How much protein should i eat?

The Fox of Glenarvon

I'm receiving conflicting advice regarding protein requirements.  I've been told that I need 1 gram of protein per lb of body-weight. My target weight is 165 lbs.
However, other websites are telling me that I should get 50 % of my daily calories from protein. That would leave me at 250 grams of protein a day.
There is a big difference between 165 grams of protein a day and 250 grams of protein for someone whoes target weights is 165 lbs.
My goal is to get ripped.
Can anyone give me advice?

Alf Veedersane

Target is closer to 0.82g/lb but 1g/lb is easier to remember as a rule of thumb. No biggie if you go over but you don't need 250g

Cake Man

250g of protein is madness, nobody needs that much. 1g per pound of body weight is more than enough (it’s actually per pound of lean body mass, so if you weighed say 150lbs, obviously not all of that is lean muscle)

jigglypuffstuff

Ridiculous amount of protein...in general it's grossly overstated figure amongst gym goers.
I have very visible abs with zero added cardio at a ratio of 55C/25F/20P


20% of calories is more than enough for normal gym goers IME ( keep fit people, rugby, GAA etc)...25 MAYBE if you're a serious athlete engaged in serious strength training
( people doing competition weightlifting or that competitive crossfit etc).

There's absolutely no need increase protein intake beyond what's actually needed.l, which is as another pointed out below 1g/lb

The 1/g lb is a silly bodybuilder figure imo.... focus on quality of your food (adaquete fiber/ micronutrients) and regular weight sessions with some split or combination of high repetition ( 12-15 ) for some glycogen depletion and medium to lower for strength (6-10)...shorten rest periods on the former paired with antagonist supersets for a cardio effect during weight sessions

Mellor

The problem with with quoting figures in protein is terms of g/KG(BW) and % of intake is that neither considers the whole picture.

g/KG suggests that the guy trying to lose weight and the guy trying to bulk up have the same needs, which I doubt it true.

On the other hand, % of intake suggests that the guy eating bulking on 3600 cals has twice the needs as the guy cutting on 1800 cals. Probably not the case either.

Blacktie.

Mellor wrote: »

g/KG suggests that the guy trying to lose weight and the guy trying to bulk up have the same needs, which I doubt it true.

There's some studies on this actually and surprisingly if you're cutting you need more protein than if you're bulking. Always thought it would be the other way around.

I guess it's because when cutting some protein will be used as energy so can't be put to use maintaining what you have. But that's just a stab in the dark by me.

Mellor

Blacktie. wrote: »

I guess it's because when cutting some protein will be used as energy so can't be put to use maintaining what you have. But that's just a stab in the dark by me.

But if that protein that is used as energy was carbs instead. Couldn't it still be used for energy.

Blacktie.

Mellor wrote: »

But if that protein that is used as energy was carbs instead. Couldn't it still be used for energy.

Well I'm guessing that since you're in a deficit the carbs you are taking in just aren't covering your energy needs and the transition to fat use isn't instant so it uses what's available through gluconeogenesis. Could be some other completely different reason for all I know though.

Tar.Aldarion

https://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

• There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle for natural trainees. This already includes a mark-up, since most research finds no more benefits after 0.64g/lb.
• Optimal protein intake decreases with training age, because your body becomes more efficient at preventing protein breakdown resulting from training and less protein is needed for the increasingly smaller amount of muscle that is built after each training session.

Older you are the less you need and the longer you've been training the less you need.

0.64 is pretty safe and 0.82 already has a markup, these are of lean body mass, so say you have 15%BF@165 that would be 89.6g protein @0.64g or 114g protein @0.82g.
Link above goes into a lot more detail, talks about cutting also. For the average person who doesn't train the values would be even less. 10% of his or her total daily calories.

seefin

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Older you are the less you need and the longer you've been training the less you need.

From what I've read online, recent studies say the older you are the more you need ?

Tar.Aldarion

Actually meant "training age" from the quote above, sorry!

dines08

Mellor wrote: »

But if that protein that is used as energy was carbs instead. Couldn't it still be used for energy.

Again, not 100% but from my understanding and from what I've been told from coaches and well informed PTs is that protein is very important when cutting. Your body will burn fat and lean mass when losing weight. The high protein aids in protecting the lean mass being used as an energy source. You'll lose fat and lean mass when losing weight but with 1g per pound of body weight protein each day then the loss of lean mass is reduced. Just what I've heard a few times, not necessarily sure if true via studies.

DickSwiveller

Is it healthy to eat nuts every day? I read that they are healthy but then read that they have a lot of calories.

Mellor

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Is it healthy to eat nuts every day? I read that they are healthy but then read that they have a lot of calories.

They are healthy and they have lots of calories.
Neither of those are mutually exclusive

Mellor

dines08 wrote: »

Again, not 100% but from my understanding and from what I've been told from coaches and well informed PTs is that protein is very important when cutting. Your body will burn fat and lean mass when losing weight. The high protein aids in protecting the lean mass being used as an energy source. You'll lose fat and lean mass when losing weight but with 1g per pound of body weight protein each day then the loss of lean mass is reduced. Just what I've heard a few times, not necessarily sure if true via studies.

That's an entirely different issue tbh.
You need adequate protein to maintain muscle. Im disputing the benefit of extra beyond that point. Extra protein "for energy" may as well be extra carbs or fat in equivalent amounts.

DickSwiveller

Mellor wrote: »

They are healthy and they have lots of calories.
Neither of those are mutually exclusive

Sorry if I'm coming across as naive. I know nothing about diet etc. Would it be unhealthy to eat them every day?

Alf Veedersane

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Sorry if I'm coming across as naive. I know nothing about diet etc. Would it be unhealthy to eat them every day?

Just because there are lots of calories in something, doesn't mean it's unhealthy.

You can have them every day but it depends on how much you eat and what you eat over the course of a day in terms of calorie intake. Too many and you start to put on excess weight

Mellor

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Sorry if I'm coming across as naive. I know nothing about diet etc. Would it be unhealthy to eat them every day?

Nothing wrong with eating them everyday as long as it's not causing excess calories overall.

AllForIt

Meta research study done recently on optimal protein consumption for muscle gain as referenced here by Scobby. The conclusion doesn't particularity surprise me from my own experience.

Tar.Aldarion

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Sorry if I'm coming across as naive. I know nothing about diet etc. Would it be unhealthy to eat them every day?

Nuts are really healthy, I eat them every day. I get enough selenium from one brazil nut. As the others have said just be aware of calories.

dines08 wrote: »

Again, not 100% but from my understanding and from what I've been told from coaches and well informed PTs is that protein is very important when cutting. Your body will burn fat and lean mass when losing weight. The high protein aids in protecting the lean mass being used as an energy source. You'll lose fat and lean mass when losing weight but with 1g per pound of body weight protein each day then the loss of lean mass is reduced. Just what I've heard a few times, not necessarily sure if true via studies.

In this study 0.73g per lb prevented any muscle loss while cutting
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156

Mellor

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

In this study 0.73g per lb prevented any muscle loss while cutting
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156

Not quite Tara.

Both had stable LBM but LBM doesn't equal Muscle Mass.
The nitrogen balance is the big indicator here.

However, lean body mass (LBM) change as assessed by NBAL showed that the moderate-protein (0.8 g/k) group had an average negative NBAL of -3.19 g.d-1 while the high-protein (1.6 g/kg) group had a positive NBAL of 4.13 g.d-1...

In conclusion, a hypoenergy diet providing twice the RDA for protein was more effective in retaining body protein in WL than a diet with higher carbohydrate but the RDA for protein. However, the lower carbohydrate of this diet contributed to reduced muscular endurance in these athletes.

Tar.Aldarion

AFAIK LBM is just everything but fat, so includes bones etc, the only meanigful difference there could be if it was possible to lose muscle mass and gain mass in your organs or something?

I don't know much about nitrogen balance apart from positive is seen as good for protein metabolism, so I'm guessing it's an important component to building muscle. Must learn more about it.

I think you are reading lbs/kg wrong there by accident as that backs up my above post. The first half of your quote says that there was a negative NBAL if they took 0.8g/kg which means they were taking the RDA of protein as a baseline, 0.8g/kg = 0.36g/lb (which is the protein RDA). The second half backs up what i said above which recommends twice the RDA which is 0.36x2=0.72g/lb. The group in the study had their intake measured in g/kg however so for the high protein group it was 1.6g/kg = 0.72727... ~= 0.73g/lb. That also means it's likely that there is some figure with a high CI (>95) between 0.36g/lb and 0.73/lb that works too, however it wasn't measured, they kept it simply by using RDA and 2xRDA as a test.

Mellor

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

AFAIK LBM is just everything but fat, so includes bones etc, the only meanigful difference there could be if it was possible to lose muscle mass and gain mass in your organs or something?

LBM fluctuates on a daily basis. Drink a litre of water, you've put on 1kg LBM temporarily. Muscle mass hasn't actually changed though.

I don't know much about nitrogen balance apart from positive is seen as good for protein metabolism, so I'm guessing it's an important component to building muscle. Must learn more about it.

Protein is the only macro that contains nitrogen. Nitrogen balance is a measurement of nitrogen intake verses output.
Negative nitrogen balance means you are losing more nitrogen than you take it. Only cause is catabolism of lean mass.
Positive equal tissue growth.

I think you are reading lbs/kg wrong there by accident as that backs up my above post. The first half of your quote says that there was a negative NBAL if they took 0.8g/kg which means they were taking the RDA of protein as a baseline, 0.8g/kg = 0.36g/lb (which is the protein RDA). The second half backs up what i said above which recommends twice the RDA which is 0.36x2=0.72g/lb. The group in the study had their intake measured in g/kg however so for the high protein group it was 1.6g/kg = 0.72727... ~= 0.73g/lb. That also means it's likely that there is some figure with a high CI (>95) between 0.36g/lb and 0.73/lb that works too, however it wasn't measured, they kept it simply by using RDA and 2xRDA as a test.

I think I misread your post and thought you were refering to the low protein group in the initial post. Probably the mixed of metric and imperial. Grams/lb bugs me

The low protein group (RDA) were catabolic.
The high protein group (2xRDA) were anabolic.

0.8g/kg is probably not sufficient. 1.6g/Kg probably is.
2g might not be anybetter. But it could be

j@utis

There's one more catch in upping protein intake when in deficit: protein digestion and absorption process requires about ~20% of energy it contains, so higher protein amount in the diet will result in even greater deficit that is on the paper when calculating 4kcal per gram (if protein is used for energy here of course).

Alf Veedersane

I love barbecued protein.



That is all.