Activehybrid 3/5/7

rocky

How come we don't hear more about these BMWs, were they sold in tiny numbers? If I want to replace the 2005 530i the Activehybrids sound like a great alternative, although very scarce and therefore expensive.

Yes the economy is probably not great (getting 17l/100km in the 530 so used to high consumption), but in addition to mine, an f10 (do they come in estate form?), besides being 1 generation newer, has:
- 2 extra turbos
- some small battery for torque fill (not sure of the technical term)
- low tax (ones I saw advertised were 143-149 CO2s, so 390 compared to current 1500 which the wife hates)

Probably will have to give up some spec (in the current car I have the upgraded Nappa leather, Logic 7, comfort seats), but will keep the 6 cyl engine with a couple of turbos tacked on.

Are there any known widespread issues with these Activehybrids? They sound more complicated than a plain 535i, probably the tax is lower (535i is 183 CO2s so 750 a year). Do they have problems if mainly used for short trips (2-10km)?

Matt Simis

They were oddities alright. Similar to the equivalent Lexus', the Battery (and motor) too small to be meaningful imo.

The later 330e/530e don't have 6 pots (not sure this matters really anymore, test drive them?) but at least can plug in and charge and do 25km+ ish on electric mode vs the ludicrous 2km on the Activehybrid.

The newer e models have single turbos too afaik.

Any chance of stretching to a used early model 530e? They appear in the UK from time to time.. it would do your *entire* short trip commute on electric or really close to it.

rocky

Matt Simis wrote: »

They were oddities alright. Similar to the equivalent Lexus', the Battery (and motor) too small to be meaningful imo.

The later 330e/530e don't have 6 pots (not sure this matters really anymore, test drive them?) but at least can plug in and charge and do 25km+ ish on electric mode vs the ludicrous 2km on the Activehybrid.

The newer e models have single turbos too afaik.

Any chance of stretching to a used early model 530e? They appear in the UK from time to time.. it would do your *entire* short trip commute on electric or really close to it.

I've been brainwashed by the motors forum here and elsewhere that inline 6 = creamy goodness, anything else = didn't quite make it. In fairness I quite like the car I have right now and if it was solely up to me I'd keep it until it disintegrated, tax be damned. What I pay in tax now I'd pay treble in depreciation on a 20+k newer motor. I guess you don't see the depreciation as you do tax, in one lump sum (or 4) yearly. Only if you pay attention when the car it's traded in, and dealers do everything to hide the real cost.

Anyway, with the Activehybrids I thought I could have my cake and eat it too, maybe in a few years when electric takes over and old 'dino juice' cars have depreciated by a lot ... by then we'd all prefer driving electrics.

Being older, I hoped the AHs would be much cheaper than the latest 4 cyl hybrids (10k compared to 20+k)

unkel

inline 6 petrol = creamy goodness!

The only setup that's smoother than an inline 6 is two inline 6s in V (V12)

rocky

The thing I don't get is, how come they haven't depreciated by approx 50% every 3 years?

e.g. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201802083550787?keywords=activehybrid&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=gl52rs&page=1

"LIST PRICE NEW £54835", that should be £13708.75 6 years later, but it's asking £17,987, £4k more.

And the list price is probably optimistic, I remember BMW offering great deals when new because they couldn't shift them. A fair price £10k? I'll have 2 please :cool:

Matt Simis

rocky wrote: »

The thing I don't get is, how come they haven't depreciated by approx 50% every 3 years?

e.g. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201802083550787?keywords=activehybrid&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=gl52rs&page=1

"LIST PRICE NEW £54835", that should be £13708.75 6 years later, but it's asking £17,987, £4k more.

And the list price is probably optimistic, I remember BMW offering great deals when new because they couldn't shift them. A fair price £10k? I'll have 2 please :cool:

In fairness thats about the same price as the standard 2012/2013 530i/535i are going for, so thats not really the AH holding values, likely all petrols given shifting market sentiments and super limited supply of non-diesels.

Del2005

Matt Simis wrote: »

They were oddities alright. Similar to the equivalent Lexus', the Battery (and motor) too small to be meaningful imo.

Lexus aim was to get V8 power from a V6 with electric assistance, battery is fine for that.

Matt Simis

Del2005 wrote: »

Lexus aim was to get V8 power from a V6 with electric assistance, battery is fine for that.

I only have experience of the 300H (a peer of sorts to the 330 AH), which for sure wasn't targeted at V8 power! But I do accept if the goal is to just bump torque and responsiveness in short bursts, a small battery fits that bill. It just not really doing much for fuel saving nor the environment which to me is expected for a hybrid.

Soarer

So are the ActiveHybrids only good for a couple of kilometres on battery only? Like a Prius?

rocky

Probably, yes. Around 2 miles quoted at speeds up to 30km/h, but in reality even less.

zilog_jones

Matt Simis wrote: »

It just not really doing much for fuel saving nor the environment which to me is expected for a hybrid.

I can't say much for the BMWs, but the Lexus hybrids are certainly making the cars more efficient. An IS200/250 would average about 30 MPG, whereas a IS300h would easily do over 40 - with superior performance.

Talking about range with petrol hybrids is all a bit academic - there's no point in putting a larger battery in these, as it would just end up being wasteful. In a few recent 100km trips I got around 600-900 Wh from regen each time - any other energy going into the battery is coming from the ICE, which is only efficient to do so in certain conditions.

Del2005

Matt Simis wrote: »

I only have experience of the 300H (a peer of sorts to the 330 AH), which for sure wasn't targeted at V8 power! But I do accept if the goal is to just bump torque and responsiveness in short bursts, a small battery fits that bill. It just not really doing much for fuel saving nor the environment which to me is expected for a hybrid.

I was thinking of the GS450h. It's improved fuel efficiency by 10% and when the bio fuel scam was started they decided that improving the fleet to 5% bio fuel was better than a small % on E85. So if we can get more people to swap to hybrid\PHEV then they'll be more willing to go BEV next time.

Matt Simis

zilog_jones wrote: »

Talking about range with petrol hybrids is all a bit academic - there's no point in putting a larger battery in these, as it would just end up being wasteful. In a few recent 100km trips I got around 600-900 Wh from regen each time - any other energy going into the battery is coming from the ICE, which is only efficient to do so in certain conditions.

Not really following your logic? I guess if you are doing over 100kph for say, 30KM+ you will need a really big battery to make any major impact. But most trips are nothing like that and a larger battery directly contributes to less petrol consumption.

Also a larger battery allows a more powerful motor (in simply terms) which again means an expanding driving envelope and more "on time" for the electric drive. Id like to see PHEV evolve so that the battery power is the primary locomotion source in more and more scenarios.

zilog_jones

We're talking about petrol hybrids here (BMW ActiveHybrid and Lexus hybrids), not PHEVs. If you put in a larger battery, you're not going to magically get more energy - it would mean using more petrol to charge the battery, which is no good for efficiency. 1-2 kWh batteries are plenty for this application.

Matt Simis

Sorry yes, was thinking PHEV. To me non plug in just never floated my boat.

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

Sorry yes, was thinking PHEV. To me non plug in just never floated my boat.

If you go to New York, you immediately notice the benefit of hybrids (over the diesels we have here)