More troubles with Turas Nua

Twelve Bar Blues

Hi,

I would like to do a Payroll course, which the officer in DSP said would be fine, and I would qualify for funding. Jobseekers are allowed €500/year grant towards education, and I was told 'private courses' are included.
Then I was told as I'm on TNs' books, they must arrange the funding for me.
After 2weeks of waiting on callbacks, I received an email yesterday saying NO.
The guts of the reason given was "Unfortunately private courses such as this one, are not ones we can refer you on to and cover / part cover the costs.
If you get a guaranteed job offer, on the condition that you complete this course, we may be able to review this at that time."

Today my intent is to get to someone in DSP to assist me. Surely being with TN does not negate my rights?

Does anyone have any advice please?

thanks,
Twelve Bar Blues

Nomis21

It is sad that Turas Nua instead of helping you into employment is actually preventing you from persuing opportunities that will help you find a job.

Ask to see a social welfare inspector. They can have some influence to help you.

Steve30x

Steve30x

Twelve Bar Blues wrote: »

Hi,

I would like to do a Payroll course, which the officer in DSP said would be fine, and I would qualify for funding. Jobseekers are allowed €500/year grant towards education, and I was told 'private courses' are included.
Then I was told as I'm on TNs' books, they must arrange the funding for me.
After 2weeks of waiting on callbacks, I received an email yesterday saying NO.
The guts of the reason given was "Unfortunately private courses such as this one, are not ones we can refer you on to and cover / part cover the costs.
If you get a guaranteed job offer, on the condition that you complete this course, we may be able to review this at that time."

Today my intent is to get to someone in DSP to assist me. Surely being with TN does not negate my rights?

Does anyone have any advice please?

thanks,
Twelve Bar Blues

Contact Jeff Rudd on Facebook. He can help. Himself and a few other people brought Turas Nua / Seetec aka Jobpath to the dublin High Court and won a case against them for illegally cutting people off the dole. Also he has been investigating JobPath with the past two years so he can help you.

splinter65

Steve30x wrote: »

Contact Jeff Rudd on Facebook. He can help. Himself and a few other people brought Turas Nua / Seetec aka Jobpath to the dublin High Court and won a case against them for illegally cutting people off the dole. Also he has been investigating JobPath with the past two years so he can help you.

None of this is true.

Steve30x

splinter65 wrote: »

None of this is true.

Its very very true.

Steve30x

splinter65 wrote: »

None of this is true.

https://www.facebook.com/Jeffrudd31/posts/1833821596628532?pnref=story

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1833659906644701&set=a.201612419849466.54255.100000021280418&type=3&theater

An Irish Victory.
.
Today (26th day of January, 2018) in the Dublin highcourt, the judgement of Ms. Justice Faherty was delivered regarding the case taken against the Department of Social Protection, Seetec and Turas Nua.
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The outcome was a typical style Irish one. It was alleged in complaint and the judge in her verdict agreed that all involved had "egregiously" acted "erroneously" as stated in court. To further quote her own exact full report legalese words:
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"...the Court is satisfied that what is sought to be achieved by the applicant in the within application is the leave of the Court to judicially review by seeking orders of certiorari of what are alleged to be the unlawful decisions of the second respondent and third respondent whereby the applicant was denied his Jobseekers Allowance, Supplementary Welfare Allowance and, as he alleges, a proper, fair, effective and expeditious appeal process."
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In plain English, they had broken the law in stopping social welfare payments. Due to a citizen not signing a private contract, the state and private company acted illegal and by their own (reluctant) admission, they further stated that they had acted outside legislative powers. The judge agreed. This is a court verdict - not an opinion.
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Up till now all we had (even though it was clear cut itself) was a court admission by the state and private company, reluctantly admitting they acted wrong and a sworn admission given by them also reluctantly that they had not the legal power to cut benefits as they were doing.
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This now is further backed up by court verdict - that they have been deemed to have acted outside the law of the land.
.
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The sting in the tale.
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Here's where it gets typical Irish. As the original initiator of the case Damien Fagan, had bravely decided not to let the now found court guilty, away with their actions, he went down the legal route to get his illegal deducted money back. As he much later was able to do this, having to force their hand just so he could gain what should not have been stolen from him in the first place, the judge was reluctant to apply any punishments upon the parties involved.
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Further more, as he had got his money back, this was used as a reason to deny a further application, the seeking of a full judicial review into what was and still is going on.
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It is on latter basis that now we are all off to the Supreme Court for further judgement regarding the denial of a judicial review and the non-application of any penalty on those now found in verdict to be guilty.
.
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Scenario.
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Imagine if you will, you being mugged for your money - the thief gets caught - admits they broke the law - the court agrees - the mugger gives the money back - so the judge says he won't be punished. That in essence is what has happened today.
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Justice has not been seen, to be properly administered according to legal punishment guidelines. If there is to be any further effective deterrent to stop further law breaking, punishments must be rendered and also seen to be rendered. As that has not effectively happened, off to the Supreme court we go. If this fails, off to the European court we go.
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This matter is not over.
.
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16,000
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16,000 people last year was sanctioned. Many of these were due to now court verdict decided, ILLEGAL actions by culprits involved. Those that were illegal sanctioned for their refusal to sign a private contract, can now take a legal case against those who administered what a court verdict has said, was an illegal deduction.
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Under the eyes of the law they MUST gain their money back - but to get it, they must at least probably initiate a legal case to do this.
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UnitedPeople will help all those that wish to do this, for free and show all how they can go through the courts using a free process to do it.
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This case has already cost them €60,000. Now their bill for trying to push one person into a contract he had the legal right to turn down, will go up another €100,000. Imagine if every person that was bullied previously or is being bullied RIGHT NOW, also takes a similar case...
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It is thought likely that the state will continue to act illegally - as will the two private companies. They will continue to each act illegally even - even though there's a court verdict that they have acted such - as they know that a lot of people after being illegal deducted or cut off, will not likely take a legal case against them.
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They knowing this, is a further example of how low they are willing to go and a further example of they individually and collectively will exploit the current JobPath programme so that two private companies can profit even more to the tune of more Millions of Euro.

Steve30x

Of course you can ignore the proof I posted too

http://www.unitedpeople.ie/the-jobpath-threat/

The Nutty M

splinter65 wrote: »

None of this is true.

One wonders what your motives are for saying something that is,quite clearly,untrue.

Steve30x

The Nutty M wrote: »

One wonders what your motives are for saying something that is,quite clearly,untrue.

He is either a Fine Gael troll or he works for Turas Nua or Seetec. He doesn't like it when people speak out against Job path and tell the actual truth.

Sephiroth_dude

Twelve Bar Blues wrote: »

Hi,

I would like to do a Payroll course, which the officer in DSP said would be fine, and I would qualify for funding. Jobseekers are allowed €500/year grant towards education, and I was told 'private courses' are included.
Then I was told as I'm on TNs' books, they must arrange the funding for me.
After 2weeks of waiting on callbacks, I received an email yesterday saying NO.
The guts of the reason given was "Unfortunately private courses such as this one, are not ones we can refer you on to and cover / part cover the costs.
If you get a guaranteed job offer, on the condition that you complete this course, we may be able to review this at that time."

Today my intent is to get to someone in DSP to assist me. Surely being with TN does not negate my rights?

Does anyone have any advice please?

thanks,
Twelve Bar Blues

So you want to try and get yourself some new skills and better yourself for chances of employment and this crowd are stopping you, unbelievable.

Steve30x

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

So you want to try and get yourself some new skills and better yourself for chances of employment and this crowd are stopping you, unbelievable.

This is how they work. The very first day at Turas Nua last june there was a Turas Nua rep and the manager of our local Social Welfare office giving speeches there. We were told we can not in any circumstances take any schemes (CE Schemes , Gateway etc) or do any courses. We just do the two hour courses they give every few months and do what we have been doing all along. Apply for jobs online and hand out CV's. Turas Nua is in our twon with two and a half years. They haven't got a job for one person in the town yet.

humberklog

The bit about Jeff Rudd investigating this for 2 years is untrue. It's a lie pushed by a well known liar (Jeff Rudd, his shenanigans can be easily looked up on a thread in the Political Cafe). Jeff has been on about Seetec on his political page since they tried to get him back to work- he's been unemployed for 10 years+.

Jeff didn't take a case against the DSP. Damien Fagan did. Jeff assisted Damien- exactly how is unclear. Damien Fagan isn't on record confirming Jeff's exact role.

I'm not saying what Jeff is saying is wrong with regards to people's contact with Seetec etc. I simply don't know. But I would caution people about believing anything coming from Jeff Rudd. He's stung and mislead a lot of people over the years and he's intent on doing it into the future.

There is a large back up of his previous antics on Boards.ie.

whippet

It would also be worth thinking about Jeff’s real intentions ... he is campaigning for the rights of people to keep their Job Seekers benifet even if they have no intention of seeking work.

He has spent a decade unemployed and yet feels that he needs no help with his CV or in looking for work.

Anyone who questions him is labelled a troll, FG supporter or of being Denis O’Brien.

Unfortunately as there is such a cohort of people who are unwilling to seek gainful employment the government had to introduce something like JobPath to speerate the can’t work from the won’t work and as with anything introduced by government and the civil service it becomes a mess.

Sephiroth_dude

whippet wrote: »

It would also be worth thinking about Jeff’s real intentions ... he is campaigning for the rights of people to keep their Job Seekers benifet even if they have no intention of seeking work.

He has spent a decade unemployed and yet feels that he needs no help with his CV or in looking for work.

Anyone who questions him is labelled a troll, FG supporter or of being Denis O’Brien.

Unfortunately as there is such a cohort of people who are unwilling to seek gainful employment the government had to introduce something like JobPath to speerate the can’t work from the won’t work and as with anything introduced by government and the civil service it becomes a mess.

Is this the same guy?

http://www.thejournal.ie/united-people-jeff-rudd-new-political-party-direct-democracy-ireland-2332823-Sep2015/

humberklog

^^yes.

Owryan

Also if you read up on the judgement, he didn't actually win any case. Judge ruled that since the claimant got his money there was no case to answer.

But in typical ruddish this was twisted to suit his narrative. Apparently he is now taking a case that does not exist to the courts, one has to ask how he plans to fund this on the dole.

Imagine if he put the same effort into a job as he has into avoiding getting a job

whippet

It seems jeff has been reading here !!

splinter65

Steve30x wrote: »

Its very very true.

It’s not true it’s lies. But please. Go along with Rudd if that what you want to do. It’s a free country after all.
Come back though and let us know exactly how you get on.

splinter65

The Nutty M wrote: »

One wonders what your motives are for saying something that is,quite clearly,untrue.

My motives are to help people avoid being lured down a blind alley with Jeff Rudd. A blind alley which may result in them having their benefits cut or even stopped.
But you go down there if you like, no one is stopping you at all.

Plugguy

Twelve Bar Blues wrote: »

Hi,

I would like to do a Payroll course, which the officer in DSP said would be fine, and I would qualify for funding. Jobseekers are allowed €500/year grant towards education, and I was told 'private courses' are included.
Then I was told as I'm on TNs' books, they must arrange the funding for me.
After 2weeks of waiting on callbacks, I received an email yesterday saying NO.
The guts of the reason given was "Unfortunately private courses such as this one, are not ones we can refer you on to and cover / part cover the costs.
If you get a guaranteed job offer, on the condition that you complete this course, we may be able to review this at that time."

Today my intent is to get to someone in DSP to assist me. Surely being with TN does not negate my rights?

Does anyone have any advice please?

thanks,
Twelve Bar Blues

Unfortunately I suspect that when you go to DSP they will tell you that it is up to Turas Nua now that you are with them. I hope I am wrong.

Tenigate

Op, you're not entitled to funding for private courses.

Nomis21

Tenigate wrote: »

Op, you're not entitled to funding for private courses.

Yes you are. Up to 500 Euro per year.

Twelve Bar Blues

Plugguy wrote: »

Unfortunately I suspect that when you go to DSP they will tell you that it is up to Turas Nua now that you are with them. I hope I am wrong.

I really hope this is wrong too. Couldn't get through to anyone, will start calling again Mon. Whatever the outcome, I'll update here.

humberklog

Steve30x wrote: »

Its very very true.

Hey Steve, the guy you quote and believe in is the same person that thinks his house was broken into by the government. Jeff's evidence was that wires were loose on the back of his computer.

Just saying- the guy you believe in believes the government broke into his house to check his computer. His evidence is some loose wires in the back of his computer.

I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm just making sure that's the same guy we're talking about.

splinter65

humberklog wrote: »

Hey Steve, the guy you quote and believe in is the same person that thinks his house was broken into by the government. Jeff's evidence was that wires were loose on the back of his computer.

Just saying- the guy you believe in believes the government broke into his house to check his computer. His evidence is some loose wires in the back of his computer.

I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm just making sure that's the same guy we're talking about.

Humberklog there’s none so blind as those who will not see. Your efforts to warn and dissuade the easily persuaded are noted though.

humberklog

splinter65 wrote: »

Humberklog there’s none so blind as those who will not see. Your efforts to warn and dissuade the easily persuaded are noted though.

That's why over on the Political Cafe forum we warn people about him. He's fooled a lot of good people.

splinter65

humberklog wrote: »

That's why over people about this person over on the Political Cafe forum. He's fooled a lot of good people.

A professional fantasist all his life.
Truth is that he’s one of the unemployable anyway.
Nutter.

jimmycrackcorm

Nomis21 wrote:

Yes you are. Up to 500 Euro per year.

There are conditions; you are not automatically entitled to this by default.

Johnnycanyon

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

So you want to try and get yourself some new skills and better yourself for chances of employment and this crowd are stopping you, unbelievable.

. That ass hole varadkar would rather pay the British scam organization than help out one of our own people to better themselves. But I suppose it's the blue shirts we are talking about and truth be known some of them are probably involved financially with this so called company.

PTH2009

made me apply for a job a few weeks back to a local niteclub for a bar position and have heard nothing back. it said experience essential but they told me I have it (I work part time in customer service role nothing to do with bar work)

I work varied hours a week but always fall under the 30 hour limit. I'm made do these courses which my advisor says 'be good for ya'

Christ

PTH2009

ever since I joined turas nua I have done courses like CV, manual handling etc and all the jobs I've applied for i have a success rate of Zero call backs and supposably the tutor siad I have a good CV that employers will be interested in

I'm in my part time job for a long time and I feel myself I want too move on but it's not working out sadly and TN are pressuring me a bit

Twelve Bar Blues

Hi,
Update on my quest for funding to do a Payroll Course.
TN turned down my request.
Local office said that I am absolutely still eligible for the funding and to tell TN who I was talking to and pass on the info they gave me.
TN wouldn't budge.
No Course for me.

Sephiroth_dude

Twelve Bar Blues wrote: »

Hi,
Update on my quest for funding to do a Payroll Course.
TN turned down my request.
Local office said that I am absolutely still eligible for the funding and to tell TN who I was talking to and pass on the info they gave me.
TN wouldn't budge.
No Course for me.

I suspose they get no commission for sending you on a course hence the struggle.

Twelve Bar Blues

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

I suspose they get no commission for sending you on a course hence the struggle.

The person in the DSP office I was speaking to said a couple of times that TN just want to get people into employment - doing courses isn't a priority...
The course would be over by now had I been supported by TN!

Johnnycanyon

Twelve Bar Blues wrote: »

The person in the DSP office I was speaking to said a couple of times that TN just want to get people into employment - doing courses isn't a priority...
The course would be over by now had I been supported by TN!

Like the last poster stated they are only interested in one thing... getting you into any employment they can an making money out of you..What I would do is contact your local TD and have them look into it..

mollygreene

Sephiroth_dude wrote:

I suspose they get no commission for sending you on a course hence the struggle.

Massively common misconception, the advisers do not receive ANY commission

Johnnycanyon

mollygreene wrote: »

Massively common misconception, the advisers do not receive ANY commission

True the advisers do not, but there are people sent over from the UK to harangue them into getting folk into any employment suitable or not for their customers just for the sole purpose of making profit for this English Co. This is why a lot of advisers have left TN and they are finding it hard to replace them.

Sephiroth_dude

mollygreene wrote: »

Massively common misconception, the advisers do not receive ANY commission

Never said they did , I meant the company gets it.

Avatar MIA

Not sure what benefit doing a payroll course would bring. But, if it did make you more employable why would TN stop you receiving funds, it's no skin off their nose.

Back to the course, what company is going to hire a person with no work experience in payroll to process payroll, which contains some of the company's most sensitive information? It is also one of the most important functions a company does that it cannot get wrong. For evidence see some of the threads where people think their payroll has been incorrectly calculated.

Companies hire people with work experience in this role OR internally hire someone (promotion) that they know they can trust.

Look at any payroll hire roles, they will expect experience

0ph0rce0

If you want a career you have to start somewhere right.

With some training you'll have a better chance landing an internship or some sort of junior role so you can progress and earn that experience. The course could also be a stepping stone to a higher level course.

How do you think people in any field get to where they are.

I know for me it all started with training.

Your post is garbage. Sure they should just get a job in the local shop and never bother.

Avatar MIA

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

If you want a career you have to start somewhere right.

With some training you'll have a better chance landing an internship or some sort of junior role so you can progress and earn that experience. The course could also be a stepping stone to a higher level course.

Your post is garbage. Sure they should just get a job in the local shop and never bother.

Garbage is it? How many payroll people have you hired, as many as me I wonder.

Yes, someone has to start their career somewhere. Doing a payroll course without experience is most likely (although admittedly not impossible) not going to get the OP a payroll position.

Their goal should be to get employment first of all, even on the production floor. Then do a payroll course and they would be a LOT more likely to get a position in payroll than coming straight off the streets.

But, if your experience is different please let us know.

0ph0rce0

Like I said. Garbage.

Sure why did I go to college or do any of those other training courses in another field I was interested in. Waste of time it seems.

I didn't have any work experience after my training but yet here we are years later in a role that I trained for. Starting at the bottom and working my way up. But it all started with the training course. Without that I wouldn't be in the role I am.

I've worked in shops, bars etc.. But when it came to applying for a role after my training none of this was on my CV.

Your post came across as why bother better yourself because it's a waste of time I doubt you'll get a job in that sector. Just work in on the floor and see what happens sure.

I do agree it's easier to get a job while in another. But this person we know nothing about and if they are coming "off the streets or not"

TheAnalyst_

I can see their point. I know a few guys that have spent the best part of 20 years hiding from employment with endless courses and training.

Avatar MIA

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Like I said. Garbage.

Sure why did I go to college or do any of those other training courses in another field I was interested in. Waste of time it seems.

I didn't have any work experience after my training but yet here we are years later in a role that I trained for. Starting at the bottom and working my way up. But it all started with the training course. Without that I wouldn't be in the role I am.

I've worked in shops, bars etc.. But when it came to applying for a role after my training none of this was on my CV.

Your post came across as why bother better yourself because it's a waste of time I doubt you'll get a job in that sector.

You're coming across clueless. What do you know about payroll and payroll departments?

For the record, I'm very much in favour of intern type roles, I started in my profession in a role that paid less than the dole, and some of my colleagues PAID to get the intern roles they worked in.

But, let's go crazy here, and refer to the OP's specific case... the payroll department. With no payroll experience. With no experience with the company. You know, that department that knows what the senior management earn.

Wanderer78

TheAnalyst_ wrote:

I can see their point. I know a few guys that have spent the best part of 20 years hiding from employment with endless courses and training.

Maybe they have some complicated undiagnosed issues that's preventing them from entering employment, which are common to the long term unemployed

0ph0rce0

How am I

If I've taken your post differently I apologise. Like I said your post came across as why bother that's it. I'm not arguing that you may or may not land a role with no experience. But you have to start somewhere.

Your making payroll out to be some really high level position when in fact it's a 30k -35k average job If even. Much lower salary in some companies. Its all automatic now through software.

I've worked in a few companies and none of the payroll staff have or had any finance or accounting degrees.

Twelve Bar Blues

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Not sure what benefit doing a payroll course would bring. But, if it did make you more employable why would TN stop you receiving funds, it's no skin off their nose.

Back to the course, what company is going to hire a person with no work experience in payroll to process payroll, which contains some of the company's most sensitive information? It is also one of the most important functions a company does that it cannot get wrong. For evidence see some of the threads where people think their payroll has been incorrectly calculated.

Companies hire people with work experience in this role OR internally hire someone (promotion) that they know they can trust.

Look at any payroll hire roles, they will expect experience

I don't think that's wholly true. Have to start somewhere. I would not want to do a course unless I knew it would open opportunities for me.
I'm mainly looking for office admin roles, and a high majority of them require qualification, or experience, in payroll.

Do you think I just decided I need to do such a course without any reason or forethought?!

Avatar MIA

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

How am I

If I've taken your post differently I apologise. Like I said your post came across as why bother.

Your making payroll out to be some really high level position when in fact it's a 30k -35k average job If even. Much lower salary in some companies. Its all automatic now through software.

I've worked in a few companies and none of the payroll staff have or had any finance or accounting degrees.

It's the trust issue more than anything and the confidence that it's not going to be messed up.

I've hired external people into payroll roles, but they've had verifiable payroll experience. Or I've hired people that were already in the company and proved they'd have the capacity.

You certainly don't need a degree to work in payroll as the payroll software does a lot of the work, however there will be a significant amount of queries... 'I got €10 less in my payslip this week - why?' which will require knowledge, plus it cannot go wrong, employees will go ballistic and cause havoc, possibly downing tools if payroll isn't done on time.

Will this be trusted to someone with no payroll, company experience even if they spend a week or so learning micropay? Not impossible, but unlikely.

Avatar MIA

Twelve Bar Blues wrote: »

I'm mainly looking for office admin roles, and a high majority of them require qualification, or experience, in payroll.

I think you'll find it's and experience in payroll.

Yes, coming externally they'll also want the qualification.

Twelve Bar Blues

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Maybe they have some complicated undiagnosed issues that's preventing them from entering employment, which are common to the long term unemployed

No undiagnosed issues! If it matters - my most recent role, which I was in for 9 years, was made redundant and I am finding it very difficult to get restarted.
Applying and getting no calls/emails back.
I have been in employment my whole adult life, not a long-term unemployed type.
I do have two opportunities in the next couple of weeks that I'm very excited and optimistic about. Fingers-crossed.