Private landlord reference letter

Escapees

Have got a reference letter from my landlord but am just wondering how any future landlord is to know it's legit?! Since it's not from an established letting agent business, it could just be made up, with a mate's contact details on it...

beauf

...even if it's not legit what will a landlord do, sue the reference....it's all meaningless...if you are in a job a long time that would carry more credibility perhaps...

You would need some 3rd party or govt bond system to make any real difference.

Escapees

beauf wrote: »

...even if it's not legit what will a landlord do, sue the reference....it's all meaningless...if you are in a job a long time that would carry more credibility perhaps...

You would need some 3rd party or govt bond system to make any real difference.

Yeah... And as for company reference letters, I'd imagine it's not too hard to draft up and print off a fake one of these either...

beauf

Nothing.

A real one often isn't that much use either. People will write one for people they hardly know.

You can look up some information on online though. Prtb, and social media etc.

Fian

Tbh: I think alot of the benefit is simply to imply to the tenant that a landlord reference matters, so that at the other end of the tenancy they will think it is of some importance to play fair with a view to getting a reference from the landlord who is taking them on. Which is of limited value, but every little helps.

KellyXX

Im pretty sure they will ring the landlord and place of work and suss out the the best of their ability if its real. If they even are a tiny bit suspicious theyll just move on to the next person, so its really how convincing your landlord is on the phone at this stage.

davo10

Fian wrote: »

Tbh: I think alot of the benefit is simply to imply to the tenant that a landlord reference matters, so that at the other end of the tenancy they will think it is of some importance to play fair with a view to getting a reference from the landlord who is taking them on. Which is of limited value, but every little helps.

Given the amount of people looking for rental accommodation and the inherent risks associated with getting bad tenants/difficulties removing them, I would be amazed if any LL would rent to anyone without an ironclad reference. I always phone the previous LL to check if the tenant left on good terms. It is easy to pick up on a spoof reference, a few simple questions is enough. Also, a quick search of RTB site for disputes takes only a few minutes, if in doubt, don't rent.

Baby01032012

Escapees wrote: »

Yeah... And as for company reference letters, I'd imagine it's not too hard to draft up and print off a fake one of these either...

It’s too easy. As a landlord I was caught out when tenant provided false references to letting agent. Ended up with criminals not paying rent for 8 months. Currently suing them.

Was letting another place recently myself and met another frauster. Too smooth too good to be true. Worked in financial fraud unit of a major bank and had written reference to prove it. All made up. Gut instincts and being aware as written refs worth nothing. Letting agents don’t care.

Samuel T. Cogley

Reference with phone number or on to the next potential tenant. Bank statement* to cross check rent was being paid or again on to the next tenant. Even genuine LL's have very good reasons to lie about outgoing tenants. Ideally you want the previous LL as well as the last one.

(*Oh no he ditn't :pac: )

Samuel T. Cogley

Mr.S wrote: »

In all my years of renting I've never had a landlord or letting agent call a reference. Sure you could just have a friend at the other end of the phone!

They are essentially meaningless. Landlords are more interested in the seeing that your in full time employment with money coming in.

Gave a fake reference there for a friend - was phoned by the EA who was pretty good at trying to sniff out a rat. Must be a decent liar :pac:

While I relaise I'm only reinforcing your point, it highlights why things need to be cross checked - and go with your gut!

Samuel T. Cogley

Mr.S wrote: »

When you think about it, it's pretty hard to verify references and income. All easily spoofed. If the landlord or agent gets a brainwave they might google the employer and ring the direct line, but then will be shot down when the person on the other end tells them nothing, because they can't give out information to random people who call

Down to gut instinct as you say IMO.

Cross reference with bank statements. Mine show who my employer is and my mortgage payment (rent) each month. I know it's a contentious issue but this is why LL's want them. However I concede it's at least 75% gut.

Nightmare that people not only have to pay current rents but have to get judged at the same time, but there we go. It's what a overly pro-tenant legislative agenda does.

Escapees

Would be cool if there was some regulated central tenant register that landlords could check, kind of like the same way banks can check people's credit rating...

davo10

Mr.S wrote: »

In all my years of renting I've never had a landlord or letting agent call a reference. Sure you could just have a friend at the other end of the phone!

They are essentially meaningless, a reassurance at most when you see well presented references on headed paper (easily faked). Landlords are more interested in the seeing that your in full time employment with money coming in.

Times are a changing, Rental issues are in the media every day now, even the previously most uninformed LLs are now aware of the pitfalls.

Let me ask you, are you more wary of potential tenants now compared to a couple of years ago? Would you be more inclined now to check out prospective tenants? Or, if a tenant stopped paying rent, would you regret not phoning a previous LL?

davo10

Mr.S wrote: »

My point was in relation to validating a reference is actually pretty hard. Take OP's example - he has a private landlord with a written reference / contact details - how do you know that's genuine? You can ring, but again, you can't be sure that's a landlord.

By all means, Landlords should vet future tenants, but I wouldn't base it on a reference!

What do you base it on?

Mrs OBumble

As an employer, I was phoned by an estate agent years ago, checking the reference of someone who I'd just hired.

I was able to confirm that the details the caller provided were correct and that in my opinion he was earning enough to afford the likely rent for a property in <<wherever>>. I'm not sure I'd even do that now, without the written consent of the employee, but things were simpler in the 1990s. But I laughed when they asked me if I thought he's a house-proud type of person: I'd hired the guy two weeks previously, he hadn't even started the job yet because he was moving to the town for it). Funnily enough, his attitude to house work wasn't something I'd considered in the hiring process!

DesperateDan

When I was moving out of my first ever place after a year when I was a very poor student at 18 I had this battle axe of a property manager to deal with. Thought I badly needed a reference for the next place, and she asked for a €20 cheque for it. Felt I had to give it to her but it was a lot of money back then

KellyXX

davo10 wrote: »

Given the amount of people looking for rental accommodation and the inherent risks associated with getting bad tenants/difficulties removing them, I would be amazed if any LL would rent to anyone without an ironclad reference. I always phone the previous LL to check if the tenant left on good terms. It is easy to pick up on a spoof reference, a few simple questions is enough. Also, a quick search of RTB site for disputes takes only a few minutes, if in doubt, don't rent.

Some people may be good at spoofing, but going on your gut feeling is going to weed out 90% of them, and only the expert reference spoofers will get through.
But thats down to a 10% chance rather than 50/50.
And if you get in any tiny way a bad felling, just hang up and go to the next one.

KellyXX

davo10 wrote: »

Times are a changing, Rental issues are in the media every day now, even the previously most uninformed LLs are now aware of the pitfalls.

Let me ask you, are you more wary of potential tenants now compared to a couple of years ago? Would you be more inclined now to check out prospective tenants? Or, if a tenant stopped paying rent, would you regret not phoning a previous LL?

100% this

I had to rent through airbnb because the landlord was sick of it all and airbnb meant credit card and verified identity, rent control etc.
But I also had to supply him references and bank statements for double checking.
HE said its down to how exposed he is now. He just cant take silly chances anymore, as now he might lose tens of thousands on a bad decision before it can be rectified

HE also insisted ion references from my last 3 landlords. He didnt even bother to ring my current landlord at the time because he said he might say anything if he wanted rid of me. The previous ones would be quick to tell him if i was to be avoided..

beauf

davo10 wrote: »

..., I would be amazed if any LL would rent to anyone without an ironclad reference....

A scammer might have 20yrs experience of running scams. A landlord hasn't a hope of spotting them. Besides you could rent to garda and they could trash the house as bad as students might. Good luck chasing them for damages...

Anyway you do you best..what else can you do. The main problem is over holding as that's drives up the costs enormously.

Arcade_Tryer

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Cross reference with bank statements. Mine show who my employer is and my mortgage payment (rent) each month. I know it's a contentious issue but this is why LL's want them. However I concede it's at least 75% gut.

Nightmare that people not only have to pay current rents but have to get judged at the same time, but there we go. It's what a overly pro-tenant legislative agenda does.

Curious as to how an "overly pro-tenant legislative agenda" equates to a significant lack of housing supply? The opposite would appear true.

If you're referring to landlords removing property from the market, that's still insignificant compared to the fundamental issue of a lack of housing being built in Dublin.

beauf

I thought he meant the lack of landlord protection means lots of information and proofs are required.

I dunno how you connected that to housing supply, not simply rental supply.

Samuel T. Cogley

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Curious as to how an "overly pro-tenant legislative agenda" equates to a significant lack of housing supply? The opposite would appear true.

If you're referring to landlords removing property from the market, that's still insignificant compared to the fundamental issue of a lack of housing being built in Dublin.

You seem to be conflating two issues here. Yes LL's can be more picky in a 'sellers' market but that's not at issue really as the anecdotal consensus here previously was if a suitable tenant could not be found the property would be sold or left empty.

It creates a bar to entry. If it was easier to get rid of a problematic tenant LL's would relax some of their requirements in regards to references and cross checks. Similarly if there was a proper credit referencing system, and credit was affected by rent, we'd all be better off.

As it stands LL's are being asked to do the equivalent of employing someone with no probationary period. If a sacked employee refused to leave the guards would be called. In accommodation they simply stay put and stop paying rent and it takes months to get rid of them.

rossmores

As it stands LL's are being asked to do the equivalent of employing someone with no probationary period. If a sacked employee refused to leave the guards would be called. In accommodation they simply stay put and stop paying rent and it takes months to get rid of them.

And the can continue to collect their RA its another great incentive

rossmores

The risk in the private rented accommodation is at its highest level I vet tenants using linkedin as i
think refs can be easily fabricated.
I don’t offer long-term just 3-6 months unless its to a large company for there staff just got another one last week I think it will be more popular way to let in the future as I have a couple so far and they work well so no rtb registrations are required company employees I think are classed as licensees I don’t know them as I deal with their HR depts directly
Long notices periods have encouraged overholding and further regs with lead to an even more dysfunctional market with even less supply higher prices just like our increasing arrears mortgage market where those who won’t engage play the system the obvious solutions are not voter friendly

KellyXX

rossmores wrote: »

The risk in the private rented accommodation is at its highest level I vet tenants using linkedin as i
think refs can be easily fabricated.
I don’t offer long-term just 3-6 months unless its to a large company for there staff just got another one last week I think it will be more popular way to let in the future as I have a couple so far and they work well so no rtb registrations are required company employees I think are classed as licensees I don’t know them as I deal with their HR depts directly
Long notices periods have encouraged overholding and further regs with lead to an even more dysfunctional market with even less supply higher prices just like our increasing arrears mortgage market where those who won’t engage play the system the obvious solutions are not voter friendly

I had to rent through Airbnb to get place. My landlord won't do more than six months. He tells me it's because of the risks, legislation and rent controls that he is having nothing to do with the rtb.
It suits me to do six months only at the moment and it did eliminate most of the competition so it worked out for me to.
I now either have to buy or just go get another Airbnb when the 6 months are up.

By the way, while I'm on the subject, anyone know a good way of searching Airbnb to find all the properties that have deals on say six month stays? The one in in I found by going to a normal viewing and then the landlord seeing up the Airbnb side of it after checking my references etc. It would be easier if I could filter out these types of airbnbs on Airbnb instead.

davindub

KellyXX wrote: »

I had to rent through Airbnb to get place. My landlord won't do more than six months. He tells me it's because of the risks, legislation and rent controls that he is having nothing to do with the rtb.
It suits me to do six months only at the moment and it did eliminate most of the compression so it worked out for me to.
I now either have to buy or just go get another Airbnb when the 6 months are up.

By the way, while I'm on the subject, anyone know a good way of searching Airbnb to find all the properties that have deals on say six month stays? The one in in I found by going to a normal viewing and then the landlord seeing up the Airbnb side of it after checking my references etc. It would be easier if I could filter out these types of airbnbs on Airbnb instead.

Would you not find it hard to find an airbnb that will do deals over the summer months? Have you forgotten holiday accommodation is seasonal?

rossmores

I might add i have never used airbnb and yes many LLs are moving away from rtb lets especially in high demand areas they have choice with less risk
The RTB is not fit for purpose when it's influences encourage and reward bad tenant practices.

KellyXX

davindub wrote: »

Would you not find it hard to find an airbnb that will do deals over the summer months? Have you forgotten holiday accommodation is seasonal?

This guy is only doing long term Airbnb so I'm pretty sure there are lots more of that ype of Airbnb arrangement. But I have to move out in June and if I haven't bought my own place by then I'll need to move.
He has suggested a swap with a friend of his who has a similar place nearby let under the same kind of Airbnb arrangement but I can't stay where I am past 1 June.
I just want to be able to look up different ones just to have options when the time comes though.