Timing of Leaf Purchase

psmith188

Hi folks, long time lurker about to go EV, in current possession of 04 Civic which is about to shuffle off its mortal coil.
Having researched this forum to death, I'm swaying towards a Tekna/30kWh/6.6 and have a budget of 22. There are a few examples in NI and UK within budget for example on usedcarsni.com motors etc
My question is twofold; Am I a bit premature to jump now, i.e. hold out a few months until a few more Leafs (of different colours rather than white) hit the second hand market?? and is scrappage generally available on 2016/17 Leafs.....Thanks in advance

Soarer

Scrappage isn't available on secondhand anyway afaik. You might get scrappage on an Ioniq.

As for premature, nobody knows. It'll all depend on what you want.
If you just want a Tekna 30/6.6, then buy when you're ready.
If you want a particular colour, mileage, etc., wait until it comes around.
It's a lot of money, so don't have regrets.

KCross

psmith188 wrote: »

I'm swaying towards a Tekna/30kWh/6.6 and have a budget of 22. There are a few examples in NI and UK within budget for example on usedcarsni.com motors etc

Thats too much to pay or is that just the max you have to spend?

A new 40kWh will start at €26k so thats outside your budget.

You should be getting a 30kWh for around the £14k mark... probably a bit more for a 6.6kW version.


Are you sure the 30kWh range is sufficient?
Its not premature to jump now IF you get it at the right price and the car covers your needs. Waiting for the next best thing is a never ending game. All you need is a car that covers your needs not the best car available.

Shefwedfan

psmith188 wrote: »

Hi folks, long time lurker about to go EV, in current possession of 04 Civic which is about to shuffle off its mortal coil.
Having researched this forum to death, I'm swaying towards a Tekna/30kWh/6.6 and have a budget of 22. There are a few examples in NI and UK within budget for example on usedcarsni.com motors etc
My question is twofold; Am I a bit premature to jump now, i.e. hold out a few months until a few more Leafs (of different colours rather than white) hit the second hand market?? and is scrappage generally available on 2016/17 Leafs.....Thanks in advance

Might be better to give an idea of what you need car for? will it be your only car? commute to work? etc etc.....

Calahonda52

KCross wrote: »

....
You should be getting a 30kWh for around the £14k mark... probably a bit more for a 6.6kW version.

So that means my first year depreciation is 13,000, or 50 cents a km:eek:

Fann Linn

Calahonda52 wrote: »

So that means my first year depreciation is 13,000, or 50 cents a km:eek:

There are 2014 24kwh Teknas on autotrader for less than £8k.

unkel

Calahonda52 wrote: »

So that means my first year depreciation is 13,000, or 50 cents a km:eek:

You paid almost €30k for a 2017 Leaf?

KCross

Calahonda52 wrote: »

So that means my first year depreciation is 13,000, or 50 cents a km:eek:

I was referring to £, not €

Fann Linn wrote: »

There are 2014 24kwh Teknas on autotrader for less than £8k.

The post was referring to the 30kWh which is from 161+
You also need to watch the really cheap Leaf's on auto trader... they are usually battery lease so £8k is probably not their true cost at all.

Fann Linn

KCross wrote: »

I was referring to £, not €



The post was referring to the 30kWh which is from 161+
You also need to watch the really cheap Leaf's on auto trader... they are usually battery lease so £8k is probably not their true cost at all.

I just had a quick google earlier when I saw your initial post and the two cars that did show up were not battery lease. If you're prepared to search I'm sure you'll get a very good spec for less than €22k.

creedp

KCross wrote: »

I was referring to £, not €



The post was referring to the 30kWh which is from 161+
You also need to watch the really cheap Leaf's on auto trader... they are usually battery lease so £8k is probably not their true cost at all.

Looking around at UK cars you can get 2016 30kwh Acentas and Technas with 3.3kw chargers for between £13k and £14k but most of the 6.6kw version of the car with acenta spec only seem to be north of £15k. I'd like a 6.6kw version but think the premium sought is very high to the point of not justifiable.

In addition I have a heat pump in the house which I think draws between13amps and 16amps (going to confirm with installer). So if the 6.6kw car was charging at 32amps there could be a total of 48amps being drawn together which might be problematic - although I freely admit I know nothing about electricity!

Might be safer operating with the 3.3kw and leave it charge overnight.

KCross

creedp wrote: »

In addition I have a heat pump in the house which I think draws between13amps and 16amps (going to confirm with installer). So if the 6.6kw car was charging at 32amps there could be a total of 48amps being drawn together which might be problematic - although I freely admit I know nothing about electricity!

Might be safer operating with the 3.3kw and leave it charge overnight.

You’ve confused the heat pump bit.

The car heat pump is used when heating the car. It’s not part of the charging process so don’t worry about amps being drawn.

In addition the heat pump makes heating the car more efficient, not less efficient. It’s a good thing, not bad. All the 30kWh Leafs will have one unless it’s the Visia spec.

creedp

KCross wrote: »

You’ve confused the heat pump bit.

The car heat pump is used when heating the car. It’s not part of the charging process so don’t worry about amps being drawn.

In addition the heat pump makes heating the car more efficient, not less efficient. It’s a good thing, not bad. All the 30kWh Leafs will have one unless it’s the Visia spec.

What I am trying to say that I have a heat pump in my house for heating in winter and hot water all year around. It mostly operates at night so would be operating at same time as the car charger. The combined draw of the 6.6kw car charger (32amp) and domestic heat pump (could be 20amps or more TBC by installer) could cause problems

Calahonda52

creedp wrote: »

What I am trying to say that I have a heat pump in my house for heating in winter and hot water all year around. It mostly operates at night so would be operating at same time as the car charger. The combined draw of the 6.6kw car charger (32amp) and domestic heat pump (could be 20amps or more TBC by installer) could cause problems

KC misread your post

Three home charging options
1: Granny cable: 13amp plug, draws about 10A
2: Basic home charger kit from esb: draws 16A
3: Upgraded home charger kit, not from/by ESB: draws 32A

2&3 need to be back to the board or similar

The car, with a 6.6, will only draw what is available.

You can also use the timer on the car to time shift the charging, so if you had the 6.6 with a 32A charger you could sneak in a few night rate hours

Calahonda52

unkel wrote: »

You paid almost €30k for a 2017 Leaf?

We already discussed this when I bought it: once is enough to be reminded what a fool I was: thank you.

KCross

creedp wrote: »

What I am trying to say that I have a heat pump in my house for heating in winter and hot water all year around. It mostly operates at night so would be operating at same time as the car charger. The combined draw of the 6.6kw car charger (32amp) and domestic heat pump (could be 20amps or more TBC by installer) could cause problems

Got ya, I was reading it on the phone so skim read it!

Its still not an issue though.
I have a heat pump in the house as well and I have a 32A charge point with a 6.6kW car... it all runs fine.

My heat pump trips out at 22.5A. It runs at about 16A.
The 6.6kW Leaf will pull about 30A so it is within the limits of a standard domestic connection particularly when they are running at night.

I suspect you have the enhanced ESB connection... 16kVA vs 12kVA? Do you remember filling in the ESB form when you built the house?
If you have the 16kVA connection you can run your board to 70A as the ESB fuse is 80A (vs 60A for a 12kVA connection).

Now, if you have an electric shower that changes things... you'd need a priority switch then... but I doubt you have, since you have a heat pump heating hot water.

creedp

KCross wrote: »

Got ya, I was reading it on the phone so skim read it!

Its still not an issue though.
I have a heat pump in the house as well and I have a 32A charge point with a 6.6kW car... it all runs fine.

My heat pump trips out at 22.5A. It runs at about 16A.
The 6.6kW Leaf will pull about 30A so it is within the limits of a standard domestic connection particularly when they are running at night.

I suspect you have the enhanced ESB connection... 16kVA vs 12kVA? Do you remember filling in the ESB form when you built the house?
If you have the 16kVA connection you can run your board to 70A as the ESB fuse is 80A (vs 60A for a 12kVA connection).

Now, if you have an electric shower that changes things... you'd need a priority switch then... but I doubt you have, since you have a heat pump heating hot water.

No problem I do tend to confuse/complicate things!!

I can't remember what ESB connection we got as had such hassle during the build that I erased a lot of the memories to avoid recurring nightmares continuing indefinitely!! I'll check this out.

My HP has a 12.2kw output with a 4.3 cop so presumably it draws approx. 2.8kw which is actually only about 13amp - lower than I expected. However, I don't know what its maximum draw is on start up - have sent a query to supplier.

I have no power showers but do run dishwasher/washing machine at night - this practice could of course could be changed.

I was hoping to attach the charging unit to the garage wall but looking at distribution board in the house it appear I may only have a 32amp supply going to garage and as the water pump/ water pressure pump / septic tank aerator all run from garage I would currently only be able to run a 16amp charger from the garage sub distribution board.

If the current cable to the garage was 6mm2 or higher presumably an appropriate RCBO could be installed at the distribution board to take the extra load of the car charger. However, as I have no knowledge of all things electrical I will have to get an electrician to look at the setup to know what can be done without having to undertake work. I would really prefer not to have to run a new cable from the house distribution board at this stage as it would involve too much work and I would still not be able to locate the charger in/at the garage - garage is detached so would involve chasing footpaths & drive.

Deciding on whether to pay a premium for 6.6kw over 3.3kw charger is not straightforward!

creedp

Has anyone successfully applied for this grant?

https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/

Is it possible to supply the charge and ancillaries yourself and simply get the electrician to install? Is there any restriction on where you purchase the charger?

KCross

creedp wrote: »

No problem I do tend to confuse/complicate things!!

I can't remember what ESB connection we got as had such hassle during the build that I erased a lot of the memories to avoid recurring nightmares continuing indefinitely!! I'll check this out.

I'd be surprised if you dont have a 16kVA connection as its specifically called out on the ESB form to get a 16kVA connection if you have a heat pump.

creedp wrote: »

My HP has a 12.2kw output with a 4.3 cop so presumably it draws approx. 2.8kw which is actually only about 13amp - lower than I expected. However, I don't know what its maximum draw is on start up - have sent a query to supplier.

Much the same here, 12kW HP. I doubt your HP draws only 13A. I'd say it will be much the same as mine at ~16A. Starting current is higher but thats just for a second.

creedp wrote: »

I have no power showers but do run dishwasher/washing machine at night - this practice could of course could be changed.

No need. Once you confirm that you have a 16kVA connection you have plenty headroom to run the 6.6kW car, HP and appliances at the same time. I do, every night.

creedp wrote: »

I was hoping to attach the charging unit to the garage wall but looking at distribution board in the house it appear I may only have a 32amp supply going to garage and as the water pump/ water pressure pump / septic tank aerator all run from garage I would currently only be able to run a 16amp charger from the garage sub distribution board.

If the current cable to the garage was 6mm2 or higher presumably an appropriate RCBO could be installed at the distribution board to take the extra load of the car charger. However, as I have no knowledge of all things electrical I will have to get an electrician to look at the setup to know what can be done without having to undertake work. I would really prefer not to have to run a new cable from the house distribution board at this stage as it would involve too much work and I would still not be able to locate the charger in/at the garage - garage is detached so would involve chasing footpaths & drive.

Would running a new cable be that bad/hard? Presumably you have a duct so just pull another cable?

10mm2 cable is what you would need to cover the 32A charge point and your water pump etc.

6mm2 would be the bare minimum for the car charger on its own. Adding in the other items would likely be too much for that cable.

creedp

Thanks for all that KCross.

I'll have to get an electrician to have a look and see what is required. I would think though that pulling a cable from distribution board in house (nestled right in the middle of the house for some unknown reason - I really wish I had paid more attention to detail during the build!) out to garage would be really problematic as would require pulling up flooring, chasing walls, footpaths, tarmacadam drive, etc (the attic is also developed). I don't think I would [be given permission to] proceed if that is required!!

I could attach to wall outside house but that would involve blocking the drive while charging. Possibly not too big a deal but a pain all the same