Mitsubishi Outlander, any reason not to consider one?

quenching

I need a large family car for occasional 400km round trips with 2 adults and 3 children, often with luggage so a decent sized boot is essential. I don’t want a diesel, and 4 wheel drive would be a bonus, more for safety than off road use. It must be automatic as I’m not changing gears for the car anymore. An Outlander PHEV seems to fit the bill and it will also cover my 30km commute on electricity alone. I can get a 2015 GX4H model with 60k miles from the north for €19k inc VRT while they seem to sell for €24k here. The other alternative is a Toyota RAV4 hydrid.

Does this model Outlander have a electric heater than can preheat the car or heat without the petrol engine running? I’m finding it hard to answer this.

Any reason not to consider one?

DublinDilbert

GX4H should have leather, reverse camera, wifi, electric pre-heat etc... great car for the money, drive fairly good too.

peposhi

While the boot is nearly the same, the gh4 PHEV Outlander is better equipped and nicer to drive. Plus you’d actually save more money (even though it’s only a little) if you drive your PHEV on leccy only for short distances than the hybrid...

H.E. Pennypacker

I'm strongly considering one myself. GX4H is definitely worth going for over the GX3 just for pre-heat alone.

Electric Autos in Naas have a 2015 GX4H coming in for €19.5k and have a good rep for customer service

http://www.electricautos.ie/vehicles/mitsubishi/outlander/kildare/1978441

unkel

Because plenty of these were sold in the UK as compliance cars (for BIK reasons), a lot of them come out of lease and are sold on relatively cheaply. VRT on them is cheap as you get a €2,500 discount on the VRT bill because it is a PHEV

By all means the Outlander looks like one of the best PHEV to consider, also because it has a relative large battery, good for about 50km on electric only. Which is plenty for most people's daily driving

You also qualify for a €600 subsidy for a charge point home install (which is just about manageable for that kinda money, so it would be free really)

If the car suits your needs, I can't think of a single reason not to buy it. Go for it

Mooooo

Whats the tow rating do ye know?

H.E. Pennypacker

Mooooo wrote: »

Whats the tow rating do ye know?

1500 kg braked

unkel

1500kg

Did you forget how to google something?

Shefwedfan

Actually looking at one of these myself. I would personally go GX4H to get the full leather. Seemingly there is a higher spec version which is a GX4Hs, it has adaptive cruise control and lane departure warning.

I also found a GX5Hs on autotrader but not sure yet what extras this has, maybe rear seats heated and it says HD sat nav???

A couple of things to note, a lot of Irish dealers are buying them with 60k miles+. They are getting them on the cheap because the UK warranty is up after 62k miles. So the UK dealers are selling them off on the cheap. So the Irish dealer is making a bigger margin.

I think the battery has a 8 year/100k miles warranty on it. Need that confirmed.

The boot is the bit I need to confirm. I am looking at it to replace a Galaxy. According to parker.co.uk the boot has 591 ltr and the Galaxy with the back 2 seats dropped down only has 435 which seems very strange. I need to have a look.

Currently getting 30-35MPG in Galaxy and it is driving me nuts. It is used for small journeys so a PHEV would be perfect....I didnt buy before because of lack of 7 seats but have a way around that

Forgot to mention, it was phil in Electric autos who was giving me some pointers

DublinDilbert

I believe the towing ratting is lower on the PHEV (due to the increased battery weight) than the diesel to keep the total weight under 3.5 tons on a standard licence.

MY partner has the Diesel 7 seater, I wanted her to get the PHEV but she wanted the 7 seats which we rarely use and she has absolutely no interest in what powers a car but I think she's now seeing how hard it is on diesel, it gets 33-35 mph or I can get 40-42 in it with effort and 100 Kph or less.

It's a very refined car and you wouldn't notice driving at 140 Km/h, you'd think you were driving at 100.

It handles like a boat and there's little steering feel but that's noticeable for such a vehicle, good boot, it's a nice comfortable ride.

Yes the PHEV preheats and you can use the fast chargers to top up.

Shefwedfan

is the fast charger connection the same as Leaf?

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

is the fast charger connection the same as Leaf?

Yes, it's ChaDeMo. More of them around than CCS.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, it's ChaDeMo. More of them around than CCS.

If I did buy one I would love to block up Fast chargers all around Ireland.....I love the many many posts on the IEVOA facebook page giving out about inconsiderate PHEV drivers :p:p:p:p:p

LOl ,Think I might block a few myself with the rex and disappear into shopping centres.

I used to leave a note on the dash in the Leaf if I had to leave to plug me out or had my number to call me.

This time I'll leave a note saying, haha should've bought a Rex !

ELM327

Any reason not to consider one?
Other than the 30-35km real world EV range and slow (22kW) chademo charge speed, no.
They are very good at what they do, short trips where you have charging after 30km. Said to offer 35-40mpg max on ICE mode, so not economical on one off trips but if your main trips are less than 30km it will save you money.

Shefwedfan

I was wondering, do they have the option to slot in a sim and create a wireless network in the car? I seen mention of it somewhere

Never heard about putting a sim in it.

H.E. Pennypacker

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I was wondering, do they have the option to slot in a sim and create a wireless network in the car? I seen mention of it somewhere

It connects to a wifi network but doesn't provide one itself:

https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/hacking-the-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-hybrid-suv/

Shefwedfan

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

It connects to a wifi network but doesn't provide one itself:

https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/hacking-the-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-hybrid-suv/

So if you want to preheat the car etc you need to have it connected to your home wifi?

unkel

Ioniq connects to home wifi to download traffic info, etc. before you drive off.

DublinDilbert

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

It connects to a wifi network but doesn't provide one itself:

https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/hacking-the-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-hybrid-suv/

The vehicle provides an access point, to allow a phone connect, give it an IP address and allow the phone communicate with the vehicle.

gizmo555

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So if you want to preheat the car etc you need to have it connected to your home wifi?

Not necessarily, you can also set a timer in the car itself.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Any reason not to consider one?
Other than the 30-35km real world EV range and slow (22kW) chademo charge speed, no.
They are very good at what they do, short trips where you have charging after 30km. Said to offer 35-40mpg max on ICE mode, so not economical on one off trips but if your main trips are less than 30km it will save you money.

The 22 Kw ChaDeMo isn't that slow charging a 12 Kwh battery. Better to have it than not and save some petrol.

The Diesel isn't much better economy wise believe me.

The PHEV has potential to save a lot of fuel depending on how much you can keep the battery topped up and how far you drive in one go, you can use the AC points also instead of hanging around at fast chargers if the opportunity arises when you get into town.

funnyname

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I didnt buy before because of lack of 7 seats but have a way around that

Bit intrigued by that statement, putting extra seats on the roof?

Shefwedfan

funnyname wrote: »

Bit intrigued by that statement, putting extra seats on the roof?

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

The Diesel isn't much better economy wise believe me.

The PHEV has potential to save a lot of fuel depending on how much you can keep the battery topped up and how far you drive in one go, you can use the AC points also instead of hanging around at fast chargers if the opportunity arises when you get into town.

Yes I agree. If you can keep the car charged - as I called it "opportunistic charging" - ie charging when the car is parked anyway so you're not going out of your way - then yes it works well once each trip is 30-40km max between charging.

Deleted User wrote: »

The 22 Kw ChaDeMo isn't that slow charging a 12 Kwh battery. Better to have it than not and save some petrol.

Yes I understand but in terms of time, you spend 30 minutes "fast" charging to gain about 25km of range. That's fine when its free but if you have to pay €4-€6 for a charge then it wont be used.

gizmo555

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes I understand but in terms of time, you spend 30 minutes "fast" charging to gain about 25km of range.

My experience is that it takes me 20 minutes to gain 30km of range.

ELM327

gizmo555 wrote: »

My experience is that it takes me 20 minutes to gain 30km of range.

As an owner? If so then I will defer to your experience obviously (I'm not mad_lad) but stll 20minutes waiting for 30km? Surely that's not time economical?

Shefwedfan

I am just wondering what the depreciation is on these? are they holding value or dropping similar to electric cars?

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am just wondering what the depreciation is on these? are they holding value or dropping similar to electric cars?

Getting quite cheap in the UK, priced ridiculously over here (19-20k)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712192156096?model=OUTLANDER&make=MITSUBISHI&postcode=ig61lu&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&sort=price-asc&aggregatedTrim=PHEV&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1


https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803144561293?model=OUTLANDER&make=MITSUBISHI&postcode=ig61lu&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&sort=price-asc&aggregatedTrim=PHEV&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes I understand but in terms of time, you spend 30 minutes "fast" charging to gain about 25km of range. That's fine when its free but if you have to pay €4-€6 for a charge then it wont be used.

If you're paying per Kwh then it doesn't matter a Kwh is a Kwh, at least that's what the ESB are doing in London, charging 24 P per Kwh. I see no reason they won't charge per kwh here too.

The AC points might continue to be free for some time.

The greatest disadvantage of the PHEV is not having so much kwh from your home charge point to begin with relying more on public charging but if a lot of your driving is met from home charging and you need occasional public charging then it's not that big a deal.

The Diesel version as I said is not cheap to run, 32-40 mpg and 32 would be driving about 130 Kph and 40 mpg driving 80-100 Kph.

It would be convenient if you could get one for a few days to test it out on some familiar runs.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Getting quite cheap in the UK, priced ridiculously over here (19-20k)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712192156096?model=OUTLANDER&make=MITSUBISHI&postcode=ig61lu&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&sort=price-asc&aggregatedTrim=PHEV&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1


https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803144561293?model=OUTLANDER&make=MITSUBISHI&postcode=ig61lu&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&sort=price-asc&aggregatedTrim=PHEV&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

I think they're getting a lot more popular and there isn't the flood of them available here. Imagine the used values after Brexit !

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're paying per Kwh then it doesn't matter a Kwh is a Kwh, at least that's what the ESB are doing in London, charging 24 P per Kwh. I see no reason they won't charge per kwh here too.

The AC points might continue to be free for some time.

The greatest disadvantage of the PHEV is not having so much kwh from your home charge point to begin with relying more on public charging but if a lot of your driving is met from home charging and you need occasional public charging then it's not that big a deal.

The Diesel version as I said is not cheap to run, 32-40 mpg and 32 would be driving about 130 Kph and 40 mpg driving 80-100 Kph.

It would be convenient if you could get one for a few days to test it out on some familiar runs.

So you wait 20 minutes and pay 2.40 for a charge? To drive 30km? Madness.

The Outlander PHEV has its uses and its a great car within those parameters... but relying on fast charging is not one of them

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I think they're getting a lot more popular and there isn't the flood of them available here. Imagine the used values after Brexit !

It's because they are referred to as the "taxlander" over there due to the BIK impacts. Owned on lease until end of OEM warranty and then sold on on the cheap after 3-4 years.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

Getting quite cheap in the UK, priced ridiculously over here (19-20k)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712192156096?model=OUTLANDER&make=MITSUBISHI&postcode=ig61lu&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&sort=price-asc&aggregatedTrim=PHEV&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1


https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803144561293?model=OUTLANDER&make=MITSUBISHI&postcode=ig61lu&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&sort=price-asc&aggregatedTrim=PHEV&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

They are dirth cheap after 100k miles as no OEM warranty on them.

zilog_jones

ELM327 wrote: »

So you wait 20 minutes and pay 2.40 for a charge? To drive 30km? Madness.

It would cost about the same to drive a diesel in an urban environment, probably more in London assuming higher cost of diesel over there and additional congestion charge (Outlander PHEV is exempt). And then there's benefits in refinement of driving a PHEV in EV mode, and local emissions (assuming you care ). We're talking about destination charging, so no one's waiting around for their car.

ELM327

zilog_jones wrote: »

It would cost about the same to drive a diesel in an urban environment, probably more in London assuming higher cost of diesel over there and additional congestion charge (Outlander PHEV is exempt). And then there's benefits in refinement of driving a PHEV in EV mode, and local emissions (assuming you care ). We're talking about destination charging, so no one's waiting around for their car.

No... the 20 minutes we were specifically discussing the merits of chademo charging.

Short trips less than 30km with slow charging at either end with no waiting on the car is the ideal environment for the Outlander and you'll save money and emissions running pretty much on EV mode.

Charging every 30 km for 20 mins and paying 2.40 for the privilege is not. 2.40 would get you 30km in most diesels with no wait time.

zilog_jones

Mad_Lad was talking about the charging points that ESBN are installing in London. Without knowing specifics on the locations besides being "in London" and commissioned by TfL, I'd suspect they are still destination chargers in urban areas, be they rapid or otherwise - and not inter-city chargers.

Nobody's talking about nonsensical situations of stopping to charge every 30km.

gizmo555

ELM327 wrote: »

As an owner? If so then I will defer to your experience obviously (I'm not mad_lad) but stll 20minutes waiting for 30km? Surely that's not time economical?

ELM327 wrote: »

So you wait 20 minutes and pay 2.40 for a charge? To drive 30km? Madness.

I seldom use FCP's - maybe once a month - and only if I'm on a longer road trip when I need to take a break anyway. As I mentioned in another thread, it's not about saving money, just about making a small reduction in my use of fossil fuel. And, like everyone else, for the moment I don't pay anything to use the charging points. But, if I did pay €2.40 (and I'm not clear where that figure came from), it would still be as cheap or probably cheaper then the petrol equivalent.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

So you wait 20 minutes and pay 2.40 for a charge? To drive 30km? Madness.

The Outlander PHEV has its uses and its a great car within those parameters... but relying on fast charging is not one of them

Well for now it's free here and better to have fast charging then want it. But I expect free charging to end sooner rather than later.

And if it works out too expensive when charges are introduced then you always have the backup of petrol but depending on your driving you might end up saving more with the PHEV than the Diesel and perhaps a good bit more , you'll just have to plug it in much more than a BEV.

How would it fit within you usage ? I never recommend people go out and buy such a car without taking it for a day or two test drive on familiar routes.

If it's a diesel you end up getting then you might be able to find something more efficient but I suppose most similar sized cars will be hard enough on diesel.

peposhi

I did a 24h test drive back in January. The one thing that kept coming to my mind - why couldn’t they make the Outlander do 90-100km on battery alone and then to use petrol. I guess after more than 75k km in aan EV it was hard to put up with 30-40km battery only driving. Perhaps for anyone coming if an ICE it would/could work really well.
I did love the size and space in it though. An it is very nippy for the weight of it

unkel

peposhi wrote: »

I did a 24h test drive back in January. The one thing that kept coming to my mind - why couldn’t they make the Outlander do 90-100km on battery alone and then to use petrol.

Ah here. The Outlander already has one of the biggest ranges on battery alone of all PHEV!

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Ah here. The Outlander already has one of the biggest ranges on battery alone of all PHEV!

Yeah, it's behind really only the Volt/ampera, Kia Niro PHEV, and the best of the lot, the i3 rex

zilog_jones

It's also behind the (2nd gen) Prius PHV, and probably not much different from the Golf GTE.

peposhi wrote: »

I did a 24h test drive back in January. The one thing that kept coming to my mind - why couldn’t they make the Outlander do 90-100km on battery alone and then to use petrol.

You can either have a PHEV with a normal-ish engine, normal size fuel tank, and small battery, or a range extender type with a small engine, small tank and large battery (like the i3 REx) - you can't have it both ways.

Shefwedfan

I am still not sure, how many KM can you get from the battery running in EV mode? standard city driving?

Is it 30km or 50km?

zilog_jones

The 2018 Outlander PHEV got a US EPA all-electric range of 22 miles or 35 km, which should be achievable in the real world.

NEDC rating is 52 km, which probably won't happen outside of a lab.

Shefwedfan

zilog_jones wrote: »

The 2018 Outlander PHEV got a US EPA all-electric range of 22 miles or 35 km, which should be achievable in the real world.

NEDC rating is 52 km, which probably won't happen outside of a lab.

Checked distance this morning, 15km to drop kids off at school and get home.....

So that would mean I could do schools runs on battery alone....also giving the chance to charge it up during the day if going out in afternoon, so in reality could do majority of daily trips on battery

unkel

Yep if you have the discipline to plug it in every day or even several times a day. I'm an average mileage driver like yourself and I could drive a 35-50km range PHEV on 80-90% EV without too much effort

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

Yep if you have the discipline to plug it in every day or even several times a day. I'm an average mileage driver like yourself and I could drive a 35-50km range PHEV on 80-90% EV without too much effort

If and it is a big if I would buy then I would expect to charge during the day, the eGolf would then need the night time to charge

Longer term would need to look at dual charger set up.....another days work

Here's the trick though, electric motors offer mega performance for their size so you can get away with a smaller engine and fit in more batteries, use the engine for generation purposes and install a larger battery. Not rocket science.

Better packaging also helps.

I'm sure Mitsubishi could fit maybe 30 Kwh at this stage, look at the i3 33 Kwh chassis and compare it to the much larger Outlander + the outlander has a large overhang to fit the engine while the i3 makes do with it under the boot + motor.

Leaf 40 Kwh, Zoe 40 Kwh all small chassis oh and not to mention the 64 Kwh Hyundai are releasing soon in the Kona, a small car around the size of a Nissan Juke.

How many Kwh are volvo planning again in their SUV ? can't remember.

Still if I had to choose the PHEV V Diesel Outlander I'd have the PHEV any day, as I said the diesel isn't that economical and I presume the Outlander isn't that efficient to begin with so EV range will suffer.