Advertisement
How to add spoiler tags, edit posts, add images etc. How to - a user's guide to the new version of Boards
Mods please check the Moderators Group for an important update on Mod tools. If you do not have access to the group, please PM Niamh. Thanks!

Feedback on the current Feedback format

18910111214»

Comments



  • We can always pare it back if you guys think we've overdone it

    :P

    Seriously though, I'll leave the thread open for another couple of days for further comment. Mark from the office is now on his hols for a short while, and I suspect he's got a better idea of which buttons to press than me, so we'll probably wait for his return before implementing this




  • I too think these are worthy ideas.




  • Beasty wrote: »
    This is a case of putting the cart before the horse. You cannot decide how something will be implemented until you know what it is.

    It isn't, having a framework in place for a feedback and implementation process doesn't require foreknowledge of the feedback that may be taken aboard.

    You create a plan using the framework, but you need to have the framework in place first.

    It's a fairly elementary concept in management in fairness.

    The DRP process has a framework despite every individual case being different.




  • It isn't, having a framework in place for a feedback and implementation process doesn't require foreknowledge of the feedback that may be taken aboard.

    You create a plan using the framework, but you need to have the framework in place first.

    It's a fairly elementary concept in management in fairness.

    The DRP process has a framework despite every individual case being different.
    If you have full time paid employees implementing all of this then fine. But we haven't. Yes there are full time staff, but they have plenty of other responsibilities around here

    May I also suggest you have a look at the threads we've seen in Feedback, both its current and former format, and maybe you could suggest a framework to accommodate all of that?




  • Beasty wrote: »
    If you have full time paid employees implementing all of this then fine. But we haven't. Yes there are full time staff, but they have plenty of other responsibilities around here

    May I also suggest you have a look at the threads we've seen in Feedback, both its current and former format, and maybe you could suggest a framework to accommodate all of that?

    That's a separate argument. You stated that a framework was putting the cart before the horse. It isn't, and now you've changed your tune to pure snarkiness.

    That's more than a little disingenuous, and if the excuse is "our full-time staff are too busy" then that's a reflection on the relative importance of feedback/the future of boards.ie that the powers-that-be have compared to the (vocal) users in this thread.

    Either way, you're wrong on the cart before the horse part and getting snarky about it is just juvenile.

    I'll add, the point of developing a framework is that overall it requires less work.


  • Advertisement


  • I'd have to agree... it's all very well asking for Feedback (and the suggestions above about how that's to be done are a welcome move) - BUT if there's no structure around what's to be done with that Feedback (eg: open discussion of the top 5 asks/issues in dedicated threads, review among Admins, review with staff, revert to the users with updates, decision and implementation plan if appropriate - ALL OF WHICH needs timelines beside it) then the entire exercise is somewhat pointless, no?




  • Apologies for repeating my earlier point. Boards is not a multinational entity with hundreds of consumer facing employees dealing with feedback and customer complaints. You cannot expect (well clearly you do) volunteers to devote time putting that sort of structure around what is a very diverse range of topics. Who determines what the "top 5" asks are? Over what period? Who determines when something should be done? With what resource?

    Technical issues aside, which are not the remit of Admins, CMods or Mods, how can we structure "solutions" to be delivered in a particular way and a specific timescale when we have no idea of who's going to be online from one day to the next?

    Anyway, please feel free to continue that part of the discussion, but I will be closing this thread later on in line with my earlier comments




  • Ok, so you're not even bothering to read posts before replying with inane "we're not a multinational" comments.

    That's probably a better summation of this entire thread than the guff you posted in #386

    P.S. a little bit more thought before sarcastic replies and you may have actually googled what a framework is, because your posts continue to show you neither understand them nor their purpose. I've worked with companies that have less employees than boards.ie and use frameworks for many aspects of their business. But by all means, neither apologise for your unwarranted snark nor make any attempt to understand the point of people who disagree with you.




  • They're under no obligation to implement anything in fairness.

    A definite yes or no now and again on long running issues wouldn't go astray though.




  • Beasty wrote: »
    Apologies for repeating my earlier point. Boards is not a multinational entity with hundreds of consumer facing employees dealing with feedback and customer complaints. You cannot expect (well clearly you do) volunteers to devote time putting that sort of structure around what is a very diverse range of topics. Who determines what the "top 5" asks are? Over what period? Who determines when something should be done? With what resource?

    Technical issues aside, which are not the remit of Admins, CMods or Mods, how can we structure "solutions" to be delivered in a particular way and a specific timescale when we have no idea of who's going to be online from one day to the next?

    Anyway, please feel free to continue that part of the discussion, but I will be closing this thread later on in line with my earlier comments

    The above suggestions I made were elements that should make up a framework - exact specifics, timelines etc would all be agreed and defined.. but they should be there from day 1 is the point :)

    With regards the volunteers thing... ask for more volunteers! I'll say it again.. you really seem focused on the structures and processes (a little too much IMO as it is indeed not a multinational -it's a discussion forum), but then throw out the "we don't have the resources" line when the obvious follow-up questions (like above) are raised.

    You can't have it both ways :)


  • Advertisement


  • While I think the initial response is good (and appreciated), I would have to agree with the other recent posters that it doesn't actually solve the problem of visibility that feedback is actually being listened too.




  • Here's an example of a framework from the forum requests guideline:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057601382

    Here's an example of a framework from the DRP:

    DRP_Flowchart.jpg

    Both are agnostic to what is actually going through the process. No DRP can ever be fully anticipated, and each forum request is unique. Specific timelines aren't necessary, being able to fully anticipate characteristics aren't necessary.

    A (completely and absolutely inadequate) framework

    Thread created
    >
    Thread reaches <x> replies / or remains active and current for <y> days
    >
    admin contacts site owners/developers to see if idea/suggestion is feasible/acceptable
    >
    return to original thread with findings and explanation. If a negative response close thread, if a positive response continue
    >
    create a stickied poll, original thread title edited with reference to poll with redirect in first post
    >
    If poll reaches <minimum threshold> votes with <minimum> percentage in favour of a proposition,
    >
    a basic feasibility report is commissioned with a timeframe of <c> weeks
    >
    blah blah blah testing and feedback stuff

    It doesn't require a multinational to spend a few hours talking with owners and relevant employees to come up with a basic framework everyone can sign off on, your flippancy and sarcasm notwithstanding.





  • Here's an example of a framework from the DRP:


    Both are agnostic to what is actually going through the process. No DRP can ever be fully anticipated, and each forum request is unique. Specific timelines aren't necessary, being able to fully anticipate characteristics aren't necessary.

    A (completely and absolutely inadequate) framework

    Thread created
    >
    Thread reaches <x> replies / or remains active and current for <y> days
    >
    admin contacts site owners/developers to see if idea/suggestion is feasible/acceptable
    >
    return to original thread with findings and explanation. If a negative response close thread, if a positive response continue
    >
    create a stickied poll, original thread title edited with reference to poll with redirect in first post
    >
    If poll reaches <minimum threshold> votes with <minimum> percentage in favour of a proposition,
    >
    a basic feasibility report is commissioned with a timeframe of <c> weeks
    >
    blah blah blah testing and feedback stuff

    It doesn't require a multinational to spend a few hours talking with owners and relevant employees to come up with a basic framework everyone can sign off on, your flippancy and sarcasm notwithstanding.

    Putting to one side the forum request example, which I will come back to

    Your suggestions above simply would not work for Feedback. No-one is going to commit to going through that sort of procedure, other than possibly full-time staff

    The DRP is process driven, because it deals with only one type of issue. Feedback covers a whole range of issues

    Coming back to your first example, you quoted a post that we would usually term the Charter. Yes it had specific guidelines, but again that is because Forum Creation requests lend themselves to a single format. Feedback simply does not

    We will certainly work on a Charter though - every forum has one of those, and if you look in the main Feedback forum you will see what has been in place

    Equally we still need to do that work for the "new" Feedback. That's one of the reasons I am saying we will close the thread later on, otherwise we risk someone trying to move the goalposts while we are still constructing them.




  • The point of feedback is to change aspects of how the forum is run and/or operates. This will inevitably require the involvement of employees and potentially, agreement from owners.

    However, having a framework in place for the feedback process is a non-starter because it will require some involvement of employees.

    Are you aware of how many times you've changed your argument at this point? Anyway!

    1) A framework isn't guidelines. Posts 3,4,5,6,7 and 8 represent a framework turned into a specific process.

    2) Stating that DRP deals with only one type of issue as as reductive as stating that Feedback will deal with only one type of issue.

    To summarise your arguments against any sort of stated feedback framework, any feedback process is required to be:

    ad-hoc
    require a minimum amount of involvement from admins
    require no involvement from employees


    If you can't even be consistent in your arguments, I suppose it is probably too much to expect that you would be behind some sort of future feedback framework that would at least ensure a consistent approach to how feedback is treated.




  • Beasty, if there's no format for how good feedback ideas are implemented or at least discussed, why would anyone submit a good feedback idea?

    Seems like a lot of work being done here to create a noise-box.




  • Surely they'll use the method they always used.
    Some poor sod is given the task of reading through feedback,any good ideas get a nod the rest gets ignored

    Amazed anybody thinks they're going to dedicate an actual process involving time and discussion.




  • kneemos wrote: »
    Surely they'll use the method they always used.
    Some poor sod is given the task of reading through feedback,any good ideas get a nod the rest gets ignored
    Amazed anybody thinks they're going to dedicate an actual process involving time and discussion.
    kneemos wrote: »
    They're under no obligation to implement anything in fairness.
    A definite yes or no now and again on long running issues wouldn't go astray though.
    pretty much my thoughts, give posters a place to bitch and moan, and shur if anything positive comes out of it thats a bonus

    (and I don't mean that in a bad way. people just love to gossip and vent, look at any thread in the Talk-to forums that gets more than a couple of posts, or the couple of 'open discussions' in this forum..)




  • I know it's a phrase that's often rolled out here, but we are volunteers

    It's not my "job" to commit other volunteers around here to anything. Equally it's not my job to do the full time employees jobs for them

    Do I still think this suggestion is putting the cart before the horse?

    Absolutely!

    Now let me give you an example. This thread arose out of a thread in AH that I contributed a great deal to. In that thread certain valid points were made. Others were possibly discounted. However I was pretty sure I was the closest Admin to all those discussions

    I set out on at least a couple of occasions what I saw was an "action plan", with timelines to provide updates

    To date I have "delivered" on pretty much everything I've committed to in that thread and indeed this one

    I have been able to do that because I made personal commitments to do so based on what I had seen in the thread with an understanding of my role and capabilities around here

    Now take a look at the Feedback threads we've seen under the current format. Then look at those we had under the "prior" format. Can anyone tell me how we can put any structure around that level of feedback that goes across such a very wide range of topics and perceived issues? I'm certainly not committing to deliver on that front, as I've got many other priorities (indeed most of them arising from comments in the AH thread)

    There is no one size fits all for any of this type of discussion. All I can do is what I've done in this and the AH thread. I will do everything I can reasonably do to deliver on any commitment/assurances I give in these threads. I cannot speak for anyone else. Only they can do that. I cannot anticipate the type of discussions we will have in Feedback and therefore I cannot put any structure around how such feedback will be dealt with.

    All I can do is try to deliver on my commitments, but am not prepared to make any such commitments until I see precisely what it is I am committing to. From my perspective that requires the horse to be out there in front.




  • Shut it down Beasty, there's no need for a Feedback forum if the feedback goes nowhere. Either Boards.ie wants user input upon which it might act on occasionally or it doesn't.




  • Just to confirm the new set-up is now live in the main Feedback forum

    See here

    Mark has updated The Charter - please read it before posting

    Thanks


  • Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement