Why aren't banks chasing her

bigsis16

My sis took out mortgage 16 yrs ago, my mother went guarantor for her.
Long story short, it was always difficult to keep mortgage paid. Then she lost her job, so was paying interest only. Then she got into lot of debt trying to keep it paid. Finally, in December 2016, she stopped paying it. She got a solicitor to deal with the banks, - this is where I am wondering what's going on - the banks haven't been in touch with her at all, the didn't answer solicitors letters until last august. It was December 2017 before they asked for her bank statements etc.
The latest is they have said she might have been overcharged with the tracker mortgage and they will need to check this out.
Two problems here - 1. my mother is in her 80's, she will be liable for the mortgage payments, the stress of this is horrible for my parents.
2. my sister will not tell the family what is going on, every time she tells yet another lie, and my mother won't let any of us speak to her about it as it will upset her.

We don't believe the banks would simply not be bothering to contact her. She is working at the moment, the house is empty. She will never be able to pay the monthly 1,100, nearly 200k left to pay on house, she'll be dead before that.
Advice please.
Many thanks

GingerLily

Has your mother ever been personally contacted about the loan?

Widdensushi

Could the house be in positive equity?

bmm

From whose perspective do you want advice the advice?
I don't think the bank will go after your folks when they find out the ages involved. They may put a lean on their house though but this could take years to sort out.
Are you worried about your inheritance ?
Are any of your siblings trying to help your sister or do you all feel aggrieved by her conduct?

Cuddlesworth

bigsis16 wrote: »

My sis took out mortgage 16 yrs ago, my mother went guarantor for her.
Long story short, it was always difficult to keep mortgage paid. Then she lost her job, so was paying interest only. Then she got into lot of debt trying to keep it paid. Finally, in December 2016, she stopped paying it. She got a solicitor to deal with the banks, - this is where I am wondering what's going on - the banks haven't been in touch with her at all, the didn't answer solicitors letters until last august. It was December 2017 before they asked for her bank statements etc.
The latest is they have said she might have been overcharged with the tracker mortgage and they will need to check this out.
Two problems here - 1. my mother is in her 80's, she will be liable for the mortgage payments, the stress of this is horrible for my parents.
2. my sister will not tell the family what is going on, every time she tells yet another lie, and my mother won't let any of us speak to her about it as it will upset her.

We don't believe the banks would simply not be bothering to contact her. She is working at the moment, the house is empty. She will never be able to pay the monthly 1,100, nearly 200k left to pay on house, she'll be dead before that.
Advice please.
Many thanks

Based on what you said, it sounds like your sisters house is very much in positive equity, with 14 years of the mortgage paid and roughly 200k left. Plus repayments remaining on a tracker mortgage would be pretty low right now anyway.

So its a sweet deal for the bank. They get accumulating interest owed with a asset that's worth more, while your sister hides her head in the sand. There is a long long list of people to get to before your sister.

riclad

Why does,nt she rent the house out.
Or sell the house.
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/bank-to-write-off-debts-of-more-than-1000-landlords-under-deal-36597051.html

The bank may allow her to sell the house ,even if its negative equity.
I think the banks simply do not have the staff to go after the 1000,s
of people in negative equity.
Simply leaving the house empty makes no sense,
even an empty house needs maintenance.
Every month her debt is increasing.
she can go to mabs and get free legal advice
from a free legal advice centre.
Every case is different ,the bank look at her salary,
how much can she afford to pay if the house was sold.

https://www.mabs.ie/en/

tedpan

So it's a tracker mortgage and she was only paying the interest. How much was she paying?

pwurple

riclad wrote: »

Why does,nt she rent the house out.
Or sell the house.
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/bank-to-write-off-debts-of-more-than-1000-landlords-under-deal-36597051.html

https://www.mabs.ie/en/

Renting the house out will put her in an even bigger mess. She will owe extra tax, insurance, prtb and possible legal fees on top of the other debts. There is a reason landlords are going bust unable to pay debts in your linked article.

I would not advise someone who is clearly incompetent with money to go near dealing with tenants.

Widdensushi

I love these threads where a new op disappears after asking a question.

Teyla Emmagan

They will never come after your parents, they will sell the house first, make what they can and then write off the rest.

Also, if there is a case of tracker mismanagement they could genuinely be taking forever to sort it out.

bigsis16

Many thanks for the replies.
in answer to some of the questions -
I work shifts, that's the reason I haven't replied until now.
Re inheritance, not even a concern, the siblings that live beside my parents will be inheriting.
Mabs won't deal with her as my mum is guarantor, if it was just herself she could walk away and declare herself bankrupt.

the house is at most worth €150,000
they send letters letting my mother know how much in arrears the mortgage is but nothing else so far.

My mother refuses to discuss the problem, refuses to tell my father anything about it, refuses to let us even try to help our sister, when we have done, the result is another argument. Any money we give mum will be given to her to bail her out yet again.

She is 44, single, living in a rented room. This has been her life for so many years now, its just sad that she can't seem to move on with her life. We have clubbed together to give her large amounts of money several times which she doesn't have to pay back and yet she still is no further on than dec 16.
Am really happy to read that the banks won't come after my parents, hope to god that's true. I just don't think they will be so quick to write off the balance if the house sells. They haven't even got someone of their own to value it yet. so it remains empty.

Thanks again

Claw Hammer

There is no reason for the bank not to come after your parents. They will seek judgement against them if they can.

have2flushtwice

So how can the op protect the mother? Obvoulously the mortgage holder has her head stuck in the sand.

Squatter

have2flushtwice wrote: »

So how can the op protect the mother?

Obviously the mortgage holder has her head stuck in the sand.

Unfortunately unless she's in a position to pay off the balance remaining on her sister's mortgage, there's not really much that she can do.

antoinolachtnai

Presumably your parents own their home? Your mother needs to get legal advice.

Dev84

Widdensushi wrote: »

Could the house be in positive equity?

Why would that matter?

Ghekko

bigsis16 wrote: »

My mother refuses to discuss the problem, refuses to tell my father anything about it, refuses to let us even try to help our sister, when we have done, the result is another argument. Any money we give mum will be given to her to bail her out yet again.

She is 44, single, living in a rented room. This has been her life for so many years now, its just sad that she can't seem to move on with her life. We have clubbed together to give her large amounts of money several times which she doesn't have to pay back and yet she still is no further on than dec 16.
Am really happy to read that the banks won't come after my parents, hope to god that's true. I just don't think they will be so quick to write off the balance if the house sells. They haven't even got someone of their own to value it yet. so it remains empty.

Thanks again

Why are you getting involved? Your mother refuses to engage in conversation about it with you, so leave it between her and your sister to deal with. And stop giving money to your adult sister. She obviously hasn't used it in the spirit in which it was given. Why do you or other siblings feel that you should take responsibility? It would be different if your sister was genuinely interested in your help and was trying to sort this mess out. And also if your mother was asking for help then by all means get the financial advice needed to help. But neither seem to have requested help.

have2flushtwice

Perhaps the op is trying to prevent a disaster down the track. After all if the bank moved on the mothers property, presumably the family home, who would get the blame by all the siblings?

Caliden

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Presumably your parents own their home? Your mother needs to get legal advice.

From what the OP is saying the mother is just as bad as the sister when it comes to ignoring the problem.

professore

pwurple wrote: »

Renting the house out will put her in an even bigger mess. She will owe extra tax, insurance, prtb and possible legal fees on top of the other debts. There is a reason landlords are going bust unable to pay debts in your linked article.

I would not advise someone who is clearly incompetent with money to go near dealing with tenants.

Rent a room tax free. But otherwise you are right about her financial incompetence. With all due respect your sister sounds like a waste of space who was given everything all her life. Where is she living now? Edit - she's renting. Why in gods name is she renting??? She has a house???

Really Interested

Dev84 wrote: »

Why would that matter?

Because if the Ouse is worth more than the outstanding amount then the mother will have no liability.

Dev84

Really Interested wrote: »

Because if the Ouse is worth more than the outstanding amount then the mother will have no liability.

True enough.

But you'dwondr how the bank will manipulateit though in order to take possession of the properties.

Banks are cnuts.

Michael D Not Higgins

professore wrote: »

Edit - she's renting. Why in gods name is she renting??? She has a house???

And the house is empty for some reason? This doesn't make any sense.

Xterminator

Dev84 wrote: »

True enough.

But you'dwondr how the bank will manipulateit though in order to take possession of the properties.

Banks are cnuts.

so the bank are at fault here? in this situation? really!

OP your mother is putting her head in the sand. you should tell your father as he may be the only person who can talk sense into your mother. He owns his house as much as the mother does and his share of that house & anysavings is in jeopardy.

SEPT 23 1989

sell the house and then see if they will do a deal on the difference

cheaper in the end for them then dragging it out for years in courts

just remember its only money and not worth causing mayhem in a family over

bigsis16

bigsis16 wrote: »

She is 44, single, living in a rented room. This has been her life for so many years now, its just sad that she can't seem to move on with her life.

Why is she renting a room when she owns a house?

Instead of paying to rent in a house share she could be living in her own house renting rooms to others and taking in money to pay towards her mortgage. How can people be so clueless with finances.

Carlee Unsightly Bandana

Carlee Unsightly Bandana wrote: »

Why is she renting a room when she owns a house?

Instead of paying to rent in a house share she could be living in her own house renting rooms to others and taking in money to pay towards her mortgage. How can people be so clueless with finances.

It's absolutely bizarre.

Based on the limited information in the thread it sounds like the sister has just decided to ignore the house and hope the problem magically vanishes.

Bob24

Carlee Unsightly Bandana wrote: »

Why is she renting a room when she owns a house?

Instead of paying to rent in a house share she could be living in her own house renting rooms to others and taking in money to pay towards her mortgage. How can people be so clueless with finances.

Might be that she sees the the house as being in an inconvenient location or in very poor condition (not an excuse not to deal with the problem of course and she might be over picky, but unless she is crazy I assume there must be a reason for not living in the house).

Bob24

Ghekko wrote: »

Why are you getting involved? Your mother refuses to engage in conversation about it with you, so leave it between her and your sister to deal with. And stop giving money to your adult sister. She obviously hasn't used it in the spirit in which it was given. Why do you or other siblings feel that you should take responsibility? It would be different if your sister was genuinely interested in your help and was trying to sort this mess out. And also if your mother was asking for help then by all means get the financial advice needed to help. But neither seem to have requested help.

I get what you mean, but if the OP thinks it is impacting or will impact the wellbeing of their mother or even the whole family, I understand why they feel they should try to do something.

No an easy situation as based on what is in this post they are not responsable for the problem in any way but it might still be their problem (let’s say they bank goes after their parents and causes then a lot of stress, will they realistically be able to completely ignore it and say “not my problem”?)

Bob24

Also OP, do I get it right that your father is being kept in the dark about the issue at your mother’s request?

Are your parents separated? Even if they are I think it is poor form not to inform him about his daughter’s situation, but if he is living in the family house which is potentially a collateral for a distressed mortgage and/or is sharing finances with someone who is a guarantor for that mortgage, not informing him about the situation is completely disrespectful of him (not to mention it would be a sign of a strange relashionship beteeen your parents, but it’s their private life and not to be judged - what I would judge though is that if it is the case putting his house and money at risk without telling him is definitely wrong).

CeilingFly

Bob24 wrote: »

Also OP, do I get it right that your father is completely in the dark about the issue at your mother’s request?

Are your parents separated? Even if they are I think it is poor form not to inform him about his daughter’s situation, but if he is living in the family house which is potentially a collateral for a distressed mortgage and/or is sharing finances with someone who is a guarantor for that mortgage, not informing him about the situation is completely disrespectful of him (not to mention it would be a sign of a strange relashionship beteeen your parents, but it’s their private life and not to be judged - what I would judge though is that if it is the case putting his house and money at risk without telling him is definitely wrong).

I'll have a wild guess you are from Dublin.

Things are different in rural areas. Some times one parent will do a favour for a child that the other parent will never know about.


For the OP - i sent you a PM - if you can find out those details I'll be able to have an educated guess on the tracker.


Very difficult situation and probably causing stress leading to it not being discussed.

Sometiumes best option to to present in writing 2/3 options that all have a "way out" and say you are willing to work to achieve a solution without making judgement.

In reality, if the bank had done normal checks, she'd never have got a mortgage in the first place.

I certainly wouldn't be worried about them coming after your mother - banks can be quite sensible too and know that moving after a guarantor of her age will never produce a good result.

jimmycrackcorm

The OP wants to know why the bank isn't chasing the debt.

One rational reason is if the bank balance to be PTSB then the mortgage may well be one of the non performing loans that they will simply sell off. Why bother chasing it when a vulture fund will come after it, and indeed won't be any about chasing the guarantee by the parent also.

I don't think the mother should necessarily be overly concerned about the guarantee anyway as the only likely outcome from chasing that would be a lien on her own house applicable for probate.

the_syco

CeilingFly wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't be worried about them coming after your mother - banks can be quite sensible too and know that moving after a guarantor of her age will never produce a good result.

If the house was bought in 2002, I'd say that the mortgage will be one of many that will be sold to a vulture fund who won't give two fcuks about the age of the mother, and will move in to take both houses.

CeilingFly

the_syco wrote: »

If the house was bought in 2002, I'd say that the mortgage will be one of many that will be sold to a vulture fund who won't give two fcuks about the age of the mother, and will move in to take both houses.

You don't know the lender, you don't know the circumstances, you don't know deatails of the mortgage, yet you assume that it will be worst case scenario.

You also read far too much into sensationiast media who haven't an iota of what they are saying - journalism is gone as a real trade in exchange for the most sensationalist headline you can write - to hell with the truth.

Debt management firms or as sensationist media like to call them "vulture funds" are far easier to deal with and far quicker to do a deal for all parties to exit.

These funds have been in the market for years and still its very rare to see them in courtrooms - any chance the sensationist media would check on that? (no, because thery couldn't write a hysterical headline for such a story)

Also, the OP's sister has a solicitor involved, so would not be considered not co-operating.

Squatter

Dev84 wrote: »

Banks are cnuts.

And people who stubbornly refuse to address their delinquent mortgages are saints

CeilingFly

Dev84 wrote: »

Banks are cnuts.

In another thread you said that your bank allowed you vary your mortgage and repay arrears over a period of time.

If they were cnuts, they would have simply gone th direct repossession route, but becasue the are not cnuts, they did a deal with you.

The cnuts as I told, you are the strategic defaulters that are one of the primary causs of the high variable rates in this country - with normalised rates you wouldn't have arrears. Vent yir anger at the strategic defaulters you are subsidising.

Bob24

CeilingFly wrote: »

I'll have a wild guess you are from Dublin.

Things are different in rural areas. Some times one parent will do a favour for a child that the other parent will never know about.

I know what you mean, but there is favour and favour. If it means engaging the couple’s financial responsibility for 100000 euros without telling your spouse/partner about it, I still think it’s wrong no matter what. It is only acceptable to me if spouses/partners manage their finances separately and the one doing it is able to take the potential hit from their own funds with no expectation that it will have any impact on the other one down the line.

Is anyone in the family interested in buying the house from your sister?