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Feedback on the current Feedback format

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  • Beasty wrote: »
    I appreciate "Help Desk" is not a forum title that grabs the attention for posters who may have a specific issue with a forum or moderator/moderation. That's why I made a suggestion of having a separate forum covering "Other Disputes" in the OP (perhaps in parallel with the DRP). Unfortunately that did not attract much support from posters in this thread

    I think it is. Feedback is usually where a company asks for opinions or reviews of their product or service. Helpdesk is the obvious natural name for people who need help including with a Mod or a forum.

    We are used to the distinction, in Board's speak (well I still get confused) but the average user will think that Help is for help.




  • It's a very easy point to make and be in favour of when it won't cost you anything if it goes wrong. Try taking that approach when you have your own money on the line and I'd say most peoples favouring that approach would change rather quickly.


    Never heard of a discussion site being sued for anything.
    Given the stuff on other sites Boards is like a nuns underwear.




  • Is the lack of user interaction with boards feedback a worry for the company or if purposefully, in my view, having been made so sterile, resulting in people having lost interest, not seeing much point, in giving feedback, the 'mission accomplished? In an out of sight out of mind, less hassle way, which has similarly killed forums, or is it just bad administration?
    I know of no other site where feedback is so clinical, like a complaint or query might lead to libel action. RTE has a freer comment section.

    It's a shame. The goal seems to be to create as quiet a life as possible rather than provide discussion forums.




  • It's a very easy point to make and be in favour of when it won't cost you anything if it goes wrong. Try taking that approach when you have your own money on the line and I'd say most peoples favouring that approach would change rather quickly.

    Surely an expression that opinions etc voiced by posters are owned by the posters is all that would be needed. It will be part of the agreement made by signing up.




  • kneemos wrote: »
    Never heard of a discussion site being sued for anything.
    Given the stuff on other sites Boards is like a nuns underwear.
    Boards has been in court at least once if not multiple times as a defendant and the cost is not usually paid in full by the opposite side costing 50k+ per case in legal fees (for a site losing money that is a lot of money).
    LorenzoB wrote: »
    Surely an expression that opinions etc voiced by posters are owned by the posters is all that would be needed. It will be part of the agreement made by signing up.
    Does not matter under Irish law; Boards is held as responsible as well as they are counted as having published it by allowing a user to post it when suing.


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  • The option was there many many years ago to incorporate (if desired) and host boards.ie abroad. It was decided against, but not for reasons related to the community.

    It wasn't as if there weren't shed loads of other forums doing exactly the same thing!




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  • Boards.ie Employee


    We're off on a tangent again.

    In an ideal world, defamation law would be written differently for starters; it's not on our side...Why other sites take a different approach, I don't know, I'm afraid. I just know that I'd like for us to be able to keep the lights on and servers ticking here.




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  • Boards.ie Employee


    "Feedback on the current Feedback format" is the thread title.

    I'm not privy to any conversations being held within the offices of other sites regarding defamation, comments that could cause issues, lawsuits, etc. All I know is what we try to do here on Boards.


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  • Beasty wrote: »
    Recent posts show a big failure of the prior Feedback format. Despite my warnings to get back on topic posters are still going over a point that has absolutely no relevance here. Posters would hijack any feedback thread to get their point over. There was little structure to feedback, because Admins did not want to be seen to be "controlling" discussions. The main points being made were lost in the "noise"

    We've been told by posters in this thread to more actively moderate Feedback discussions. So what do you want us to do? Do You want me to close this thread? Do you want me to thread of forum-ban the offenders?

    I've indicated on two occasions where that particular issue can be covered.

    Now everyone - back on topic which is the feedback format

    Sorry now, but this thread offered robust feedback on the topic at hand. You've then allowed it to remain open well beyond it being a going concern (a sure sign that there was nothing left to say) in the current context where people have no platform they wish to use for feedback and - shock horror - it drifts a little off topic. For a relative handful of posts when compared to the total thread length.

    The desperation to hang onto any reason to deny the feedback you have actually received on this topic is very noticeable indeed.




  • I'm out.. I see that a post I made last night and subsequent replies have been unceremoniously deleted today. No doubt because it was "off topic" to the limited scope this thread wants to focus on (and yet ironically entirely missing the point by doing so).

    The issues around Feedback and how it's received and acted upon have been well documented over the last few years with a LOT of constructive, well-thought out posts from people. I'd like to think things will get better, but the above has left a sour taste in my mouth, so I will leave ye at it.


  • Boards.ie Employee


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I'm out.. I see that a post I made last night and subsequent replies have been unceremoniously deleted today. No doubt because it was "off topic" to the limited scope this thread wants to focus on (and yet ironically entirely missing the point by doing so).

    The issues around Feedback and how it's received and acted upon have been well documented over the last few years with a LOT of constructive, well-thought out posts from people. I'd like to think things will get better, but the above has left a sour taste in my mouth, so I will leave ye at it.

    They been moved to a separate thread where it is more relevant: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057854093




  • They been moved to a separate thread where it is more relevant: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057854093

    Fair enough, but a redirect or PM would have been nice :) Do you see my point?


  • Boards.ie Employee


    That's fair. I was also writing up a response in the other thread. Should have re-ordered the way I worked through things.




  • Beasty wrote: »
    On the specifics of the Feedback Format going forward, Mark in the office is working on something that I've seen, and indeed would support, but we need the input of a few more at Admin (and possibly Office) levels before putting any details up here. I don't think it should be too far off though

    Without going into specifics what format is that response expected to take? For people to have faith in the process they must be able to see what the process is. The worst thing that can happen is that we can only see this big thread get dumped into a black box and out comes a "solution". The transparency should be in why a solution is proposed, what is happening in that black box? It doesn't have to be extremely detailed.

    How is this feedback being reported back?
    Are admins reading it directly or is there a summary/list created?
    Can we see the feedback that has been taken onboard and how it has informed the proposed solution?
    Are changes going to happen without any warning?
    Are proposals going to be brought back for further feedback?

    All that we can do on this side is give the feedback and propose ideas, but you are driving the conversation. Now that the thread has run for a while, propose a solution based on the feedback given and let the discussion be about that.

    I don't think there is a perfect solution, but improvements can definitely be made and this has probably already taken up enough of your time as it is, so thanks for sticking with it this far.




  • Dermo wrote: »

    I don't think there is a perfect solution, but improvements can definitely be made and this has probably already taken up enough of your time as it is, so thanks for sticking with it this far.
    I agree with this point. Equally there have been differing views expressed on certain points, and we're never going to please everyone

    There is a discussion thread in the Admin forum where both Admins and Office staff have been covering the points as raised

    We've been working on a proposal that seeks to address those points, or at least the ones relevant to the Feedback format itself, but also other areas such as Help Desk and Site Development, which are also areas of site-wide feedback. I do think we need to provide more clarification on how and when these other forums should be used.

    I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have read through the whole of this thread as it has evolved

    I have indicated a couple of times that I think (hope!) we are very near a stage where we can share some proposals. We should allow some further discussion ahead of any implementation, and it makes sense (certainly to me) to do all of that within this thread




  • A week has slipped on since the last post and it's now six weeks since the topic was opened. What's the timetable from here?




  • LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    A week has slipped on since the last post and it's now six weeks since the topic was opened. What's the timetable from here?

    Simple, let everything die down and wait for the next time frustration among Boards' dwindling userbase boils over to make empty promises of change. :rolleyes:


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  • Well maybe if you just wait a little while longer. If we had wanted to adopt that approach hatrickpatrick I suspect the thread would have been closed some time ago. Of course we are all fully aware this is not going away, but equally we want something that we believe will work , which I am certainly of the view will have some restrictions applied (as I've previously suggested)

    I appreciate though that I have previously indicated a proposal was imminent. Unfortunately some of the Admins have not been around much. What I'll pledge here and now though is I'll draft up a response in the Admin forum. I would like the office staff to comment before posting it here, and they may well now be away for the Easter break. I've a few other things I've bee dealing with, both here and in real life, but I'll certainly draft it up over the break, with a view to us posting it here probably on Tuesday




  • Beasty wrote: »
    Well maybe if you just wait a little while longer. If we had wanted to adopt that approach hatrickpatrick I suspect the thread would have been closed some time ago. Of course we are all fully aware this is not going away, but equally we want something that we believe will work , which I am certainly of the view will have some restrictions applied (as I've previously suggested)

    I appreciate though that I have previously indicated a proposal was imminent. Unfortunately some of the Admins have not been around much. What I'll pledge here and now though is I'll draft up a response in the Admin forum. I would like the office staff to comment before posting it here, and they may well now be away for the Easter break. I've a few other things I've bee dealing with, both here and in real life, but I'll certainly draft it up over the break, with a view to us posting it here probably on Tuesday

    I'm honestly not trying to be a dick, but you have to realise that as someone who's been on Boards for more than ten years and has watched it decline over time while user frustrations have been repeatedly ignored, I'm genuinely just calling things as I see them. Nine times out of ten, the administration has already made up its own mind and the users' views are "taken into account", but never actually acted upon in any meaningful way whatsoever.

    I'd absolutely love to be wrong about it in this instance, but I hope you can at least see where my cynicism is coming from. From where I'm sitting, there's been a fairly broad consensus over the last number of years that Boards has sacrificed pretty much everything about its previous organic culture in the pursuit of a sanitised, curated image of itself - and no amount of user griping has ever succeeded in turning back the clock on that. The closure of the Feedback forum was, unless you can tell me differently, very clearly a response to the vast number of daily complaints which were posted here about discussion being too stifled by unnecessary micromanagement and tone policing, and I highly suspect that whatever new incarnation of it emerges will be similarly designed to hide this widely held user viewpoint from public view.

    None of that is aimed at you personally. The transformation of Boards from an open discussion forum for users into an ideological echo chamber of the administrations' liking has been going on for the best part of the last decade, and to be honest I'm not even sure how long you've been a staff member so it's incredibly likely that it all predates your own involvement. But please understand when I and others are coming from when we say that, when we see a mod or admin posting "great feedback guys, we're taking it on board and we'll get back to you"..... Well, to put it mildly, we're not holding out breaths. :(




  • As I indicated, just give it a few more days. I've drafted that note, but need to give the other Admins and Office staff time to feed in their own comments

    Please note though, I am certainly not a "staff member" (the site could never afford to pay me anyway ;))




  • Beasty wrote: »

    Please note though, I am certainly not a "staff member" (the site could never afford to pay me anyway ;))

    Right.




  • We've been considering all the feedback in this thread, and have now settled on the following proposed format for Feedback going forward

    1. We will close the "Open Feedback" forum and return to Feedback threads being run within the Feedback Forum itself.

    2. The Feedback Forum will return to open posting, subject to the following:
    a) Only posters who have over 100 posts on the site and have been a registered member for over 3 months will be permitted to post. Anyone closing their account will be subject to this restriction on any new account opened. The Help Desk will still be available to anyone wishing to raise an issue but who does not satisfy these conditions
    b) For any Feedback thread that may be specific to a particular forum, anyone banned from that forum cannot post in the thread while they remain banned

    3. Generally we would encourage mods to run local forum-specific Feedback threads on a regular basis (perhaps every couple of years or so), certainly for the more active forums. If a (non-banned) poster feels a feedback thread is overdue then they should request the local mods (or failing that CMods) to initiate one. That may be to invite general feedback on the forum, or to address a specific issue. Forum-specific threads should not be started in the Feedback forum, unless the OP has gone through that process. Posters should not start their own "feedback" thread within a forum without the agreement of local Mods or CMods

    4. The main purpose of the Feedback forum is to provide site-wide feedback, be that comments on particular issues that have a site-wide relevance, or suggestions on ways to improve user experience on the site

    5. We will re-introduce the thanks button, but please be aware that Feedback is not a "popularity contest". General support here does not automatically mean suggestions will be implemented. There may be system, legal or other issues that prevent the site from adopting certain practices. We will though endeavour to provide explanations if there is such a limitation

    6. If anyone has a specific dispute in connection with a forum, or a mod action, Feedback is not the place to air it. Help Desk and the Dispute Resolution forums are set up to deal with such complaints. Any threads started here on such issues will be moved to the more relevant forum. Both Help Desk and the DRP will get the attention of CMods and if necessary Admins to help resolve issues

    7. Please use the Site Development forum for any technical issues/queries. This forum perhaps has not been used by both users and indeed Admins/Office staff to deal with such issues as much as it should have, but activity in the forum has started to pick up recently. The Admin team will get more actively involved and alert Site Development staff to issues they need to address

    8. Issues raised in Feedback need to be clearly set out in the OP. Replies must be on-topic, and users should not use existing threads simply to highlight their own issues that do not relate to the underlying topic.

    9. We will be more pro-active in moderating Feedback threads at Admin level. We will give consideration to identifying additional Admins with specific responsibility for Feedback. Equally we will aim at having at least one Admin available to moderate a thread who is not actively involved in the underlying discussion. Anyone who we consider is getting involved in Feedback threads simply to post negative comments in areas they have shown little or no interest in across the site may find themselves banned from the Feedback forum or a specific thread.

    10. We may introduce thread-specific rules for certain threads. For example if we find a threads being dominated by a small number of posters, who's comments may appear to drown out those made by other users, we could introduce a limit on the number of posts an individual can make over a set period (eg we could apply a one post per day limit)

    We appreciate some posters have requested a return to a completely "open" Feedback format, where pretty much anything goes. Our view remains that such a format results in a lot of noise potentially drowning out valid feedback, as well as posters simply trolling the Feedback format, trying to find anything to complain about. We believe this proposal delivers what posters are requesting but in a way that delivers constructive feedback.

    We will leave this thread open for further comments for a week or so, with a view to introducing these changes, subject to any further amendments resulting from those comments, shortly thereafter




  • Better outcome than I anticipated, cheers.




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  • Seem to be missing the section which deals with how good valid site-worthy feedback ideas will be actually implemented Beasty, best get it sorted out before it's needed.




  • TherapyBoy wrote: »
    Seem to be missing the section which deals with how good valid site-worthy feedback ideas will be actually implemented Beasty, best get it sorted out before it's needed.
    This is a case of putting the cart before the horse. You cannot decide how something will be implemented until you know what it is.


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  • Just noticed the update on Feedback. That's excellent news and it is more than I expected. I'm glad to be proven wrong on that issue!


This discussion has been closed.
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