Teachers - State Pension

Heisenburg81

My Aunt was a teacher all her career and retired in 1999.
She wants me to do up a Form 12 for her for 2017.
I have noticed the following;
- No state pension income whatsoever
Are teachers in receipt of a Dept of Education Pension not entitled to the State Pension also?
Is this the case for all State employees?

namenotavailablE

She was probably a Class D employee for PRSI purposes so would not have been entitled to the State Pension on top of her Department pension.

Peregrinus

Heisenburg81 wrote: »

My Aunt was a teacher all her career and retired in 1999.
She wants me to do up a Form 12 for her for 2017.
I have noticed the following;
- No state pension income whatsoever
Are teachers in receipt of a Dept of Education Pension not entitled to the State Pension also?
Is this the case for all State employees?

It used to be the case for a wide range of permanent, established public employees, if not for all. They paid a reduced rate of PRSI, and got a reduced range of benefits, including no age/retirement pension.

Anybody recruited into the public sector now pays standard PRSI and gets standard benefits.

splinter65

Heisenburg81 wrote: »

My Aunt was a teacher all her career and retired in 1999.
She wants me to do up a Form 12 for her for 2017.
I have noticed the following;
- No state pension income whatsoever
Are teachers in receipt of a Dept of Education Pension not entitled to the State Pension also?
Is this the case for all State employees?

Your aunt has a massive pension from the state already. Did you think she would get 2?

Heisenburg81

splinter65 wrote: »

Your aunt has a massive pension from the state already. Did you think she would get 2?

FOFF

Kat1170

Would she not be entitled to a non-contributory pension irregardless of what PRSI class payment she was on. Albeit a means tested one.

Really Interested

Kat1170 wrote: »

Would she not be entitled to a non-contributory pension irregardless of what PRSI class payment she was on. Albeit a means tested one.

Yes and because of her teachers pension it would be calculated at 0.

Really Interested

Heisenburg81 wrote: »

FOFF

Your Aunt had the benifit of lower PRSI for her many years of service. If she was one of the new entrants who had paid full PRSI and got both the State Pension and teachers pension the tax she would pay on state pension would eat into a huge bit.

Kat1170

To tell the truth OP I'd check this out somewhere else, the smell of begrudgery in here is pretty strong

splinter65

Kat1170 wrote: »

To tell the truth OP I'd check this out somewhere else, the smell of begrudgery in here is pretty strong

The OP should simply help his aunt to complete this form
https://www.welfare.ie/en/pdf/spc1.pdf

For a state pension.
They will write back and tell her that she has no entitlement because as a teacher at the time she was employed teachers made a D PRSI contribution which disqualifies you from a state pension.
She can appeal this desicion at no cost to herself and can complain to the ombudsman if she doesn’t like the way in which her application is dealt with.
There’s no begrudgery.
The aunt has a considerable pension from the department of education.
why would she be entitled to 2 state pensions?

Really Interested

Kat1170 wrote: »

To tell the truth OP I'd check this out somewhere else, the smell of begrudgery in here is pretty strong

Where is it begrudery to point out that any person who joined the Public Service pre 1995 wold not have an entitlement to the contributory old age pension, or that any person joining post 1995 would pay higher PRSI but be entitled to both pensions but will pay tax on any such pensions?

namenotavailablE

Kat1170 wrote: »

To tell the truth OP I'd check this out somewhere else, the smell of begrudgery in here is pretty strong

Definitely not begrudgery on the part of myself, Splinter65 or Really Interested- it's a summary of the rules.

These rules can be checked out- here are a few relevant pointers to them:

Document SW14: This sets out the basics of rates of PRSI and the types of employments to which they apply. Note the description regarding class D public servants on the top of page 6 of the document:

"This covers permanent and pensionable employees in the public
service, other than those mentioned in Classes B and C, recruited
before 6 April 1995."

(Classes B and C referred to in the quote apply to civil servants, guards and Defence force members recruited pre-6 April 1995. A teacher is not a civil servant- s/he is a public servant, so falls under Class D if recruited pre-6 April 1995).

Summary of PRSI entitlements: This is taken from www.welfare.ie. You'll see that a class D employee is not entitled to the contributory state pension. If a widow, s/he is entitled to the Widow/ widower's contributory state pension.
This page indicates that the non-contributory pension is only available if you DON'T qualify for the contributory pension. However, as Really Interested pointed out (and as noted on the linked page), the non-contributory pension is means tested so the OP's aunt would be unlikely to qualify for it.

Value Investor

You do not state what class of Teacher. In April 1974 Secondary School Teachers were put on the full stamp.
Thus it is possible for a Teacher if conditions are satisfied to have two pensions.

Heisenburg81

Value Investor wrote: »

You do not state what class of Teacher. In April 1974 Secondary School Teachers were put on the full stamp.
Thus it is possible for a Teacher if conditions are satisfied to have two pensions.

She was a Primary Teacher

Squatter

Value Investor wrote: »

In April 1974 Secondary School Teachers were put on the full stamp.

Thus it is possible for a Teacher if conditions are satisfied to have two pensions.

No they weren't! My missus (who has been a SST since 1982) has paid Class D PRSI throughout her career.

It is correct to say that all teachers employed since 1995 are Class A PRSI contributors, so will be entitled to the both the State Contrib and the Department's Superannuation Scheme for Secondary Teachers.

Squatter

Heisenburg81 wrote: »

She was a Primary Teacher

So, if she was employed as an NT before 1995, she would have paid the reduced PRSI contribution (Class D) which does not entitle her to the State Contributory Old Age pension.

To be doubly sure. get a copy of her latest P60 (before she retired) and check the PRSI rate which is shown on the bottom.

Addle

It shouldn't shock me anymore when the people we entrust the education of our children when can't grasp what they're paying into with regards to taxes and pensions.

splinter65

Addle wrote: »

It shouldn't shock me anymore when the people we entrust the education of our children when can't grasp what they're paying into with regards to taxes and pensions.

The elderly retired teacher herself isnt querying her entitlements (or lack of them), her family member is. In this thread I don’t see any confusion on behalf of teachers on their pension entitlements.
Can you point me towards where you see it?

barneystinson

Addle wrote: »

It shouldn't shock me anymore when the people we entrust the education of our children when can't grasp what they're paying into with regards to taxes and pensions.

When when what now...?

Heisenburg81

Addle wrote: »

It shouldn't shock me anymore when the people we entrust the education of our children when can't grasp what they're paying into with regards to taxes and pensions.

You seem a bit addled?

Addle

splinter65 wrote: »

The elderly retired teacher herself isnt querying her entitlements (or lack of them), her family member is. In this thread I don’t see any confusion on behalf of teachers on their pension entitlements.
Can you point me towards where you see it?

Can her family member not ask her?
If he's completing a tax return for her, discussion must've been had about her income/entitlements.

splinter65

Addle wrote: »

Can her family member not ask her?
If he's completing a tax return for her, discussion must've been had about her income/entitlements.

You need to go back and read the OP because you’ve missed the whole point.
The OP is doing a tax return for his Aunt.
He sees she has no state pension. He’s here wondering why.
Nowhere in this thread is it suggested that she or any other teacher doesn’t know what their entitlements are.
He is not enquiring on her behalf. He is just satisfying his own curiosity.