Money handed into Gardai....

Harryhumanity

Anyone know the process a Garda should adhere to when money is handed in?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Harryhumanity

Thought so...what do you think of this;

ATM in a shop, person removes money... forgot to take it. Next person is honest and trys to catch person to give money..misses the person. They then explain to shop manager, who says he'll hand it into Gardai station in the area and does do.
The person who forgot the money, returned about an hour later...shop manager explains he handed to Garda.

Person goes to Garda station, explained the story.
Guy behind the counter says no money handed in at all today, he's been on duty all day.
Person explains, he'll bring the shop guy to station to make a statement regarding money.
Garda then says hold on, their was another Garda here.
Goes away for a few minutes and returns...said another Garda has it in his pocket by accident and gone home....
Person gets money back day after.

lifeandtimes

Harryhumanity wrote: »

Thought so...what do you think of this;

ATM in a shop, person removes money... forgot to take it. Next person is honest and trys to catch person to give money..misses the person. They then explain to shop manager, who says he'll hand it into Gardai station in the area and does do.
The person who forgot the money, returned about an hour later...shop manager explains he handed to Garda.

Person goes to Garda station, explained the story.
Guy behind the counter says no money handed in at all today, he's been on duty all day.
Person explains, he'll bring the shop guy to station to make a statement regarding money.
Garda then says hold on, their was another Garda here.
Goes away for a few minutes and returns...said another Garda has it in his pocket by accident and gone home....
Person gets money back day after.

Seems like there may have been a communication issue.

The shop attendee should have received documetation that the they handed a sum of money to the gardai to have for their records. Which after a year an a day isnt colelcted they can legally claim it.

Seeing as the did ask (or received) one this led to the issue experienced above

coylemj

What on earth was the shopkeeper doing handing it over to the Gardai? A classic case of washing your hands of a problem.

Tenigate

Removes the money and forgot to take it?
Did they leave it on a ledge, or did the 2nd person just yank it from the slot in the ATM? if the latter, that was a mistake. The machine would have retrieved the money and credited it back to the bank account.
Anyway. No harm no foul. It got sorted.

lifeandtimes

Tenigate wrote: »

Anyway. No harm no foul. It got sorted.

I think the op is implying that something untoward was happening regarding the garda and the money in his pocket without any evidence it was handed in

Tenigate

lifeandtimes wrote: »

I think the op is implying that something untoward was happening regarding the garda and the money in his pocket without any evidence it was handed in

He probably breached an internal procedure. Most places that receive cash are obliged to issue receipts.

jimmycrackcorm

Tenigate wrote:

Removes the money and forgot to take it? Did they leave it on a ledge, or did the 2nd person just yank it from the slot in the ATM? if the latter, that was a mistake. The machine would have retrieved the money and credited it back to the bank account. Anyway. No harm no foul. It got sorted.

Eh? A garda received the money, didn't log it or give a receipt and took it home in his pocket.

Nothing even potentially unethical about that then.

Tenigate

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Nothing even potentially unethical about that then.

Well if it's considered theft, obviously it's illegal. But (in my best legalese) they'd need to prove the intention was to steal the cash rather than just not following a procedure and then getting distracted.

omega666

Tenigate wrote: »

He probably breached an internal procedure. Most places that receive cash are obliged to issue receipts.

I'd say more than a breach of procedures if it found it's way into his pocket.
How does one accidently put cash in their pocket instead of going and storing it in the proper place in the station...

lifeandtimes

omega666 wrote: »

How does one accidently put cash in their pocket instead of going and storing it in the proper place in the station...

To be fair its a common thing to automatically put cash in your pocket, the thing is i doubt he didnt know he had it on him by the time he got home and really should have phoned the station to let them know hed bring it back tomorrow in case anyone was looking for it

Tenigate

Fairly easily I'd imagine, especially in a smaller station close to the shop. He might have figured the person would realise they left their cash behind, go straight back to the shop and be in the station in the space of an hour.

joeguevara

Tenigate wrote: »

Removes the money and forgot to take it?
Did they leave it on a ledge, or did the 2nd person just yank it from the slot in the ATM? if the latter, that was a mistake. The machine would have retrieved the money and credited it back to the bank account.
Anyway. No harm no foul. It got sorted.

I don't think the money would be credited back to the account. There would be a surplus in the atm machine and the person would have to request that it would be credited back. Nothing automatic about it and more often than not, the person never gets money back.

Ghekko

Ds found money once - I brought him to the local Garda station with it. They told me to keep it in an envelope for a year and a day, took my details and said if nobody claimed it Ds could keep it. Grant it, it wasn't a large sum but I'd say they couldn't be bothered with the paperwork. A year and a day later Ds was delighted to pocket it.

I found money in a shopping centre last year, gave my details to customer service desk, and haven't heard anything since. I've long since spent it.

Ghekko

joeguevara wrote: »

I don't think the money would be credited back to the account. There would be a surplus in the atm machine and the person would have to request that it would be credited back. Nothing automatic about it and more often than not, the person never gets money back.

I used to fill the ATMs at work. If there was surplus cash in the drawer we had to go through the transaction roll to see where the error occurred and credit back the account. That was over 10 years ago - not sure of the procedure now.

lifeandtimes

Ghekko wrote: »

I used to fill the ATMs at work. If there was surplus cash in the drawer we had to go through the transaction roll to see where the error occurred and credit back the account. That was over 10 years ago - not sure of the procedure now.

You can call your bank, give them the details of the atm where and when etc and they will note the surplus and credit your bank account, my mrs had to do it because there was an error with an atm that didnt dispense money but debited her bank account

Lmklad

OP if a person finds money they are legally obliged to hand to over to Gardai. The Garda will create an incident on pulse and issue a cash receipt with the pulse incident number. The person will then be contacted at a future date if the money is unclaimed.

The Garda receiving the money is obliged to place the money in the station cash safe, not keep it in their pocket.

The shop assistant may make a complaint to the station, either a sergeant or higher rank if they believe something untoward has occurred.

coylemj

Lmklad wrote: »

OP if a person finds money they are legally obliged to hand to over to Gardai.

They are not, they are obliged to take 'reasonable steps' to reunite the property with the owner.

If I found money in a shop, I'd put a notice in the window and if nobody claimed it within two weeks, I'd keep it. I'd have no truck with that 'year and a day' mullarkey.

Mod
Boards.ie do not agree with this suggestion.
Lost money should be left into AGS station

Tenigate

Lmklad wrote: »

OP if a person finds money they are legally obliged to hand to over to Gardai. The Garda will create an incident on pulse and issue a cash receipt with the pulse incident number.

Let's examine how dopey this is.

I find 1 cent.

I could have stepped over it (and bad luck I'd have all the day)

Given my legal obligation, I pick it up and hand it over to the gardai.

They now - apparently - create an "incident" .. on pulse?

I'm done.

Clickbait

Would love to know in a situation like this. Would an ATM take the money back if it wasn't taken? If I ever found money sitting in an ATM, how long do I wait until the ATM takes it back.

Tenigate

Clickbait wrote: »

Would love to know in a situation like this. Would an ATM take the money back if it wasn't taken? If I ever found money sitting in an ATM, how long do I wait until the ATM takes it back.

It beeps for.. hmm.. Maybe a minute. Then gobbles the cash.
The atm operator keeps a rec of cash bals and botched transactions, but mainly if your money is swallowed you need to file a report with, I'm assuming your bank, but possibly the atm operator.

Anyway, when all the checks and balances are done you'll be refunded directly to your bank account.

I'm aware of this process due to the case of a Garda who probably lost his job since. He'd request cash. When it was dispensed, he'd slide out the notes in the middle of the bundle. The atm would gobble the remaining notes and presumably note that the cash wasn't taken. He'd then file a claim for the full withdrawal amount. He did this a few times. Unfortunately for him, the banks were wise to the scam and launched an investigation so he didn't get away with it.

Fann Linn

Harryhumanity wrote: »

Thought so...what do you think of this;

ATM in a shop, person removes money... forgot to take it. Next person is honest and trys to catch person to give money..misses the person. They then explain to shop manager, who says he'll hand it into Gardai station in the area and does do.
The person who forgot the money, returned about an hour later...shop manager explains he handed to Garda.

Person goes to Garda station, explained the story.
Guy behind the counter says no money handed in at all today, he's been on duty all day.
Person explains, he'll bring the shop guy to station to make a statement regarding money.
Garda then says hold on, their was another Garda here.
Goes away for a few minutes and returns...said another Garda has it in his pocket by accident and gone home....
Person gets money back day after.

Money has never gone missing before from any Garda station in this State and the Gardai, with a reputation beyond reproach for due diligence, honesty and integrity would surely return any money handed in, even that money which was sitting in his shirt pocket when he got home after a hard shift.

A genuine mistake.
Just ask Maurice Mc Cabe, John Wilson....

joeguevara

Lmklad wrote: »

OP if a person finds money they are legally obliged to hand to over to Gardai. The Garda will create an incident on pulse and issue a cash receipt with the pulse incident number. The person will then be contacted at a future date if the money is unclaimed.

The Garda receiving the money is obliged to place the money in the station cash safe, not keep it in their pocket.

The shop assistant may make a complaint to the station, either a sergeant or higher rank if they believe something untoward has occurred.

There is no legislation that says that. A lot of people are relying on that famous central criminal court case of finders keepers versus losers weepers.

TopTec

Tenigate wrote: »

But (in my best legalese) they'd need to prove the intention was to steal the cash rather than just not following a procedure and then getting distracted.

The actions or non-actions of the Garda in pocketing the money, failing to adhere to Garda policy, and taking it home go a long way in proving an intention to steal in this case.

TT

Rushden

I highly doubt every guard has a key to the station safe , if it was a month later and it wasn't stored somewhere it might be an issue, but not the same day

twowheelsonly

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Eh? A garda received the money, didn't log it or give a receipt and took it home in his pocket.

Nothing even potentially unethical about that then.

OP says that the shop gave it into the local station but did they do that or give it to a Garda that happened to come into the shop ? The reason I ask that is because the customer returned within the hour and in that timeframe the shop had already dropped the money to the station ? It just seems to me that it's more like something they'd leave to the end of the day and wouldn't be rushing to do so. (unless the station was next door to them..)

Depending on how, when or where the money was handed in I wouldn't find it that unusual that it ended up in someones pocket. Could have been handed in at the door if the shop attendee just met the guard on the way in or if it was at the counter another Garda could have been relieving the duty fella for lunch and not had a key for the safe.
I certainly wouldn't be having a 'Trial By Boards' without knowing all the details.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

They are not, they are obliged to take 'reasonable steps' to reunite the property with the owner.

If I found money in a shop, I'd put a notice in the window and if nobody claimed it within two weeks, I'd keep it. I'd have no truck with that 'year and a day' mullarkey.

Mod
Boards.ie do not agree with this suggestion.
Lost money should be left into AGS station

Any amount? Would boards.ie like to suggest a threshold of value below which it would not be reasonable to do so?

What about if I find a pay packet - an envelope with money in it - and my neighbour's name is on it, should I knock on his door and hand it over or take it to the Garda station?

lifeandtimes

coylemj wrote: »

Any amount? Would boards.ie like to suggest a threshold of value below which it would not be reasonable to do so?

What about if I find a pay packet - an envelope with money in it - and my neighbour's name is on it, should I knock on his door and hand it over or take it to the Garda station?

Good point and that falls under the reasonable steps but if you find an envelope with your neighbour's name on it how are you to be sure it's actually his money And not another person with their name?

coylemj

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Good point and that falls under the reasonable steps but if you find an envelope with your neighbour's name on it how are you to be sure it's actually his money And not another person with their name?

Ok, make it his wallet which contains a lot of cash and his driving licence. The point being that you don't simply have to follow some rigid rule about taking it to the local cop shop.

lifeandtimes

coylemj wrote: »

Ok, make it his wallet which contains a lot of cash and his driving licence. The point being that you don't simply have to follow some rigid rule about taking it to the local cop shop.

You misunderstand my argument

You find an envelope with your neighbour's name on it and a sum of cash but a number of people in your road have that name .

Do you
A. Knock in and ask is it theres?
B. Bring it too the guard's?

maxsmum

Ghekko wrote: »

Ds found money once - I brought him to the local Garda station with it. They told me to keep it in an envelope for a year and a day, took my details and said if nobody claimed it Ds could keep it. Grant it, it wasn't a large sum but I'd say they couldn't be bothered with the paperwork. A year and a day later Ds was delighted to pocket it.

I found money in a shopping centre last year, gave my details to customer service desk, and haven't heard anything since. I've long since spent it.

What is Ds?!

coylemj

lifeandtimes wrote: »

You misunderstand my argument

You find an envelope with your neighbour's name on it and a sum of cash but a number of people in your road have that name .

Do you
A. Knock in and ask is it theres?
B. Bring it too the guard's?

I understood your 'argument' perfectly well but I would respectfully submit that the chances of having two neighbours with the same name and who are both paid via cash payroll in little envelopes are (in this day and age) pretty remote.

Peregrinus

coylemj wrote: »

I understood your 'argument' perfectly well but I would respectfully submit that the chances of having two neighbours with the same name and who are both paid via cash payroll in little envelopes are (in this day and age) pretty remote.

And, if you do find yourself in that unlikely circumstance, you can ask them both if they have lost an envelope full of money. The likelihood is that only one of them will claim it. If they both claim it, you can look for corroborative detail ("How much was in your envelope?"), or if you prefer not to be playing Solomon you can at that point bring it to the guards, and tell them both that you have done so.

The point here is that your object is to get the money back to its true owner. IN many circumstances bringing it to the guards is the best you can do in that regard. But in some circumstances there are better options.

Green Peter

There are new procedures being implemented at the moment and there are issues with hardware and issuing reciepts in some stations. This may have been the case here. I would be concerned however and think it might be no harm for the person who handed in the money to speak to a sergeant in the station and ask them to look into it or just make them aware of it.

fritzelly

Just leave this here for certain people arguing about some things

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-accused-of-stealing-money-handed-into-station-26360585.html

Peregrinus

Conclusion of the above story.

Harryhumanity

twowheelsonly wrote: »

OP says that the shop gave it into the local station but did they do that or give it to a Garda that happened to come into the shop ? The reason I ask that is because the customer returned within the hour and in that timeframe the shop had already dropped the money to the station ? It just seems to me that it's more like something they'd leave to the end of the day and wouldn't be rushing to do so. (unless the station was next door to them..)

Depending on how, when or where the money was handed in I wouldn't find it that unusual that it ended up in someones pocket. Could have been handed in at the door if the shop attendee just met the guard on the way in or if it was at the counter another Garda could have been relieving the duty fella for lunch and not had a key for the safe.
I certainly wouldn't be having a 'Trial By Boards' without knowing all the details.

Station was very close.

coylemj

The problem as I see it with leaving cash into the Garda station is that in a lot of stations, there appears to be relatively unrestricted access to lost property by every member of the station party. That means that its virtually impossible to trace money that goes missing. Garda goes to the store to retrieve a camera or handbag that is being claimed by someone and hey ho! - look at that envelope bulging with cash that someone handed in last week on the next shelf.

Ghekko

maxsmum wrote: »

What is Ds?!

'Dear Son' - forum speak