It's not April 1st is it?

thomasj

Satisfaction ratings provided by the NTA
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Infographic_NTA_customer_satisfaction.pdf

hots

Must be a spoof, the numbers are ludicrous and the last fact is duplicated within an inch of itself.

vectorvictor

thomasj wrote: »

Satisfaction ratings provided by the NTA
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Infographic_NTA_customer_satisfaction.pdf

Sample size is ridiculous. 2500 over six different transport methods.

So in summary they came to the conclusion that 98% of luas users are happy by asking 416 of the 37.6million passenger journeys in 2017

Billy86

I'm going to go ahead and say it - even with the sample size negative feedback must have been deleted deliberately. Those numbers (Dublin Bus especially from the ones I use) simply cannot be accurate and I don't buy it for a second; doesn't help that the page reads like promotional material and not survey results.

magicbastarder

regardless of the sample size, an obvious question is how the users were selected.

Billy86

And the wording of what they were asked.

Any friends I have had over from abroad wind up utterly shocked by our public transport - friendly service is typically commended (even if some bus drivers have a chip on their shoulder we're better than most there on average I find), but it's otherwise an absolute mess. In Sao Paulo, Brazil they had riots over their public transport (well overall corruption, but public transport was a central point of the protests), and I've had a few tell me Ireland's really is barely any better if at all.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

fritzelly

vectorvictor wrote: »

Sample size is ridiculous. 2500 over six different transport methods.

So in summary they came to the conclusion that 98% of luas users are happy by asking 416 of the 37.6million passenger journeys in 2017

You're assuming the numbers are divided equally
Of the 5 people getting off the Luas at 8pm that we asked...

vectorvictor

testicles wrote: »

There were 37.6 million unique passengers on the Luas in 2017 ? :cool:

I believe I said passenger journeys not passengers ☺

Jamie2k9

Apart from Luas (clearly it was done before) system faults/delays have become a daily occurrence on both lines. Irish Rail not a major surprise however I expect N Commuter/Maynooth feelingis not reflected because its in with Intericity.

Better breakdown.
http://www.thejournal.ie/dart-passengers-commuters-survey-3848499-Feb2018/

Franz Von Peppercorn

Billy86 wrote: »

And the wording of what they were asked.

Any friends I have had over from abroad wind up utterly shocked by our public transport - friendly service is typically commended (even if some bus drivers have a chip on their shoulder we're better than most there on average I find), but it's otherwise an absolute mess. In Sao Paulo, Brazil they had riots over their public transport (well overall corruption, but public transport was a central point of the protests), and I've had a few tell me Ireland's really is barely any better if at all.

Very few tourists use Dublin bus so I don’t get that.

Franz Von Peppercorn

vectorvictor wrote: »

I believe I said passenger journeys not passengers ☺

But why would passenger journeys be relevant to the sample size?


Anyway 400 is an ok number for a sample, if random.

Billy86

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Very few tourists use Dublin bus so I don’t get that.

The Brazilians lived over here, and with Dublin being so geographically small compared to other cities I've known people to book anywhere from Dundrum to Crumlin to near the airport, figuring that public transport would only have them about 20 mins from their door to the city centre. If only they knew! :pac:

Manach

Without an analysis of the sampling methods I could not specific the wrongs or rights of the survey results, but antedocally I reckon the satisfaction is too high.

somefeen

There's some holes in this alright.

75% said there is real time information at their regular stop.

Now I'm no statistician, but you generally get real time info at major train stations or routes that ar well maintained and busy.

So I'm kind of thinking that they made a point of surveying routes that they already knew would get good ratings.

How could so many people say there is real time info at their stop when so few stops have it?

Billy86

Can't speak for Bus Eireann, but as a frequent user of Dublin Bus... no, just no.

Thankfully I don't study or work in town anymore, so no longer need to explain to my boss or lecturer that I was stood at the 16 bus stop (about 3-4 from the first stop) for over 90 minutes when it's supposed to come every 15-20, only to see four come flying by all at once... and then come back down all at once... all out of order. Or the alternative I used to have of fairly frequent taxis into college/work just to make sure I didn't get hammered in marking for attendance, or sacked.

Hilly Bill

thomasj wrote: »

Satisfaction ratings provided by the NTA
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Infographic_NTA_customer_satisfaction.pdf

You may just have to accept that from time to time that not everyone shares the same view point as you regarding public transport. There is more to the publics view than social media.

thomasj

I would accept these type of surveys if they released the methodology of these surveys to the public. info such as where the surveys took place and what questions were asked.

I would love to know that there was a good spread geographically surveyed and that its not the case that 90% surveyed use the 46A.

This is why people shrug off these surveys.

Hilly Bill

Would you question it if it shared your view point?

fly_agaric

This page has more detail for those interested, and links to a report (have not read it yet).

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/public-transport-gets-91-customer-satisfaction-rating/

Methodology

Conduct surveys of users of public transport to assess their level of satisfaction with service provision at an overall level and across a range of key metrics. Following a pilot phase in April 2017 we have focused on asking customers about their experience of usage “in general” rather than a specific journey.
•Face to face interviews with people aged 16+. Respondents recruited at stops/stations located throughout the country as they are waiting to board or alighting public transport services – interviews conducted using tablets with pre-programmed survey script.
•A total sample of 2,516 customers were interviewed, consisting of the following:
−Dublin Bus n=408
−Luas n=301
−Irish Rail InterCity and Commuter n=393
−DART n=202
−Bus Éireann n=925
−Private coaches n=287
•Data for the all public transport section has been weighted to reflect the number of passenger journeys. The all public transport data includes data for all modes of transport, excluding private buses.
•Fieldwork was conducted from early October until mid-November. No interviews for Irish Rail or DART were conducted during days of industrial action (1st and 7th November).
•We have weighted results for overall public transport by passenger numbers from the Authority’s website; this figure excludes results for private coaches.

I think you can conclude things from these kind of sample sizes once the sample is collected okay (to make it random i.e. representative of population you are sampling + not biased in some way). Smaller the sample I imagine, the more careful you must be about that. Also (health warning as have not read report) wondering about the face to face thing? Would it be a bit harder to gripe at a human and tell them you are not so happy with the service (!)

vectorvictor

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

But why would passenger journeys be relevant to the sample size?


Anyway 400 is an ok number for a sample, if random.

Pedantic much! If you feel 2.5 luas worth of pax is a good sample size over a year fair enough

Cookie_Monster

400 is too small, 1,000 is a pretty stand sample size, would have been easy to generate this for each mode type.
Without knowing the actual questions asked though I find it a pretty worthless survey, all depends what was asked and more importantly how it was asked.

Franz Von Peppercorn

vectorvictor wrote: »

Pedantic much! If you feel 2.5 luas worth of pax is a good sample size over a year fair enough

Yeh, but I understand statistics. 400 is enough to sample the US election to +- 5%, if randomly selected.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t other problems with the methodology. I can think of one obvious one - the people who stop are probably not in a rush. So this maybe excludes rush hour passengers. Or anybody who is late.

These are the ones less likely to be happy.

vectorvictor

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Yeh, but I understand statistics. 400 is enough to sample the US election to +- 5%, if randomly selected.

Well then youve proved your point that your cleverer than the rest of the world and can sleep well with your ego intact.

Franz Von Peppercorn

vectorvictor wrote: »

Well then youve proved your point that your cleverer than the rest of the world and can sleep well with your ego intact.

I know. I am all aglow.

fritzelly

The per transport survey respondents make a mockery of the results
40% of all surveyed were for the carrier of the least amount of passengers
Whereas DB had the same number surveyed as the train but carries 3 times the amount of passengers

Add in the weighting and who knows what the real result is - sure OAP's are probably under represented but you can boost their scores accordingly (free travel and all that)

fly_agaric

They say they did it "early October to mid November" so that is around about 46 days. For DB for example (408 surveys) they were doing around 9 passengers a day during that period so they would want to have been quite careful about design around times and locations etc. They should have given the text of the questions in report alright (you can get an idea I suppose from how they lay out results).

Stephen15

While DB may have it's flaws such as dwell times being the main one for me. For me anyway now this may be a case of geography and where I live but the services which are on my doorstep namely the 46a and the 145 I think they are excellent services fast than driving into town due to the QBCs and the buses are generally very frequent.

Billy86

Stephen15 wrote: »

While DB may have it's flaws such as dwell times being the main one for me. For me anyway now this may be a case of geography and where I live but the services which are on my doorstep namely the 46a and the 145 I think they are excellent services fast than driving into town due to the QBCs and the buses are generally very frequent.

Funny enough when the post above yours showed the low number of people being polled per day I almost posted that they waited for people getting off the 46A or 145 in the afternoon, e.g. outside of rush hour.

"So how was your sub-90 second wait for the two routes that each seems to have more buses servicing them than the rest of the city combined? Satisfactory? Wonder, tick the green box Johno we've got another!!"

Since the 15B/74A/whatever starts only 2-3 stops before Nassau St I used to go there after work to wait for it (this was before the realtime stuff so knowing when it was set to leave helped a bit, in theory anyway) and I can't tell you how irrationally under my skin it got to see what felt like 6-8 of them pass if I were waiting for 20-30 minutes on my own. As if the DART, Luas and other routes weren't enough!

ED E

somefeen wrote: »

How could so many people say there is real time info at their stop when so few stops have it?

Loads of DB stops have it (nearly all??). All trains + DB + Luas = only BE draining the stats.

fritzelly

I'm like that with the number 15's - there is a literally a plethora of them heading into the city and all the other buses real time info is nearly useless unless DB thinks 2 mins equals 5 mins or more

LuckyLloyd

I use a mixture of Dublin Bus, LUAS and Irish Rail commuter services each week and think the overall service to be satisfactory. It is also much improved over the last year, and constantly improving.

The LUAS CC opening being a poorly planned and unready disaster notwithstanding, the overall trend is positive.

Stephen15

Billy86 wrote: »

Funny enough when the post above yours showed the low number of people being polled per day I almost posted that they waited for people getting off the 46A or 145 in the afternoon, e.g. outside of rush hour.

"So how was your sub-90 second wait for the two routes that each seems to have more buses servicing them than the rest of the city combined? Satisfactory? Wonder, tick the green box Johno we've got another!!"

Since the 15B/74A/whatever starts only 2-3 stops before Nassau St I used to go there after work to wait for it (this was before the realtime stuff so knowing when it was set to leave helped a bit, in theory anyway) and I can't tell you how irrationally under my skin it got to see what felt like 6-8 of them pass if I were waiting for 20-30 minutes on my own. As if the DART, Luas and other routes weren't enough!

But the truth is all DB routes should to the same standard as the 46a or the 145. If it were me it wouldn't get under my skin it would make me why aren't there as many 15s as 46as or 145s.

I recently used to 40 and the 140 when I was working out in Finglas and I found them to be good services too mind you. I also used the 83 also but this took a lot longer and was less frequent.

LeinsterDub

ED E wrote: »

Loads of DB stops have it (nearly all??). All trains + DB + Luas = only BE draining the stats.

Not outside the City Center they don't.

Billgirlylegs

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

More than that in 2018:pac:

Billy86

Stephen15 wrote: »

But the truth is all DB routes should to the same standard as the 46a or the 145. If it were me it wouldn't get under my skin it would make me why aren't there as many 15s as 46as or 145s.

I recently used to 40 and the 140 when I was working out in Finglas and I found them to be good services too mind you. I also used the 83 also but this took a lot longer and was less frequent.

To be honest, the biggest thing for me in public transport is reliability. Frequently being left waiting for over a half hour when the live update says around 2-4 minutes, or waiting an hour and a half for a bus only for four to come by all in working order with passengers and then come back down together all out of order, or frequently having to get a taxi in rush hour for work or to college because the bus is late... that's a huge negative. Especially when I'm watching 46A after 145 after 46A pass me by with them being mostly empty for how frequent they are (on top of having the LUAS, and the DART), only to see passengers in most other buses squeezed in like sardines in a can before the bus has gone even a few stops, because people have been left waiting so long on it.

It would be nice if they all ran to that standard, but the truth is they don't.

I find the upkeep or buses and (generally) the attitude of drivers to be decent for the most part and wouldn't have many complaints there, but the logistical side of it is an absolute disaster both in terms of route planning, and for other issues (like there being stops every 100m or so very often, which is utterly needless and slow everything down - traffic outside of the bus itself included).

tabbey

The real point that people have missed is that the survey was confined to those who use public transport.

About 40 % of the population do not use it unless they have no alternative, and only rarely. These people votewith their feet - or their car wheels.

A functioning city needs a good public transport system to get people out of their cars, so that the city can run smoothly like a well-oiled machine.

Dublin does not have a good service, hence the streets jammed with taxis, delivery vehicles and private cars, a third world level of efficiency, in a city that has become a mere plaything of the property speculators, rather than a home fit for proud citizens.

Garret Fitzgerald predicted that a cross city tramway would not work running on the streets. The last month has proved him right.

A heavy rail network of high capacity trains and Luas underground should have been developed over the last forty years.
That we have not done so is testimony to our toleration of gombeenism, and the "I'm all right Jack" mentality.

Sooner or later, the Irish people have to cop on and spend wisely on their capital, without which the whole nation cannot function.

Stephen15

Billy86 wrote: »

To be honest, the biggest thing for me in public transport is reliability. Frequently being left waiting for over a half hour when the live update says around 2-4 minutes, or waiting an hour and a half for a bus only for four to come by all in working order with passengers and then come back down together all out of order, or frequently having to get a taxi in rush hour for work or to college because the bus is late... that's a huge negative. Especially when I'm watching 46A after 145 after 46A pass me by with them being mostly empty for how frequent they are (on top of having the LUAS, and the DART), only to see passengers in most other buses squeezed in like sardines in a can before the bus has gone even a few stops, because people have been left waiting so long on it.

That's nonsense the 46a and the 145 are usually fairly busy even off peak. The 46a and the 145 also serve a completely different area to the DART and the Luas. Stop being jealous of other routes just because one or two bus route are very reliable and efficent doesn't we should cut them rather they should look at why some routes are more efficient reliable than others and look to replicate their efficiency on other routes. The 46a and 145 are usually packed at rush hour aswell.

Billy86

Stephen15 wrote: »

That's nonsense the 46a and the 145 are usually fairly busy even off peak. The 46a and the 145 also serve a completely different area to the DART and the Luas. Stop being jealous of other routes just because one or two bus route are very reliable and efficent doesn't we should cut them rather they should look at why some routes are more efficient reliable than others and look to replicate their efficiency on other routes. The 46a and 145 are usually packed at rush hour aswell.

The reason they are more efficient is that there are so bloody much of them at the expense of other routes, that's the point.

First, I have frequently seen the 46A and 145 half empty in the middle of rush hour (once the immediate 5-5.15pm rush is over), which likely has something to do with one coming every 4 minutes on average, and their routes being almost identical for the majority of their runs, the whole way from O'Connell Bridge to Cournelscourt they might as well be the same bus (see attachment). Four buses in a row come and you'll be on the fifth right around 20 minutes from arriving at the stop... probably less than the average wait between most other routes in the city even without any out of service or delays. And even that is only if you happen to not be on the Luas or DART line. For others not only is the Luas not necessarily an option, nor is the Dart necessarily one either, but rather than 20 minutes you can be waiting well over an hour easily.

Secondly, they each pass through where the Luas and DART do near the end of their runs. The Luas comes on average every 5 minutes of the day and on top of that the DART (which does run on a different route to the other three until the end but has the 7 and 7A every 15 mins to further accommodate it) itself runs every 10-15 minutes.

---

Then there is the fact that this is compounded by inexplicably close numbers of bus stops on most routes (again, see attachment). My personal favourite one is by Rathfarnham village where I have counted exactly 11 seconds between the engine revving up to leave one bus stop, and the bus coming to a complete halt at the next... that's a problem on almost all routes that I've been on too, it's not unique to just one or two. It's a waste of fuel stopping/starting, it slows down the bus route a lot, and it slows down traffic around it which just further compounds the problem. To me that's the easiest fix of all that they simple don't seem to have been arsed making for whatever reason.