Alive, but legally dead

GM228

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

In relation to the above (briefly mentioned in the Freeman thread), I thought I'd start a hypothetical discussion on the topic if such happened (if possible) here.

The same thing also happened to Donald Miller in 2013 in an Ohio court.

In both cases it would appear that legally there is no remedy to undeclare someone being dead and reverse a death cert despite them obviously being alive.

The question is is it possible for the same situation to potentially happen here (this area is beyond my usual area of knowledge) or is there provision which allows for a reversal in Ireland of someone declared dead in absentia?

If such can be reversed here than my query goes no further, but, if the same could occur here lets keep going and discuss this hypothetical situation and the difficulties which can arise across a broad range of issues, especially with the judiciary, for example how could you legally detain a "dead" person, charge them and impose penalty for said charge? How could they claim benefits or work or get travel entitlements etc.

Mr. Incognito

Another case of stupid civil servants doing stupid civil servant things.

I doubt very much it was a court.

Classic Computer says no- of course the media will jump on it and the idiot civil service will have to reverse the decision.

Sooner we privitise state services and get rid of these clowns the better.

jaxxx

Natural world:
a) You were attacked by a predator and killed. RIP you're dead!
b) You were attacked by a predator and survived. You're alive!

Human world:
a) You're dead. No heartbeat. No pulse. Head detached from body. Body thrown into a vat of molten lava. You're dead. Obviously.
b) You're still dead despite the fact that you're standing in front of us right now living, breathing and other genral things that beings do when they're alive but because of 'reasons' you're actually dead despite the fact that it's crystal clear that you're actually alive but you're actually dead. Sorry. As I said, 'reasons'. Give my condolences to your family!

minikin

Happy days... can they charge a dead man income tax??

lifeandtimes

I suppose it would fall in the same category of if someone had been brought up feral,secluded from society or even a foreign national with no English etc and they were found to commit a crime they would of course be arrested and charged

"Person has give then name of so and so, of no fixed abode is charged with (insert crime).

If they had been declared dead then all social are notified and I'm sure cease their ppsn etc.

Wouldn't be too hard to apply for a new one of imagine.

But easy solution is for a judge to over turn the coroner decision of declaration of death

Fred Swanson

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lifeandtimes

Fred Swanson wrote: »

They never cease your PPSN. You would still have the same one after you are legally resurrected.

Well in that case there would be a work around for sure

hullaballoo

I understand that his difficulty is being unable to collect social welfare.

Since he is deceased, collecting social welfare on behalf of a deceased person is fraud against the exchequer, even if he is the person who is deceased, so basically he should be thrown in jail for as long as the statutes permit.

GM228

hullaballoo wrote: »

I understand that his difficulty is being unable to collect social welfare.

Since he is deceased, collecting social welfare on behalf of a deceased person is fraud against the exchequer, even if he is the person who is deceased, so basically he should be thrown in jail for as long as the statutes permit.

How do we incarcerate the (officially) dead?

GM228

lifeandtimes wrote: »

I suppose it would fall in the same category of if someone had been brought up feral,secluded from society or even a foreign national with no English etc and they were found to commit a crime they would of course be arrested and charged

"Person has give then name of so and so, of no fixed abode is charged with (insert crime).

If they had been declared dead then all social are notified and I'm sure cease their ppsn etc.

Wouldn't be too hard to apply for a new one of imagine.

But easy solution is for a judge to over turn the coroner decision of declaration of death

The difference though is (assuming a similar situation can actually happen here) that unlike John Do the accused is officially deceased in the eyes of the law.

uck51js9zml2yt

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Another case of stupid civil servants doing stupid civil servant things.

I doubt very much it was a court.

Classic Computer says no- of course the media will jump on it and the idiot civil service will have to reverse the decision.

Sooner we privitise state services and get rid of these clowns the better.

Absolutely agree, army, police, navy, air force,prison service...get rid of them and give it to Group 4Security.

An Ri rua

GM228 wrote:

How do we incarcerate the (officially) dead?

You've never heard of Deadtor's Prison??

4ensic15

lifeandtimes wrote: »

I suppose it would fall in the same category of if someone had been brought up feral,secluded from society or even a foreign national with no English etc and they were found to commit a crime they would of course be arrested and charged

"Person has give then name of so and so, of no fixed abode is charged with (insert crime).

If they had been declared dead then all social are notified and I'm sure cease their ppsn etc.

Wouldn't be too hard to apply for a new one of imagine.

But easy solution is for a judge to over turn the coroner decision of declaration of death

The coroner didn't declare death in the first place. Undocumented aliens are frequently arrested and charged.

brian_t

Could a wife apply for a widow's pension.

Fred Swanson

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dr.fuzzenstein

He should start robbing banks.

Victor

Would add a different angle to habeas corpus and bringing the body of the accused before the court.

BattleCorp

GM228 wrote: »

How do we incarcerate the (officially) dead?

I'm guessing in a coffin.

Fred Swanson

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Claw Hammer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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They do, since the scam of getting a passport using the name of a dead person was revealed in the Day of the Jackal. A PPS card is now need to get a passport so there is litlle chance of obtaining one if you are dead.

Fred Swanson

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Carawaystick

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They do, since the scam of getting a passport using the name of a dead person was revealed in the Day of the Jackal. A PPS card is now need to get a passport so there is litlle chance of obtaining one if you are dead.

does a psc have an expiry date?
Adult Irish citizens outside the state don't need a psc

Wouldn't data protection rules mean the state needs to correct their incorrect datum?

Fred Swanson

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