 4 powerhouses and we're kicking players out. Leicester have possibly to many players coming through but we have 3 other provinces for those players to go to

    Agreed. Ulster are only a cut above Treviso these days. Lets fix that first


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    The Aviva Premiership seems a ticking time bomb nowadays. Really concerned the direction they're heading.

    I'd say steer well clear


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,406 ✭✭✭ joseywhales


    I like the idea of annexation of English clubs into the pro 14. They can play a higher standard of rugby there and we can get access to the english tv market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,596 ✭✭✭ Rigor Mortis


    GavMan wrote: »
    Agreed. Ulster are only a cut above Treviso these days. Lets fix that first

    That's a management not a personnel or finance problem


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭ case885


    Surely the RFU will invest like the WRU did with the dragons and use it for centrally contracted players.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 irishbucsfan


    We already have a development province, they’re called Ulster


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,594 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    Why the hell would the IRFU want to stretch it’s budgets and thus weaken the 4 provinces? As it is we are importing players at each of the provinces. So spread the player pool even thinner and the budget too, to what end? How would this benefit the Irish setup in any way?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    London Irish haven't been meaningfully Irish in about 20 years, and besides, we don't have enough players to justify a proper fifth side.

    I think the reality is that most of the guys who end up plying their trade out foreign do so because they're not really good enough for their home province. There's been a few who've bucked that trend (Beirne and Farrell being the obvious ones), but the current model of "go abroad, prove your worth, come home" is working fine IMO. Let other clubs take the risks, we'll reap the benefits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭ thomond2006


    I'd rather the money I spend on Irish Rugby stays on this island tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    According to the London Times, London Irish may be on the market. Is it time that the IRFU considered buying the LI share in the Premiership. It would make sense if at some stage they move to a fixed team system with no relegation.

    Another development province for players and coaches. It would also get around the logjam of players who need to leave their province but dont want to move to a rival.

    Scotland have looked at something similar with Worcester
    It would be a waste of money and the money spent would be far better spent on developing the clubs and "non traditional" schools in the country.
    BBDBB wrote: »
    why not?

    the timing is pretty good

    the Pro 14 has shown that a cross international borders league can work

    Irish rugby is riding high, fierce competition for places, the province academies are starting to really produce some talented lads coming through

    The term "fifth province" may be a bit politically laden, but why not expand our horizons, even if it gets blocked or its decided not to proceed, I think its worth exploring as a concept
    Because we dont utilise our current 4 provinces already. Why add a fifth team. RFU wouldnt allow it/want it.
    London Irish haven't been meaningfully Irish in about 20 years, and besides, we don't have enough players to justify a proper fifth side.

    I think the reality is that most of the guys who end up plying their trade out foreign do so because they're not really good enough for their home province. There's been a few who've bucked that trend (Beirne and Farrell being the obvious ones), but the current model of "go abroad, prove your worth, come home" is working fine IMO. Let other clubs take the risks, we'll reap the benefits.
    Amateur club is very irish but pro side has came back to being more irish in recent years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,451 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    Maybe if some Irish millionaire with no sense buys in there could be loan deals done on occasion to suit ourselves, but the irfu have no need to spend money abroad


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭ Interested Observer


    If the club were to join the Pro14 I think that's the only possible way something like this would approach being feasible. But I don't think it's feasible at all really.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,299 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Dravokivich


    It wasn't too long ago that the media (at least online) were pushing question marks around Connacht's viability looking to press it was a burden for the irfu hampering the other provinces. If there was any truth in it then, why should they be looking to expand?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭ Interested Observer


    It wasn't too long ago that the media (at least online) were pushing question marks around Connacht's viability looking to press it was a burden for the irfu hampering the other provinces. If there was any truth in it then, why should they be looking to expand?

    Because circumstances change? That was years ago.

    Of all the reasons not to do this, this isn't one of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭ thomond2006


    If LI were relegated and then the Premiership was ringfenced then why not invite them to Pro14?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    It wasn't too long ago that the media (at least online) were pushing question marks around Connacht's viability looking to press it was a burden for the irfu hampering the other provinces. If there was any truth in it then, why should they be looking to expand?

    What??

    "The media" were pushing to disband Connacht?

    When did this happen?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,440 ✭✭✭ daheff


    i think it could be a good idea. Especially if it could be done on a basis where a lot of cash does not need to be injected to them every season.


    Would mean that we would then have 5 'clubs/provinces' to have players playing at.

    Whether we like it or not, English Premiership and French Top14 are big draws to players...and will continue to get bigger as their money increases.

    At least this way IRFU could offer top players who want to play abroad an opportunity to play in London for LI....and get to keep control over them.


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