Diesel buses banned next year

unkel

Great news. No more new diesel buses for Dublin from next year. Hopefully diesel cars will be banned soon after!

Linky

In London they are ahead:

New BYD ADL Electric Bus Fleet Deployed In London — Route 153 Now Fully Electric

No new buses, existing diesels will just be maintained longer. Can't see electric buses in Ireland any time soon.

It would be nice if School buses, especially private companies could upgrade their sometimes ancient diesel buses.

unkel

School buses are mainly used in rural Ireland, where diesel emissions do far less harm. I had to give up commuting into the city centre by bicycle 20 years ago mainly because of the diesel bus emissions.

KCross

I think the indo misquoted it. The text in the official document says...

Transition to low emission, including electric buses, for the urban public bus fleet with no diesel only buses purchased from 1 July 2019

I guess that leaves the door open for Hybrid diesel. Better, but not as dramatic as the indo headline.

unkel

All the Dublin buses do short routes, EV only would be far better suited than hybrid diesel electric. Or PHEV buses :rolleyes:

punisher5112

It will be hybrid 1st.

I've seen a few 2018 sg models already, bit silly really.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

School buses are mainly used in rural Ireland, where diesel emissions do far less harm. I had to give up commuting into the city centre by bicycle 20 years ago mainly because of the diesel bus emissions.

Haha nice, Do less harm by which you mean kill less boggers ?

Diesel buses driving country routes are still driving into towns and villages and are usually the filthiest of diesels as the fleets are usually very old.

Walk around Carlow Town some day or any town and see if you think diesel isn't an issue add to that the Coal smoke that's supposed to be banned !

goodluckduck

Very good news generally and makes total sense for Dublin Bus but what would Bus Eireann buy?  I'm not aware of any electric bus that can do Dublin - Cork - Dublin in a day?  Surely any benefit of diesel hybrid would be marginal on mainly motorway routes?

Atlantic Dawn

Wright Bus in NIRL make nice Hybrid buses...

http://www.wrightsgroup.com/datasheets/StreetCarRTV%20QCD190r1.pdf

porsche boy

Deleted User wrote:

It would be nice if School buses, especially private companies could upgrade their sometimes ancient diesel buses.

Ha! We cant even get the local private school busses to fix the seats & seatbelts. Some chance of them upgrading from the '92 reg rot box their running.

goodluckduck

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Wright Bus in NIRL make nice Hybrid buses...

http://www.wrightsgroup.com/datasheets/StreetCarRTV%20QCD190r1.pdf

nice indeed but they're clearly for urban routes only

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

To me diesel buses give a chesty cough instead of hearty laugh. Hybrid, or even better phev long distance buses would be great for the slow crawl from Busaras to Red Cow. Then just start the generator for the motorway jaunt to Cork.

unkel

goodluckduck wrote: »

Very good news generally and makes total sense for Dublin Bus but what would Bus Eireann buy?  I'm not aware of any electric bus that can do Dublin - Cork - Dublin in a day? 

That would be a few years away realistically (and for reasonable money). Tesla are making articulated trucks (EV only) though that have a range of 800km. That kinda range would be perfect for buses in Ireland

goz83

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Enough people are dying as a direct result of air pollution caused by diesel engines. Not something I would call fashionable. Sorry if trying to keep people from dying is costing you valuable money.

prinzeugen

I had the joys of traveling on the hybrid bus that was on the 16 route a few years back.

Slow and you got thrown around every time it accelerated or braked.

doolox

Would it be possible to allow busses to run off overhead powerlines in built up areas and convert to hybrid power on the rural legs of their routes.

I can't imagine DB routes like Celbridge, Maynooth etc being run on 100% electric busses unless battery storage and recharge rates increase dramatically.

Probably hard to train drivers to steer accurately enough to keep contact with overhead wires but I could be wrong. DB drivers can turn their busses on surprisingly tight and narrow streets.

fritzelly

doolox wrote: »

Would it be possible to allow busses to run off overhead powerlines in built up areas and convert to hybrid power on the rural legs of their routes.

I can't imagine DB routes like Celbridge, Maynooth etc being run on 100% electric busses unless battery storage and recharge rates increase dramatically.

Probably hard to train drivers to steer accurately enough to keep contact with overhead wires but I could be wrong. DB drivers can turn their busses on surprisingly tight and narrow streets.

Isn't that called a Luas?

Quackster

They don't have to be electric though. CNG would make a lot of sense, especially for the long-distance routes. Hydrogen would be the ideal way to go IMO

Yer Da sells Avon

prinzeugen wrote: »

I had the joys of traveling on the hybrid bus that was on the 16 route a few years back.

Slow and you got thrown around every time it accelerated or braked.

I remember seeing it broken down on the side of the road a few times. That was nearly a decade ago. I'd hope the technology has improved since then. I remember hearing that it met a fiery end after leaving Dublin.

G-Man

Its a step in the right direction, but why is this better than getting private cars to stop using diesel.. At least with private cars they can switch to petrol. Diesel is the only current ICE fuel for buses.

Hybrid buses cost upto 60% more with great reduced running costs, but fuel saving is not enough to outweigh the cost.

It could be that this move is more expensive and will gobble up big parts of transport budgets, so that we end up with worse transport overall.. Persuading even more people to take the car.

And the biggest savings in emissions is just getting people no to take the car. I would think car users can be persuaded by having a much better transport system, not necessarily a lower emission one.

ELM327

goodluckduck wrote: »

Very good news generally and makes total sense for Dublin Bus but what would Bus Eireann buy? I'm not aware of any electric bus that can do Dublin - Cork - Dublin in a day? Surely any benefit of diesel hybrid would be marginal on mainly motorway routes?

Cork-Dublin-Cork non stop would be against the driving hours limits, there would have to be a break mid way. Which could, you know, conveniently occur when the bus is near a charger.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

ELM327

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

True but 4 hours cork to dublin is a short shift, you'd generally see drivers doing an up and back run.

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well then you are delusional.
Look up any of the infinite articles on the subject, the stats showing the increased deaths directly attributable to diesel emissions in cities.

I'm literally shocked that someone in 2018 has the gall/innocence/ignorance/cluelessness to be claiming to be unaware of the issues with diesel emissions.

You're not a flat earther or freeman of the land are you?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

PaddyFagan

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This is from a scientific journal, 10,000 deaths a year in Europe can be attributed to NOX emissions from diesel vehicles.
http://pure.iiasa.ac.at/14823/

Paddy

Alf Veedersane

Patww79 wrote: »

Are you taking about Ireland or somewhere in Asia or something?
Ask this is just another scam to squeeze a few more tax pennies from us.

You're already contributing towards a 'green bus fund'. You will also contribute tax pennies to fines when emissions targets are missed - transport is the second biggest cause of GHG emissions. So no, it won't cost you less if nothing is done.

And no we don't live in India or China but people die in Ireland because of pollutants such as particulates and NO2, which are also generated by diesel vehicles.

Doesn't mean you can blame diesel vehicles alone but they are a significant contributor to the hundreds of deaths related to cardiovascular and respiratory conditions every year. WHO quantified it at 681 deaths in 2012. I've seen higher but it's likely greater than you expected.

ELM327

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There's plenty of research papers and statistics readily available.
The source in the post above mine for instance.

There's even a documentary on netflix at the moment about dieselgate "Dirty Money S1E1" I'd suggest you watch this if nothing else. I'm as much a conspiracy theorist as they get but to deny the impact of diesel on the environment is quite frankly the most ludicrous thing I've heard in some time.

ELM327

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You're already contributing towards a 'green bus fund'. You will also contribute tax pennies to fines when emissions targets are missed - transport is the second biggest cause of GHG emissions. So no, it won't cost you less if nothing is done.

And no we don't live in India or China but people die in Ireland because of pollutants such as particulates and NO2, which are also generated by diesel vehicles.

Doesn't mean you can blame diesel vehicles alone but they are a significant contributor to the hundreds of deaths related to cardiovascular and respiratory conditions every year. WHO quantified it at 681 deaths in 2012. I've seen higher but it's likely greater than you expected.

+1
And it won't be tax pennies either, there are large fines looming of approx 600million in 2020. That's 150 euro for each man, woman and child, or 400euro for every PAYE employee. And that's only for 2020.

no.8

Hollister11 wrote:

If one service offered everything for 50 a month, that would probably and illegal streaming/downloads tbh

prinzeugen wrote:

I had the joys of traveling on the hybrid bus that was on the 16 route a few years back.

prinzeugen wrote:

Slow and you got thrown around every time it accelerated or braked.

I use hybrid buses quite often in Switzerland (while commuting or weekend jaunts). Absolutely no difference in terms performance or comfort is noticed by myself or colleagues and the drivers on some routes are often rejected F1 drivers so it would be obvious. They are not fully implemented but most people seem to enjoy using them.

Absolutely love that acceleration using the electric motor and the ICE starting up.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Alf Veedersane

Patww79 wrote: »

The main thing for me is that I firmly believe the environment is just a tool to have a have in our pocket because using health just want enough. Though even if it is true, I really don't care one but about the environment, bottom line for me is how much of the money I earn that I get to keep each month.

You don't have to. Lots of people who act in a way that is good for the environment don't necessarily care about the environment but what it means for their pocket.

And it's unlikely to cost you less if Ireland doesn't tackle transport emissions and it's business as usual.

And the people dying bit which you may not care about but some do, even if those people aren't related to them.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Attol

Patww79 wrote: »

The main thing for me is that I firmly believe the environment is just a tool to have a have in our pocket because using health just want enough. Though even if it is true, I really don't care one but about the environment, bottom line for me is how much of the money I earn that I get to keep each month.

Well, it's going to cost everyone a fair whack once the emissions fines start rolling in, so it may be worth seeing if there's anything you can do to cut back on emissions in your lifestyle. As well as that, poorer air quality will lead to increased pressure on the health services, which will also add to your taxes.

Alf Veedersane

Patww79 wrote: »

That last part I don't believe at all. Fabricated numbers, but that's the way of the world now.

You mean you don't like what the numbers say so you'll just do a Donald and call it fake news.

And nitrogen dioxide and PM2.5 are just constructs to get us to pay more tax to the lizard men.

ELM327

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You mean you don't like what the numbers say so you'll just do a Donald and call it fake news.

And nitrogen dioxide and PM2.5 are just constructs to get us to pay more tax to the lizard men.

Sure isn't global warming great, the winter is too cold now!

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

ELM327

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well you're the one ignoring rationality and evidence. I'm not sure if you're wilfully ignorant to suit your view, or actually hold the viewpoint in the first place.
It's getting to this stage.

Alf Veedersane

Patww79 wrote: »

If you're going down the childish jibing route then what's the point?

What's the point if you're going to flat out deny findings of studies? If you're just going to say numbers are made up.

Edit: yes I do believe it. I base my opinions in science and logic.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Alf Veedersane

Patww79 wrote: »

When you're rolling out the old global warming - cold winters lines as an argument, then I honestly don't think you believe in it yourselves.

You're like cyclists that have no rational argument so they just immediately type something about Joe and road tax as a defence mechanism to everything.

I never mentioned global warming.

Your 'rational argument' is "those figures are made up".

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Alf Veedersane

Patww79 wrote: »

Your mate did.

Not really to do anything with what I was saying.

Not really anything to debate or discuss with you here. You don't have a basis for your position other than anything that goes against it is made up.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Alf Veedersane

Patww79 wrote: »

So there's 10000 European death certificates out there last year with the cause as diesel emissions? Or even to very widely broaden it out, as pollution?

Do deaths from lung cancer caused by smoking have 'smoking' as the cause of death.

The cause of certain illnesses can be identified as exposure to specific pollutants.

Quackster

Patww79 wrote: »

The main thing for me is that I firmly believe the environment is just a tool to have a have in our pocket because using health just want enough. Though even if it is true, I really don't care one but about the environment, bottom line for me is how much of the money I earn that I get to keep each month.

Wow. This really makes for grim reading.

Mooooo

If they improved planning laws and allowed the city to go up would make a bigger diff imo. More could walk or cycle to work then

Mooooo

Mooooo wrote: »

If they improved planning laws and allowed the city to go up would make a bigger diff imo. More could walk or cycle to work then

Will take a 20 year debate first....... horribly public transport also hinders high-rise. So the idea is to get the traffic out of Dublin to the commuter areas.......

positron

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I have friends in Delhi who have told me similar things - "it's not too bad", "it's not as bad as china" etc. I guess it just goes to show one could get used to pretty much anything.

K.Flyer

I am all for a cleaner Environment and all that goes with it. But using the schtick of diesel emissions being the greatest evil of our time and as a result of it contributing to approx 10,000 deaths in europe per year it must be bannned seems like overkill when there are far greater contributers to human deaths out there.
I will applaud governments and campaigners when they get off their backsides and outright and completely ban all tobacco products, then we will see big changes to the number of annual deaths across europe.

Tackling Smoking in the E.U.

Tobacco consumption is responsible for nearly 700,000 deaths in the EU every year. Smokers suffer more from poor health (as they are more at risk of cancer, cardiovascular and respiratory diseases) and half of them die prematurely (14 years on average).