Airbnb, guest up to something

QuickQuestion3

I have a house in a private built up estate on airbnb for a while now and all has mostly worked out well. It's a good bit of extra work, but so far so good.

Most guests that request bookings are new to airbnb (just signed up) and as a result have no reviews. During the winter months I wasn't going to be fussy.

Anyway, I believe on a few occasions now that my place was booked by working girls. I don't want to give too many details, but I was about 60% sure after a few days the first time, I was told I was paranoid, but it was confirmed after they left. The second time, I meet the girls and sure enough the same girls were advising on the internet a few hours later.

Both times the place was taken care of and they didn't leave much of a mess. While I would prefer not to be hosting these types of people, it's quite hard to know beforehand. When I do become aware, I don't want to face them down and kick them out. They know where my house is afterall.

I really just want to know if I could be held in any way responsible for what goes on if this happens again.

Eric Cartman

Ive done work for some Airbnb hosts and this happens, a lot. It's almost impossible to know beforehand as they tend to dump accounts and create new ones every single time they do this.

In general they keep the place clean and only stay for 1 night or a weekend. I don't believe you can get in trouble for it but I would probably report it to the gardai if you have suspicions when guests check in. They may knock round.

n!ghtmancometh

Not bothered about forcing your neighbours to live nextdoor to a knocking shop, and all the weirdos that attracts no? how would you feel if your current residence was located next to one? another selfish landlord, worried about liabilities rather than neighbours or potential for girls (working knowingly on his premises) to be sex trafficked.

Hitman3000

QuickQuestion3 wrote:

I really just want to know if I could be held in any way responsible for what goes on if this happens again.

I hope you are, must be great for the other residents in the estate.

Heres Johnny

Anyone I know that uses knocking shops is very discreet about it and won't cause any hassle to the neighbours!!

QuickQuestion3

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Not bothered about forcing your neighbours to live nextdoor to a knocking shop, and all the weirdos that attracts no? how would you feel if your current residence was located next to one? another selfish landlord, worried about liabilities rather than neighbours or potential for girls (working knowingly on his premises) to be sex trafficked.

As I said, I would prefer for this not to happen, and I am in no way forcing anyone to live next door to anyone. As was pointed out, the booking was for a few days and it was only after they left it was confirmed. When I had suspicions, I drove by several times and didn't notice anything up or any visitors.

As a landlord, I am not allowed to enter the building without permission.

Fol20

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Not bothered about forcing your neighbours to live nextdoor to a knocking shop, and all the weirdos that attracts no? how would you feel if your current residence was located next to one? another selfish landlord, worried about liabilities rather than neighbours or potential for girls (working knowingly on his premises) to be sex trafficked.

Ignore this post OP, the fact you are posting here indicates you are cautious about it. How exactly is he selfish, he has a mortgage to pay and he isn’t exactly advertising only work girl need apply. At the end of day how many people actually care about their neighbors now days unless your in the country. Most people don’t even know the name of their neighbors and just say hi In passing.

Sunny Dayz

I’ve never used air bnb myself so excuse me if I get it wrong. But I’m assuming you don’t live in this house and you advertise it on Airbnb as not being owner occupied. If it was advertised as owner occupied, it would put off those who want to use it for the purposes you outlined in your first post.

endacl

QuickQuestion3 wrote: »

As a landlord, I am not allowed to enter the building without permission.

They're not tenants. They're paying guests. Same as in a hotel.

You're not a landlord.

Effects

endacl wrote: »

They're not tenants. They're paying guests. Same as in a hotel.

You're not a landlord.

He’s not a hotelier either, as you seem to suggest.

The_Conductor

endacl wrote: »

They're not tenants. They're paying guests. Same as in a hotel.

You're not a landlord.

70% of airbnb lettings in Ireland are rooms in properties- rather than entire properties. The OP may not be a landlord- and the person renting the property may technically be a licensee- however, current Irish legislation does not address airbnb situations in a proper manner- and is more concerned with tax and or how it affects the formal rental market- than it is the short term letting market.

The OP would be well advised to turn on the verified feature on Airbnb- and strictly only accept bookings from verified account holders.

There is a shocking problem with airbnb and prostitution in Ireland- which has been acknowledged by An Garda Síochána- however, in the absence of a formal complaint- their immediate response appears to be an automatic- 'its a civil matter between the complainant and the owner'.

Technically- there is absolutely nothing to stop any of the OP's neighbours from taking a civil case against the OP- for letting his property to prostitutes. Whether or not it would succeed- is anyone's guess- however, one way or the other- the only winners would be the solicitors.

The_Conductor

Guys- address the OP's post.
If you have some self-righteous indignation- take it elsewhere.
If you can't remain civil towards the OP or other posters- do not respond here.
There will be no get-out-of-jail-free cards for people who are abusive towards other posters.

4ensic15

The_Conductor wrote: »

70% of airbnb lettings in Ireland are rooms in properties- rather than entire properties. The OP may not be a landlord- and the person renting the property may technically be a licensee- however, current Irish legislation does not address airbnb situations in a proper manner- and is more concerned with tax and or how it affects the formal rental market- than it is the short term letting market.

The Residential Tenancies Act does not apply to lettings which are for the purposes of a holiday. No way are AirBnB guests tenants.

QuickQuestion3

Thanks everyone for the advice, even negative advice, it's good to see all sides.

Regarding the verified guest information. Only one out of the next ten bookings have provided gov ID to airbnb for verification, but all others have provided phone and email. So I'm not sure if this feature will help very much other than reducing possible guests.

I was thinking of maybe a fake security camera on the front of the building and mentioning that in the description. Not sure if this would help.

smunchkins

I'd suggest that you consider adjusting your booking settings to a 2 night minimum.
I have my own one up that no guest can book for just one night. It really isn't worth it if you're doing a proper changeover and giving the whole place a clean each time.
And as a side note, consider your "non-working girl" guests. I'd be really put off staying at a place if word got out it was used as a brothel occasionally. (Unlikely I know, but you found out somehow, so if you do get an over interested neighbour who feels powerless about the situation and approaches guests to warn them, you will have a problem). Are these people leaving positive reviews for you that would encourage other prostitutes to book? Plus is there any likelihood of some of their customers turning up when they are not there?
I suppose it is a question of cost benefit analysis. I'd strongly recommend upping your security requirements and verification for guests, even if you lose some bookings; if only for peace of mind and so you know who is in there. Otherwise you might arrive one day to find the place trashed.

QuickQuestion3

smunchkins wrote: »

I'd suggest that you consider adjusting your booking settings to a 2 night minimum.

Are these people leaving positive reviews for you that would encourage other prostitutes to book?

I'd strongly recommend upping your security requirements and verification for guests, even if you lose some bookings.

To be clear, I do not want these types of guests, I do not advertise looking for them and want to discourage them from booking.

I already have a two night minimum.

Their reviews in no way indicate that the house is friendly to their line of business. But I wouldn't be surprised is they have a WhatsApp group or something.

I already do my best to vet bookings and in both cases so far there were no alarm bells.

Hopefully this will stop now that the evenings are getting brighter as there would be little privacy for people calling to the house in daylight. Maybe that is just wishful thinking on my behalf.

the_syco

QuickQuestion3 wrote: »

As a landlord, I am not allowed to enter the building without permission.

Does it say that in the AirBnB rules, as you're not a "usual" landlord.

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

If it was advertised as owner occupied, it would put off those who want to use it for the purposes you outlined in your first post.

Occupied usually equals food, and/or faster response to issues.

Keep in mind that some people may come back for repeat business...

A fake visible camera (and a discrete real one nearby) for "security" may deter some customers, as well as allowing you to see if you get repeat business from the same people (even though multiple fake accounts would book under different names.

Lumen

You don't actually know how many of your bookings are prostitutes.

So you don't know what proportion of business you will lose by deterring them.

You also don't know what effect increasing verification would have, since it may be that potential guests will just jump through that hoop in order to make a booking.

GingerLily

Have you contacted the Garda?

endacl

Effects wrote: »

He’s not a hotelier either, as you seem to suggest.

I never suggested that.

thereality

OP we changed the law, so a women / man selling sex is not breaking the law. But it is the purchaser who is breaking the law. Although I think once there is more than one individual selling sex, the legalities is a bit murky

Only accepting people with a few decent reviews will reduce your bookings. But will likely eliminate this problem.

Another option is asking guests questions about their trip and see if they were looking to see the sights or just sell services

The_Conductor

4ensic15 wrote: »

The Residential Tenancies Act does not apply to lettings which are for the purposes of a holiday. No way are AirBnB guests tenants.

Correct.
What I said was:

current Irish legislation does not address airbnb situations in a proper manner-

Airbnb falls between several stools- and is the worst of every possible scenario if anything goes wrong.

4ensic15

The_Conductor wrote: »

Correct.
What I said was:



Airbnb falls between several stools- and is the worst of every possible scenario if anything goes wrong.

in law as a hotel guest and can be locked out, or physically removed , if necessary. An overholding non oaying tenant, causing damage to the property and abusing the legal protections for tenants and the legal system is far, far worse.

El Weirdo

thereality wrote: »

Another option is asking guests questions about their trip and see if they were looking to see the sights or just sell services

How is that supposed to help? Is OP meant to administer a truth serum before asking the questions?

The_Conductor

El Weirdo wrote: »

How is that supposed to help? Is OP meant to administer a truth serum before asking the questions?

Sodium pentanol- of course!
OP- just use the verified feature on Airbnb- and take your chances.
Not a lot you can legitimately do otherwise.

solargain

I had a similar issue with a property I rent out. They came in through tripadvisor ( not airbnb) . For the most part I have families coming home for a weeks holidays staying at my property. However I had a similar problem with a booking and when I went to the gardai they told me it would be impossible to catch them without being in the room when the money transacts. As the booking was only a week long they told me to wait it out they would be gone in a few days . Shortly after that my brother his wife and 2 grown up daughters came to stay for a week and I put them in there. My sister in law has dark skin Jamaican decent , the neighbours duly rang up the management company and comlained that the "girls were back again" . Their father and mother were there with them. so it depends on the neighbours and their perception of what is happening at your property.

Eric Cartman

Mr.S wrote: »

The simple answer is don’t allow instant book and only accept guests with previous reviews / don’t fit the “working girl” profile.

Apart from that, there’s little else you can do.

You can enable the verified feature, so only people with verified profiles (passport etc) can send off a booking request.

most hosts need the business, this works if you have a 5 star property or a very business traveller place to stay, but for most rentals this would kill a lot of business

FinanceDublin

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Not bothered about forcing your neighbours to live nextdoor to a knocking shop, and all the weirdos that attracts no? how would you feel if your current residence was located next to one? another selfish landlord, worried about liabilities rather than neighbours or potential for girls (working knowingly on his premises) to be sex trafficked.

For the OP: I think restricting bookings to people with a track record would be an obvious start.

For the above: Thanks for being a completely unhelpful blowhard. I didn’t realise they allowed Irish Times columnists to have a boards account.

solargain

Not a easy to restrict bookings as you think , anybody can create a profile. A lot of ordinary honest people create one while they are looking for a holiday location. They don't give much though to it after they comeback and its just left until their next holiday. They may or may not get a profile review. I find it difficult to give one if you rent the whole property to them and you are not there with them.
Anybody that does damage I notify Airnb about directly, the rest I leave vague. You just never know who you get

anon322

4ensic15 wrote: »

The_Conductor wrote: »

Correct.
What I said was:

in law as a hotel guest and can be locked out, or physically removed , if necessary. An overholding non oaying tenant, causing damage to the property and abusing the legal protections for tenants and the legal system is far, far worse.

You have to be able to prove your claims though and could be in legal trouble if you accuse a young lady of being a prostitute. I work in a hotel and if we suspect someone in house we check on escorts Ireland to see if she is listed in our area. We then have someone walk up and down the hall until the lady in question leaves because no one can go into her room. Obviously this won’t work in an air bnb situation.

Peregrinus

thereality wrote: »

OP we changed the law, so a women / man selling sex is not breaking the law. But it is the purchaser who is breaking the law. Although I think once there is more than one individual selling sex, the legalities is a bit murky.

Yes. There have always been a whole host of offences aimed not at prostitutes themselves, but at people who profit from prostitution in one way or another. So there are laws targeting the owners of premises used as a brothel, laws targeting people who provide services to prostitution businesses, etc. These laws weren't affected by the shift in criminalisation from prostitute to customer.

The OP would have to be extraordinarily unlucky to fall foul of one of them, but I get that he's rather not face the risk in the first place.