Options if battery problems and out of warranty

grudgehugger

Hi all,

have been doing lots of web browsing in recent days trying to work out whether the new Leaf makes sense for me and the family. This forum is a great resource - thanks to all who contribute.

The main question I have that I haven’t found an answer for is whether or not it’s realistic to think that if the battery becomes an issue and I’m out of warranty, will I have the option of paying someone to put a new battery in the car?

The great oracle Google suggests to me that it is very rare that anyone does this. Is it just because there aren’t many older EV’s or is there a more sinister reason?

For context, my car owning behaviour is to keep the same car for as long as possible - basically I change when what I have stops working or my circumstances change (e.g. when kid no 2 arrived in 2014 I had to regretfully move on from my super-reliable 00 Micra).

So if I’m buying a brand new car, I feel like I should get 12-15 years out of it.

I don’t expect the Leaf battery to survive that long if I’m doing 18k km a year in it - prob more like 8 years or so??? And hence am wondering if my car is in good nick 8 years on, is it reasonable to expect to be able to get another several years out of it by spending some cash (maybe 5-7k???) on a new battery.

Any thoughts?

Soarer

The odds of something going wrong with the battery are slim.
But, apparently, Nissan will swap it out for a new one for €5,500.

goz83

I don't see why a brand new EV (Leaf 2 for example) wouldn't last you a good 10 years. There are 2011 Leafs still on the road with with 80% battery.....though I am not sure of the mileage. I have a 2012 Leaf with about 80k klms on her and she has 11 out of 12 bars still. Anything built prior to late 2013 is old battery tech and degrades much quicker than the current tech, so I reckon you would be doing just fine buying new now as long as a range loss of say 30% by the time she is 10 is ok with you.

I would be very surprised if there weren't a load of places doing battery replenishment by that stage. It's already possible to have Leaf cells replaced in the UK and they are not exactly that common. By the time you need to pass it on, it will owe you nothing.

KCross

Tough question to answer definitively as there is some truth to what you say in that the current EV's are not old enough yet to have it happen in large numbers.

However, the oldest cars (7yrs old now) are still working, albeit with reduced range. The larger the battery the less likely it is to need replacing as the reduced range won't have as much of an impact.
e.g. losing 20% of a 100km range car and 20% of a 300km car is very different to the end user.

In your case it would be a 40kWh Leaf and if you are not dependent on the full range of the car you can suffer some degradation in 12yrs that won't matter to you as it will still comfortably do your daily driving.

If however, you want to be able to regularly do the full range of the car then it becomes more critical.

Based on current figures/reliability/experiences, its unlikely you'll need a battery replacement in 12yrs.

What sort of distances are you travelling on a daily basis?

grudgehugger

Current daily commute is 80k round trip (mostly N11/M50).

Highly unlikely to go higher than that.

From what I’ve read, that should be much less than a fully charged 40kWh Leaf’s range, even on a bad day with the air con on?

grudgehugger

Also relevant to note that we’ll still have a Skoda diesel for use on longer trips.

The EV would be for commuting and going to local shops/kids classes etc.

Sleeper12

I think it depends on how long you expect to get out of the car. EVs don't have as long a lifespan as a petrol or diesel. The bottom line is if the battery dies after 10 or 12 years you are likely to scrap the car rather than keeping it on the road. That's my uneducated opinion anyway.

unkel

It is sure starting to look like the newer generation batteries will outlive the car and won't degrade much over time (as in maybe 10%-30% in 10 years). Most new EVs now come with an 8 year warranty on the battery. By which time the car will only be worth a few grand anyway. If you buy an Ioniq in the USA you will get a lifetime warranty on the battery. That's how confident Hyundai is that the battery will last

Many even predict now that when the useful life of a current generation EV is over after say 10-15 years, the battery will still be quite valuable and it will be used for another say 10-15 years as home or grid attached storage

unkel

Sleeper12 wrote: »

EVs don't have as long a lifespan as a petrol or diesel.

It's starting to look like new generation EVs have a far longer lifespan than petrol / diesels

KCross

grudgehugger wrote: »

Current daily commute is 80k round trip (mostly N11/M50).

Highly unlikely to go higher than that.

From what I’ve read, that should be much less than a fully charged 40kWh Leaf’s range, even on a bad day with the air con on?

grudgehugger wrote: »

Also relevant to note that we’ll still have a Skoda diesel for use on longer trips.

The EV would be for commuting and going to local shops/kids classes etc.

I can't see you having any issues with range or battery longevity based on that. The battery is much more likely to outlive the car.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I think it depends on how long you expect to get out of the car. EVs don't have as long a lifespan as a petrol or diesel.

I don't think that has been proven one way or the other yet. The oldest Leaf is 2011.

billy few mates

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I think it depends on how long you expect to get out of the car. EVs don't have as long a lifespan as a petrol or diesel. The bottom line is if the battery dies after 10 or 12 years you are likely to scrap the car rather than keeping it on the road. That's my uneducated opinion anyway.

That’s rapidly becoming the life span of a normal petrol/diesel car anyway, not because they’re worn out but because of the problems people are finding trying to insure them as a lot of insurance companies don’t want to ensure them once they become ten years old any more...

xl500

Looking at Battery Tech I believe 100000K on a Battery will be easily achievable

Also, the BMS in the vehicles are now getting smarter and limiting any charging issues

If you had a 10-year-old Leaf in 10years time I believe replacement batteries will be available

As regards Battery Failure any Car can Fail and outside Warranty can be costly

Just Look at modern Diesel vehicles DMF failures are common also Timing Belts are a costly repair if they fail

But to date all one can say is the reliability of EVs seems to be good as they are way simpler mechanically than an ICE

Biggest issue in Ireland is the Poor state of Public Charging infrastructure

Look at this Leaf and its the Older Gen

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1513170

ELM327

xl500 wrote: »

Looking at Battery Tech I believe 100000K on a Battery will be easily achievable

Also, the BMS in the vehicles are now getting smarter and limiting any charging issues

If you had a 10-year-old Leaf in 10years time I believe replacement batteries will be available

As regards Battery Failure any Car can Fail and outside Warranty can be costly

Just Look at modern Diesel vehicles DMF failures are common also Timing Belts are a costly repair if they fail

But to date all one can say is the reliability of EVs seems to be good as they are way simpler mechanically than an ICE

Biggest issue in Ireland is the Poor state of Public Charging infrastructure

Look at this Leaf and its the Older Gen

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1513170

That's not the older gen, it's gen 1.5. So it's the newer battery tech.
They got rid of that car (due to age only) with 180k miles if i'm not mistaken.

xl500

ELM327 wrote: »

That's not the older gen, it's gen 1.5. So it's the newer battery tech.
They got rid of that car (due to age only) with 180k miles if i'm not mistaken.

What I meant was its the older Gen compared to the New Leaf which the OP was considering

techdiver

This is the single biggest barrier to me for ev. We all know how nowadays most smartphone batteries start to go to **** after a year or so and due to the relative "newness" of ev's the impact of long term battery reliability is unknown. Having to shell out €5 - €6k after a few years would be a big issue for many owners.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the move to ev's, but I think for the long term replacement for ice cars across the board, ev's need to prove longer term reliability and reduce in price massively.

ELM327

techdiver wrote: »

This is the single biggest barrier to me for ev. We all know how nowadays most smartphone batteries start to go to **** after a year or so and due to the relative "newness" of ev's the impact of long term battery reliability is unknown. Having to shell out €5 - €6k after a few years would be a big issue for many owners.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the move to ev's, but I think for the long term replacement for ice cars across the board, ev's need to prove longer term reliability and reduce in price massively.

But you don't have to shell out.

Even 20% reduction in 10 years (which is worse than the observed roadster degradation) on a 350km car is making the range 280km. You don't have to shell out there for a replacement in all likelihood. Battery replacement is only really necessary for the small <30kWh battery evs that will be a thing of the past soon anyway.

Lantus

As mentioned insurance will trump longevity. A lot of insurers limit vehicle age to 10 to 15 years and they can legally change this to anything they like it seems.

Car ownership could look very different in that time period. Batteries can be replaced and in 10 years they will probably do 1500km range easily.

KCross

techdiver wrote: »

This is the single biggest barrier to me for ev. We all know how nowadays most smartphone batteries start to go to **** after a year or so and due to the relative "newness" of ev's the impact of long term battery reliability is unknown. Having to shell out €5 - €6k after a few years would be a big issue for many owners.

Comparing phone or laptop batteries to an EV battery is not an apples to apples comparison.

They are both Li-ion tech but thats about it as far as similarities are concerned.

The main difference is that your phone or laptop only has a handful of cells (2-4 maybe). So, if one of those cells goes goes bad you've lost 25-50% of the capacity. You'll notice that big time in a phone or laptop.

However, an EV has hundreds of cells. I think the old Leaf had about 200. If a few of those go bad it won't even register with you and experience so far shows that they don't go bad.

There are significant differences in the internals of these cells as well so again not a good comparison. These EV batteries should generally outlive the car.

Cell replacement (rather than entire pack replacement) is also possible already and is sure to grow as an industry, so the €5k replacement won't be necessary either.

techdiver

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Good to know.

Sleeper12

KCross wrote:

Cell replacement (rather than entire pack replacement) is also possible already and is sure to grow as an industry, so the €5k replacement won't be necessary either.

That would be be big selling point.

When I change to an EV van I would be using a fully battery charge 5 or 6 days per week. Around 100 miles per day. Being able to buy rebuilt batteries would take the worry out of getting hit with a big bill

KCross

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That would be be big selling point.

When I change to an EV van I would be using a fully battery charge 5 or 6 days per week. Around 100 miles per day. Being able to buy rebuilt batteries would take the worry out of getting hit with a big bill

There are a handful doing it in the UK already. Not sure if there are any in Ireland yet but it will inevitably happen.

NOTE: Its not a rebuilt battery you get. They just pull out the weakest cells and replace those. The pack is only as good as its weakest cells. Once they hit low voltage the car pulls up (turtle mode) to protect them.

thierry14

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That would be be big selling point.

When I change to an EV van I would be using a fully battery charge 5 or 6 days per week. Around 100 miles per day. Being able to buy rebuilt batteries would take the worry out of getting hit with a big bill

You'll still have all the other parts that go in ICE like suspension, brakes, electrics, power steering, racks, fancy auto pilot sensors everywhere, reverse cameras and all that jazz

Plus electric motor and inverter can fail too and have in the likes of Tesla etc, with big costs

Battery I wouldnt worry about too much, a lot of cells to fail

Should still be much better than modern diesels

Sleeper12

thierry14 wrote:

You'll still have all the other parts that go in ICE like suspension, brakes, electrics, power steering, racks, fancy auto pilot sensors everywhere, reverse cameras and all that jazz

They can all fail in my diesel van so I wouldn't fact those in.

I'm looking at getting pv solar in the next three years or so. There are days when I am home for a few hours so could get free charging there. Being a commercial vehicle I'll get the vat back from the ev van and they might allow the pv panels for vat too

unkel

Charging an EV with solar PV is only worth €6.65c/kWh as you could charge your car at night for that rate. The payback time for your PV installation could easily be 40-50 years even if you use all the electricity produced for charging your EV (and nothing goes back to the grid for free)

Do some serious sums before you spend thousands on a PV system. Not trying to discourage you, but don't want you to waste your money either. I like renewables and doing your bit for the environment, I have solar hot water tubes, solar PV and an EV myself

Sleeper12

unkel wrote: »

Charging an EV with solar PV is only worth €6.65c/kWh as you could charge your car at night for that rate. The payback time for your PV installation could easily be 40-50 years even if you use all the electricity produced for charging your EV (and nothing goes back to the grid for free)

Do some serious sums before you spend thousands on a PV system. Not trying to discourage you, but don't want you to waste your money either. I like renewables and doing your bit for the environment, I have solar hot water tubes, solar PV and an EV myself

If I could €5 per day on PV it would be money well spent. thats about €1800 per year.

The average house only spends €1 per day heating water with gas. So the average house only saves €1 per day on solar hot water compared to heating with gas. So the average house saves €350 to €500 with solar

I believe this is why almost all new buildings in Dublin are being fitted with PV rather than Solar

unkel

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If I could €5 per day on PV it would be money well spent.

Sure but you won't save €5 per day. Not even €1 per day on average. If you did say twice the average yearly mileage in your EV (36k km), and you would have a very inefficient EV like a Van driven really hard, you would use about 20kWh/100km, or about 20kWh per day. If you could use all of this to charge your car, you not only would need a massive PV array to do this, about 7kW or so, or nearly 30 large PV panels (and it won't be able in winter), but in theory your maximum saving per day on a hot summers day would be 20kWh * 6.65c = €1.33

Sleeper12

unkel wrote:

Sure but you won't save €5 per day. Not even €1 per day on average. If you did say twice the average yearly mileage in your EV (36k km), and you would have a very inefficient EV like a Van driven really hard, you would use about 20kWh/100km, or about 20kWh per day. If you could use all of this to charge your car, you not only would need a massive PV array to do this, about 7kW or so, or nearly 30 large PV panels (and it won't be able in winter), but in theory your maximum saving per day on a hot summers day would be 20kWh * 6.65c = €1.33

Not to mention that it wouldn't be in the driveway most days when the PVs are producing.

I hear you

unkel

Hopefully there will be an install subsidy and ideally a feed in tariff for domestic PV soon, making these figures look much better

bp_me

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If I could €5 per day on PV it would be money well spent. thats about €1800 per year.

At this time of year you are going to need something like a 10kW array to make €5 per day. Obviously it will get better in summer but we just get an awful lot of cloudy days here. (and this is before you factor in conversion losses of charging a battery and then converting it back to AC to charge a car where its converted back to DC!)

Example... my PV array (I believe 2kW) has made 2.7kWh today and almost certainly wont get to 3kWh.

air

Getting back on topic, the ease of replacing cells varies hugely from car to car.
The leaf is the only model I've heard of it being done on to date.
On a Golf GTE for example, you would have to replace a quarter of the pack if one of the 96 cells in the pack failed. I believe a Telsa pack is broken down into quite large modules also.
There is a bit of labour involved in removing, opening, resealing and replacing the pack from the chassis also, not to mention breaking out and replacing the week cells and reassembling the sub packs.
Thankfully the failure rate is proving to be very low.

unkel

bp_me wrote: »

At this time of year you are going to need something like a 10kW array to make €5 per day. Obviously it will get better in summer but we just get an awful lot of cloudy days here. (and this is before you factor in conversion losses of charging a battery and then converting it back to AC to charge a car where its converted back to DC!)

Example... my PV array (I believe 2kW) has made 2.7kWh today and almost certainly wont get to 3kWh.

That's pretty decent. So a 10kW array woud have made 13.5kWh

That's worth €0.89 if you are charging your car with it. Nowhere near €5...

And a 10kW array would cost about 10 grand to have installed...

Lantus

unkel wrote:

Charging an EV with solar PV is only worth €6.65c/kWh as you could charge your car at night for that rate. The payback time for your PV installation could easily be 40-50 years even if you use all the electricity produced for charging your EV (and nothing goes back to the grid for free)

PV plus a wind turbine.

DrPhilG

grudgehugger wrote: »

Current daily commute is 80k round trip (mostly N11/M50).

Highly unlikely to go higher than that.

From what I’ve read, that should be much less than a fully charged 40kWh Leaf’s range, even on a bad day with the air con on?

A friend just tested the new Leaf in 4 degrees, windy, rainy, heat on full blast and driving at 120kmph. Even at that speed and those conditions you would comfortably get 160km on a charge. So easily enough for your trip.

To be honest if you're not going above 80km in a day you could easily get a 1 year old 30kwh for an awful lot less and it would still cover your journey fairly easily. The Ioniq, BMW i3 or new Zoe would do it too. Hell even my 24kwh could make an 80km round trip!

thierry14

DrPhilG wrote: »

A friend just tested the new Leaf in 4 degrees, windy, rainy, heat on full blast and driving at 120kmph. Even at that speed and those conditions you would comfortably get 160km on a charge. So easily enough for your trip.

To be honest if you're not going above 80km in a day you could easily get a 1 year old 30kwh for an awful lot less and it would still cover your journey fairly easily. The Ioniq, BMW i3 or new Zoe would do it too. Hell even my 24kwh could make an 80km round trip!

Those 30kWh are holding value well though

I can't see any under 17k and that's including UK and exchange rate

Was thinking they might hit 10k fast with newer models out but they haven't

unkel

thierry14 wrote: »

Those 30kWh are holding value well though

I can't see any under 17k and that's including UK and exchange rate

Was thinking they might hit 10k fast with newer models out but they haven't

They won't be hitting 10k any time fast. It is starting to look more and more that the depreciation on EVs, on any EV, has almost come to a halt. There is momentum now, even the general population is getting aware, that we will all be driving EVs soon enough

For me the announcement today that new diesel buses are banned from Dublin next year finally hit it home that this government is the first Irish government ever with tough action in mind and without the "it'll be grand" Irish attitude.

grudgehugger

DrPhilG wrote: »

Hell even my 24kwh could make an 80km round trip!

Thanks to all for their input - consider my mind put at ease!

I like the idea of the range of the car being well beyond what I need for my day-to-day use. Means that when around Dublin/Wicklow I should be able to drive without too much of a focus on the remaining charge and be able to rely on home charging pretty much 100%. And that if I want I can do some longer trips like to my parents or in-laws nonstop, then recharge at a public point once there.

Time to go looking into a test drive....

I3 Rex with backup generator will do all your local driving then petrol when you run out on a long trip, then you can fast charge or plug in at an public AC point, best of both worlds.

As for Solar PV, Do not do it. Ireland has long Summer daylight hours and you'll have far more energy than you can use, in the darker months your generation will be poor, the solution is FIT, this won't happen in Ireland any time soon as the grid is maxed out, it can't take any more renewable energy and we've to export a substantial amount of wind energy at peak wind generation, micro generation ? forget it, that's not going into the grid any time soon.

Current 24 Kwh leaf battery costs 5,500 Euros installed, I expect this to cost half or less by the time most people need one. By comparison, Toyota charge 2500 Euros for a 1 Kwh NiMh battery in the Prius.

DrPhilG

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I3 Rex with backup generator will do all your local driving then petrol when you run out on a long trip, then you can fast charge or plug in at an public AC point, best of both worlds.

Why recommend a rex for someone with an 80km round trip commute? And "highly unlikely to go higher than that".

Completely unnecessary expense in my opinion.

Any of the EVs on the market now, even older models, will manage the OP's commute comfortably.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

By comparison, Toyota charge 2500 Euros for a 1 Kwh NiMh battery in the Prius.

Holy crap that's insane. Daylight robbery.

thierry14

unkel wrote: »

They won't be hitting 10k any time fast. It is starting to look more and more that the depreciation on EVs, on any EV, has almost come to a halt. There is momentum now, even the general population is getting aware, that we will all be driving EVs soon enough

For me the announcement today that new diesel buses are banned from Dublin next year finally hit it home that this government is the first Irish government ever with tough action in mind and without the "it'll be grand" Irish attitude.

I think your right

Might change when availability kicks in

For now it's very steady across all brands except for BMW i3

24 month old ones are now nearly 20k

Thats as bad depreciation as I know of, 45k new down to 20k in 2 years

They are probably priced 10k too much new imo, market correction kicks in quickly used

e-golf I think is over priced new too, but used market doesn't think so as they are nearly 30k for 1 year old models

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801052485616?advertising-location=at_cars&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2016&postcode=m52ty&model=I3&page=1&make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

Gumbo

bp_me wrote: »

At this time of year you are going to need something like a 10kW array to make €5 per day. Obviously it will get better in summer but we just get an awful lot of cloudy days here. (and this is before you factor in conversion losses of charging a battery and then converting it back to AC to charge a car where its converted back to DC!)

Example... my PV array (I believe 2kW) has made 2.7kWh today and almost certainly wont get to 3kWh.

Depending on the system of course. Yesterday I produced 4kwh.
My 3kw array has already produced 5.5kwh today.
I have a full tank of hot water already (200L) and it’s currently powering the base load. But ultimately, most of that has gone back to the grid for free.

Dumping energy is not efficiently using the PV system , it's using energy you "must" use rather than energy you "have" to use meaning you're consuming energy because you have to and not need to or otherwise wouldn't use/need.

thierry14

thierry14 wrote: »

I think your right

Might change when availability kicks in

For now it's very steady across all brands except for BMW i3

24 month old ones are now nearly 20k

Thats as bad depreciation as I know of, 45k new down to 20k in 2 years

They are probably priced 10k too much new imo, market correction kicks in quickly used

e-golf I think is over priced new too, but used market doesn't think so as they are nearly 30k for 1 year old models

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801052485616?advertising-location=at_cars&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2016&postcode=m52ty&model=I3&page=1&make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

If true then that's again, good news for me on PCP and good for 2nd hand buyers.

But you buy any new expensive car and you'll suffer high depreciation. As I said before , spec up a A4 TDI DSG and see what it's worth in 3 years.

grudgehugger

grudgehugger wrote: »

Thanks to all for their input - consider my mind put at ease!

I like the idea of the range of the car being well beyond what I need for my day-to-day use. Means that when around Dublin/Wicklow I should be able to drive without too much of a focus on the remaining charge and be able to rely on home charging pretty much 100%. And that if I want I can do some longer trips like to my parents or in-laws nonstop, then recharge at a public point once there.

Time to go looking into a test drive....

DrPhilG wrote: »

Why recommend a rex for someone with an 80km round trip commute? And "highly unlikely to go higher than that".

Completely unnecessary expense in my opinion.

As per the highlighted text above.

The Rex will allow him to keep it pretty much as long as he wants and the car will still provide all the range he wants in years to come as long as he has petrol, it will guard against capacity loss.

He won't find himself short if for some reason he is somewhere and has to be somewhere else and can not get back home to take the diesel out.

He could be 80 Km away and have to go in the other direction and it would be a very long way home and double back on himself.

His Wife/Partner etc may need the diesel, or he could find he has to meet up somewhere with his partner in order to drive somewhere else and swap cars his wife might then have to charge unwillingly to get back home.

He may need to go somewhere and need to stop at a fast charger and the charger could be in use for 50 mins and/or have another person waiting, charger could be down and no backup. Leaf 24 Kwh does not charge that fast especially when cold. I would recommend 30 Kwh more than 24 for that very reason, it charges faster or you get more Kwh for the same time.

There are various scenarios where you could recommend Rex.

Originally Posted by Mad_Lad View Post
By comparison, Toyota charge 2500 Euros for a 1 Kwh NiMh battery in the Prius.

DrPhilG wrote: »

Holy crap that's insane. Daylight robbery.

Indeed it is. Makes the 5.5K for Leaf batter seem a right bargain.

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If true then that's again, good news for me on PCP and good for 2nd hand buyers.

But you buy any new expensive car and you'll suffer high depreciation. As I said before , spec up a A4 TDI DSG and see what it's worth in 3 years.

True

A good pcp deal can save someone on depreciation, could work out better for you

Yeah expensive cars are the worst, cheap cars like Dacia Sandero are the best

DrPhilG

thierry14 wrote: »

Yeah expensive cars are the worst, cheap cars like Dacia Sandero are the best

Trying to sell my dad's Sandero at the minute. Fancy it?

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

Dumping energy is not efficiently using the PV system , it's using energy you "must" use rather than energy you "have" to use meaning you're consuming energy because you have to and not need to or otherwise wouldn't use/need.

Ohh I know. Battery storage is next on my list.
As I have always said, I wouldn’t have got the system only for I had the roof of my house off during renovations, I worked with a Solar PV form just as they were entering the Irish market and got a 3kw system with immersion divertor for a very very reasonable cost fitted. I would have been mad to say no.

ewj1978

So how much would it be to buy a used Leaf/fluence or whatever battery for a PV system. Or can it even be done?

thierry14

grudgehugger wrote: »

Thanks to all for their input - consider my mind put at ease!

I like the idea of the range of the car being well beyond what I need for my day-to-day use. Means that when around Dublin/Wicklow I should be able to drive without too much of a focus on the remaining charge and be able to rely on home charging pretty much 100%. And that if I want I can do some longer trips like to my parents or in-laws nonstop, then recharge at a public point once there.

Time to go looking into a test drive....

This is worth a read too

Ireland is best country in the world to own an old Leaf thanks to our wonderful climate

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss

On the battery issues, there is a guy on speakev in the U.K that refurbishes EV batteries for 1. 5k to new condition

An old Leaf has 48 modules and each module costs like 140e

I can see a day where battery reconditioning will be like getting a car serviced in terms of pricing

Lost a bit of range, no problem, few modules changed @ 140e each plus labour

Once enough are on the road a market will appear

ELM327

kceire wrote: »

Depending on the system of course. Yesterday I produced 4kwh.
My 3kw array has already produced 5.5kwh today.
I have a full tank of hot water already (200L) and it’s currently powering the base load. But ultimately, most of that has gone back to the grid for free.

Would you not install some battery storage?
I'd hate to give 1 watt hour away for free to the grid.

Gumbo

ELM327 wrote: »

Would you not install some battery storage?
I'd hate to give 1 watt hour away for free to the grid.

See post #46
The system is set up to take a battery, I just have to get the funds together but after spending 120k returning the house last year and a wedding this year, it’s hard to siphon off money for my toys. I’ve also had my current Leaf for a year now so already getting the itch to change 😂

To be honest the saving of not having to buy a battery would be worth it at current costs even if dumping energy. Just keep the Leaf charging to 80% and keep it topped up whenever the sun is out , that's the best you can do for now.