Written examiner for JC/LC

drdavies

Just wanted to ask, do you have to be fully graduated to mark JC/LC state examinations?
I'm in my third year of a science undergrad course in a Dublin University and I've heard of college students marking these exams in the summer, attending conferences etc.
The subjects I have experience in are Religion(JC), French (JC+LC), Biology (LC), Science (JC), CSPE (JC), Chemistry (LC), Economics (LC), Home Ec(JC). Got As in these in JC and LC and I also give grinds in these. Would I be eligible to mark these papers? I've been told by many that SEC are desperate for written examiners.

SligoBrewer

https://www.examinations.ie/misc-doc/BI-RE-30036971.pdf

You need a Teaching Council Number

Powerhouse

drdavies wrote: »

Just wanted to ask, do you have to be fully graduated to mark JC/LC state examinations?
I'm in my third year of a science undergrad course in a Dublin University and I've heard of college students marking these exams in the summer, attending conferences etc.
The subjects I have experience in are Religion(JC), French (JC+LC), Biology (LC), Science (JC), CSPE (JC), Chemistry (LC), Economics (LC), Home Ec(JC). Got As in these in JC and LC and I also give grinds in these. Would I be eligible to mark these papers? I've been told by many that SEC are desperate for written examiners.

Without wishing to appear too curt in replying, if anyone who had even taken a subject to Junior Cert level could mark state examinations there would be nobody saying (whether it's true or not) that the SEC was desperate for written examiners. They'd be inundated. There must be a bit more to it I'd say.

rainbowtrout

drdavies wrote: »

Just wanted to ask, do you have to be fully graduated to mark JC/LC state examinations?
I'm in my third year of a science undergrad course in a Dublin University and I've heard of college students marking these exams in the summer, attending conferences etc.
The subjects I have experience in are Religion(JC), French (JC+LC), Biology (LC), Science (JC), CSPE (JC), Chemistry (LC), Economics (LC), Home Ec(JC). Got As in these in JC and LC and I also give grinds in these. Would I be eligible to mark these papers? I've been told by many that SEC are desperate for written examiners.

Not that desperate. :rolleyes:

cestmoi2

Apologies for commenting here but when are we informed if we'll be correcting this year? Applied in Jan.

RealJohn

drdavies wrote: »

I've been told by many that SEC are desperate for written examiners.

That’s because the examiners have to be qualified.
I believe that if you had a degree in a suitable discipline, you might be qualified. I don’t think that you necessarily have to be qualified as a teacher. I know they sometimes accept people doing the PME.

As things stand though, you’re not qualified in anything (that you’ve disclosed) so no, you cannot mark exams for the SEC.

spurious

cestmoi2 wrote: »

Apologies for commenting here but when are we informed if we'll be correcting this year? Applied in Jan.

Last year I got the letter just before St. Patrick's Day, but I had corrected before and it probably varies for subject and exam.

theoldbreed

drdavies wrote: »

Just wanted to ask, do you have to be fully graduated to mark JC/LC state examinations?
I'm in my third year of a science undergrad course in a Dublin University and I've heard of college students marking these exams in the summer, attending conferences etc.
The subjects I have experience in are Religion(JC), French (JC+LC), Biology (LC), Science (JC), CSPE (JC), Chemistry (LC), Economics (LC), Home Ec(JC). Got As in these in JC and LC and I also give grinds in these. Would I be eligible to mark these papers? I've been told by many that SEC are desperate for written examiners.

With all due respect, as a teacher and as someone who has marked papers for the sec for 9 years, I'd be seriously annoyed at someone who has no qualifications yet marking my students' papers. If anyone with a jc could mark they'd have no problem with recruitment. Whomever told you college students mark these is mistaken. The mocks maybe but not state exams.

MathsManiac

SligoBrewer wrote: »

https://www.examinations.ie/misc-doc/BI-RE-30036971.pdf

You need a Teaching Council Number

That's last year's form.

This year's is one is here: https://www.examinations.ie/recruitment/

And here's their policy on appointment. https://www.examinations.ie/?l=en&mc=re&sc=poa. If you look at the "Qualifications" bit, it seems to me that if they are sufficiently desperate, they will take you if you haven't finished your teaching qualification but only if you have the subject qualification. So in your case, that seems like a 'no'.

SligoBrewer

More should be made of the fact that people who will be correcting papers aren't actual teachers.

maynooth_rules

SligoBrewer wrote: »

More should be made of the fact that people who will be correcting papers aren't actual teachers.

Indeed. I know if I had a child sitting the LC and their paper was corrected by someone who wasn't a fully qualified teacher in that subject, I would be fuming.

mtoutlemonde

SligoBrewer wrote: »

More should be made of the fact that people who will be correcting papers aren't actual teachers.

I've said it before, it will soon be written into our contracts that we will have to supervise and examine during the summer.

I think it's terrible that people (even those finishing education courses) are hired to correct for the SEC. It will soon be like the mock companies who employ anyone to correct.

Postgrad10

Do they hire just anyone to correct mocks though? I find that hard to believe.

Mardy Bum

SEC hire PME students. They also hire people with just subject degrees. Especially in Irish.

mtoutlemonde

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Do they hire just anyone to correct mocks though? I find that hard to believe.

Not sure but with the quality of marking is not always good. The correctors could also be qualified but lack correcting experience.

Postgrad10

Mardy Bum wrote: »

SEC hire PME students. They also hire people with just subject degrees. Especially in Irish.

They still have to be trained and supervised by the SEC like the qualified teachers though so at least that's something.

doc_17

Received a text from SEC this week as I didn’t return the form. Appears they are really struggling this year to recruit some Super Nintendo Chambers

BonCourage

Anyone hear back yet? I believe they go by subject. Have corrected Irish before and Music through Irish also - not sure which I'd prefer - Hope they don't give me CSPE/OSSP ...

Would rather find out soon so I could make plans.

mtoutlemonde

BonCourage wrote: »

Anyone hear back yet? I believe they go by subject. Have corrected Irish before and Music through Irish also - not sure which I'd prefer - Hope they don't give me CSPE/OSSP ...

Would rather find out soon so I could make plans.

What did you apply for? The SEC are sorting out superintendents at the moment so they will probably do examiners later. Also I presume this is your first year examining in a while because acceptance forms for correcting were submitted before Christmas so it could be possible there may not be vacancies in your subjects. When I started examining, I was only appointed a week before conference.

BonCourage

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

What did you apply for? The SEC are sorting out superintendents at the moment so they will probably do examiners later. Also I presume this is your first year examining in a while because acceptance forms for correcting were submitted before Christmas so it could be possible there may not be vacancies in your subjects. When I started examining, I was only appointed a week before conference.

Yes, gave it a miss last year as I was away! Applied for JC and LC Music and Irish.

mtoutlemonde

BonCourage wrote: »

Yes, gave it a miss last year as I was away! Applied for JC and LC Music and Irish.

Well you won't get CSPE so. I can't see you getting LC either. You have to have JC experience first.

Terri26

mtoutlemonde wrote:

Well you won't get CSPE so. I can't see you getting LC either. You have to have JC experience first.

Unfortunately they are so stuck this isn't the case anymore. At best sometimes even one year experience at JC is being accepted to move straight to HL LC.

spurious

Things are definitely a bit slower this year. Just checked my notes and I had heard by the third week in March the last couple of years.
As always with the SEC, it will all work out OK in the end.

theoldbreed

They are definitely stuck. I've been correcting for years and had to work my way up to LC HL. A colleague of mine didn't even apply and they offered him LC HL and he has never corrected before. He was as shocked as anyone to receive the letter!

Postgrad10

Did his principal pass on his name and address then ? Very strange.

rainbowtrout

theoldbreed wrote: »

They are definitely stuck. I've been correcting for years and had to work my way up to LC HL. A colleague of mine didn't even apply and they offered him LC HL and he has never corrected before. He was as shocked as anyone to receive the letter!

That's extremely odd. How would they have his details?

I also know people who were correcting HL LC in their first year (but they had applied).

Terri26

rainbowtrout wrote:

That's extremely odd. How would they have his details?

I'm assuming 'old breed' means his colleague didn't apply for LC HL. Most of us do it the proper way starting off at JC and moving our way up. They should be contacting ppl who've corrected OL LC and asking them to consider HL.

Postgrad10

But the poster said his friend had never corrected before?

theoldbreed

Postgrad10 wrote: »

But the poster said his friend had never corrected before?

No he hasn't corrected before, he definitely didn't apply. I think the principal gave some names to SEC. He has done superintending before, maybe they have his details from then too....

Postgrad10

That could be it. We put down our qualifications on our superintending app form too.

thefasteriwalk

At my HL LC conference last year there were two (that I met) examiners who were correcting for the first time.

infor123

Terri26 wrote: »

I'm assuming 'old breed' means his colleague didn't apply for LC HL. Most of us do it the proper way starting off at JC and moving our way up. They should be contacting ppl who've corrected OL LC and asking them to consider HL.

Surely that is up to the SEC - stating that “most of us do it the proper way” is a bit unfair. You take what you get. I certainly wouldn’t turn it down!

spurious

Correcting is a very different gig to superintending though.

RealJohn

spurious wrote: »

Correcting is a very different gig to superintending though.

Just on a point of pedantics, since it’s being said over and over by virtually every poster in this thread (and others), it’s not ‘correcting’. ‘Correcting’ is what you do for your own students, which involves marking and giving direct feedback. You don’t ‘correct’ state exams because you are not giving the student any feedback. You’re ‘marking’, as in you’re indicating what marks the student has earned.

You could also say ‘examining’, since your job title is ‘examiner’ (not ‘correcter’) but the process is generally referred to as ‘marking’ by those actually involved in it, particularly by more experienced examiners.

Not aimed at you directly spurious but it’s a bit of a ‘bugbear’ for me.

rainbowtrout

RealJohn wrote: »

Not aimed at you directly spurious but it’s a bit of a ‘bugbear’ for me.

But everyone understands what is meant by correcting so does it really matter?

*Off to do a bit of hoovering:pac:

Seannew1

RealJohn wrote: »

Just on a point of pedantics, since it’s being said over and over by virtually every poster in this thread (and others), it’s not ‘correcting’. ‘Correcting’ is what you do for your own students, which involves marking and giving direct feedback. You don’t ‘correct’ state exams because you are not giving the student any feedback. You’re ‘marking’, as in you’re indicating what marks the student has earned.

You could also say ‘examining’, since your job title is ‘examiner’ (not ‘correcter’) but the process is generally referred to as ‘marking’ by those actually involved in it, particularly by more experienced examiners.

Not aimed at you directly spurious but it’s a bit of a ‘bugbear’ for me.

Very true. I was told by a chief examiner at my first conference that we need to leave our teacher hats at home and put on our assessor hats.

ASISEEIT

Can I ask whats it like correcting the new JC English? Tempted to apply next year.

RealJohn

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Can I ask whats it like correcting the new JC English? Tempted to apply next year.

I can’t tell you anything about marking the new English course but if you’re tempted to become an examiner, I highly recommend it. Personally, I think every teacher should do it at least once and you’re better off getting on board at a time in your life when you’re feeling reasonably enthusiastic about it because it can be a bit of a slog.

Personally, I find it quite rewarding (and while the money isn’t great, it’s not that bad either). Some people have done it and hated it. You could fall into either camp. You’ll never know unless you try it (and marking is not the same as correcting your own students’ work, so how you feel about that is not necessarily an indication of how you’d feel about being an examiner).

infor123

RealJohn wrote: »

I can’t tell you anything about marking the new English course but if you’re tempted to become an examiner, I highly recommend it. Personally, I think every teacher should do it at least once and you’re better off getting on board at a time in your life when you’re feeling reasonably enthusiastic about it because it can be a bit of a slog.

Personally, I find it quite rewarding (and while the money isn’t great, it’s not that bad either). Some people have done it and hated it. You could fall into either camp. You’ll never know unless you try it (and marking is not the same as correcting your own students’ work, so how you feel about that is not necessarily an indication of how you’d feel about being an examiner).

Agree totally wit this. Money is fine. Have something that you want to buy/do with the money and it’ll make it worth while e.g. a holiday or a new kitchen whatever! It is so worth for the experience though. I learned so much about the marking scheme and (hopefully) have passed that on in my teaching.

deiseindublin

infor123 wrote: »

Agree totally wit this. Money is fine. Have something that you want to buy/do with the money and it’ll make it worth while e.g. a holiday or a new kitchen whatever!

Jeez, I think you'd want to be correcting for 20 years to get a new kitchen!

infor123

deiseindublin wrote: »

Jeez, I think you'd want to be correcting for 20 years to get a new kitchen!

Well like I meant do up your kitchen or decorate a bit of the house whatever like. Put down tarmac, whatever. Don’t just use it buy groceries. I corrected last summer and bought my wedding dress with the money so I knew it was worth it.

Postgrad10

I got my pay last year just when my laptop gave up. I know what you mean, it's great back up for the little jobs/emergencies:)

gaiscioch

I got offered LC HL in my subject for the first time. I'm doing it entirely so I can better understand how to get the H1 as I've some really motivated kids each year and my not knowing the marking is a definite weakness on my part. Apparently you have "approx. 26 days from the date of the Conference" to do all the marking. I'm expecting to be crucified with tax/PRD/USC from doing this but I'm not sure how bad my take home pay will be. I've some questions.

1. How long do you have to wait for payment this year? Has there been any improvement there? (the thread here last year or the year before was full of people waiting a long time to be paid)

2. How much more is the extra payment if you correct in Irish?

3. Where is there a list of the pay rates for correcting in 2018? Have they improved at all? (see story below)


Junior and Leaving Cert ‘at risk’ unless examiners' pay increased (5 April 2018)

Postgrad10

1. Depends on your subject and that depends how far along your subject was examined in June. Payment usually come any time from early September-end of October. You will get an advance shortly after your conference depending on your years working with the SEC.

Don't know 2.

3. There's no list of all the rates of the subjects. It will be in your form of appointment or alternatively you can email financial@examinations.ie and they will tell you.

RealJohn

I think the answer to 2 is 5% per paper marked as Gaeilge but I’m not sure about that, nor am I sure that it doesn’t vary from subject to subject.

It really should be more. We were very short on examiners capable of marking through Irish last year and the 5% extra really only covers all of the extra paperwork in my opinion, leaving you unpaid for the extra expertise required for the actual marking. I’m aware of at least one person in my subject who told me that he’ll be marking again this year but not as Gaeilge because he feels that the extra hassle isn’t worth the extra money.
More for me I suppose.

MathsManiac

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Can I ask whats it like correcting the new JC English? Tempted to apply next year.

They did this using a new online marking system last year and I heard it was WAY better than before. No totting and practically no admin work, etc. Sit at your PC, look at a piece of work, give it a mark, move on. Sounds lovely. The sooner they move all the rest of them to this way the better.

MuireannNiSh

What exactly is this extra paperwork you speak of? I've just accepted a position to correct JC OL Spanish and I said I would be willing to correct through Irish (I looked through the sample papers and it seemed very manageable - I went to a Gaelscoil and got an A2 in HL Irish for the Leaving not all that long ago). However, now I'm regretting not looking into it further.

Rodar08

This is probably such a silly question but for newbies maybe not that silly. I assume if you’ve already been offered superintending you cant also be an examiner? Subbing for years but my first time doing superintending or marking. Just noticed they’re still looking for examiners and would like the experience of jc marking. I think I’m being offered lca for 5/6 days which I hear is the norm for first time superintending.

rainbowtrout

Rodar08 wrote: »

This is probably such a silly question but for newbies maybe not that silly. I assume if you’ve already been offered superintending you cant also be an examiner? Subbing for years but my first time doing superintending or marking. Just noticed they’re still looking for examiners and would like the experience of jc marking. I think I’m being offered lca for 5/6 days which I hear is the norm for first time superintending.

Yes you can be offered both. The only problem you would have is if the conference for your subject was in mid june (probably the early subjects like English, Irish, Maths) and it overlapped with your days of supervision.

Rodar08

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yes you can be offered both. The only problem you would have is if the conference for your subject was in mid june (probably the early subjects like English, Irish, Maths) and it overlapped with your days of supervision.

Thanks Rainbowtrout yeah my subject is English. How would that work? So should I apply now for examiner and hope for the best? What if they do clash? I’m confused lol. I’ve already accepted superintending. And also, where is the conference held? Various locations or just athlone? So I have to travel all the way there for it? that’s a bit of a trek for me.

Postgrad10

It's only in Athlone , can be in AIT , a hotel or a secondary school.