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Bankera

  • 09-02-2018 3:51pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭✭✭ NorthDublin1


    Hello,

    I was looking for suggestions on Bankera. It looks legit, has anybody else heard about it?

    My uncle sent me this information today. Before we invest, what are you thoughts.

    It's a regulated bank on the blockchain, they actually bought a real bank. It's the same team that made the spectrocoin wallet. Once you have the tokens they pay weekly dividends. Advisors include the European Parliament members and director of MEN.

    You buy the tokens through the Spectra exchange. I think you have to transfer Bitcoin to Spectra and then exchange the Bitcoin for the tokens.

    Referral link for Spectra : https://spectrocoin.com/en/signup.html?referralId=4147650660

    https://bankera.com

    I was going to put in a couple of hundred, is that too much?

    Cheers
    John


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    I'm confused - is this not just an exchange where you can buy Bitcoin?

    What tokens are you talking about and what are you investing in?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭✭✭ NorthDublin1


    Hello, apologies, I should have been more clear.

    When we were looking at the Bankera ICO, the website referred us to the Spectra Exchange to purchase the Bankera ICO tokens BNK.

    The Spectra Exchange has a number of coins on it including Bitcoin, Ethereum, NEM, BNK etc

    What are you thoughts on Bankera ICO?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Sorry - I missed that.

    The only thing I'll say (as I'm leaving work!) is that how much you put in any ICO/stock/coin/classic car is completely your call! Best to assume you'll not get it back. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭ makeorbrake


    So what advantage do Bankera bring to the table? They say that they will be able to offer more competitive loans - to business customers - but I'm not seeing what their USP is? I assume from the management team that they're Lithuania based (although I don't see that stated as such...no doubt its there somewhere). Are they marketing this 'bank' in Lithuania or where and to whom?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    Hi,

    From what I've read, Bankera plan to obtain a Banking licence (licences possibly for different jurisdictions) for commercial banking activities. I think they have a small private bank, but that's a different type of animal and I suspect, has different regulatory approval requirements to a commercial banking licence. In essence, the gameplan is to offer a bank that works in both FIAT and crypto currencies, if I've got it right.

    It's a great idea, but will the existing regulators give a licence to an entity dealing in cryptos ?

    I've not seen any cashflow forecasts as yet, but can't help feeling this is going to burn a lot of cash before it gets anywhere near critical mass. There's a lot of people shown on the management / advisory team that are going to want a regular paycheck etc.

    I think that there are incentives such as "dividends" for those who participate in the ICO, to be paid over time. There's also mention of giving investors additional coins if they don't sell out under the ICO (which can be seen as both as positive and negative, obviously the negative being that it brings a bigger risk as they don't get all the cash they wanted to raise).

    I've put a few quid into it, but it's a massive punt just like all other ICOs.

    A Spectra account is required to buy into the ICO. You can transfer in bitcoin, ether and I think from memory, one or two other coins also.

    I must admit, I wasn't terribly impressed with Spectracoin as an exchange and comments on the Google Playstore regarding their App left me a bit concerned, so I've not installed it to date (which is frustrating as Apps are handy for monitoring etc.)

    Nothing personal NorthDublin1, but I didn't use your referral as to be honest, I didn't think you'd really done any reading or research on this ICO, and were just getting your referral link in asap.

    Thanks,

    G.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭ makeorbrake


    Thanks for the comprehensive response, garrettod.
    I guess I'm still struggling to see a major advantage though. Does it really advantage a customer if they facilitate crypto and FIAT under the same roof?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    Thanks for the comprehensive response, garrettod.

    I guess I'm still struggling to see a major advantage though.

    Does it really advantage a customer if they facilitate crypto and FIAT under the same roof?

    Hi,

    I would not say that was anywhere near "comprehensive", but thanks for the kind words nonetheless. There's a lot of reading in the White Paper, their website etc. so I've just touched on a few of the points.

    Personally, I think the answer to your question is yes - to be able to have one account, where you can have your Euro salary paid in via the IBAN, instantly transfer out some of the funds in (say) Ether to pay someone over the other side of the world and have them receive it immediately at a very low cost, be able to next convert some Bitcoin that you've received into GBP£ and use it to buy something in the UK, to have a debit card that can draw on your crypto balances rather than just your Euro balance etc. appeals to me. That's before you go anywhere near their plans for ETFs, Business Loans etc.

    While the combination of services can probably be obtained through a few entities, rather under one roof, the convenience, the speed, the potential low combined costs for the consumer, are all positive in my mind.

    I also think that it helps significantly with bringing wide scale acceptance and familiarity to the cryptos, as methods of payment for the "ordinary person".

    The size of the ICO is a big ask of the market (although they have already raised a lot of money- see here), and I expect that the business will have a massive cash burn as it tries to scale up, get through regulatory approvals (possibly their biggest obstacle in many western parts of the world) etc.

    Ultimately, if your not in, you can't win ;)

    ... but do go putting in anymore than you can afford to lose.

    .

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭ Speculator


    I've been researching hundreds of ICO's over the past few months, this appears to be one of the most promising so far.

    Great team with a very active community. (Some high profile individuals on board.)

    Before investing in ICO's, I would suggest you take a look at this article.

    ICO Basics, To Invest or Not? Cutting Through The Bulls***
    https://blockgeeks.com/guides/ico-basics/



    As always do your own research and only invest what you can afford to lose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    My first ICO of 2018, really exciting about this project.

    I’m assuming it will be a European Crypto Bank based on the Whitepaper and Members of the European Parliament acting as advisors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,671 ✭✭✭✭ Inquitus


    The ICO is not directly linked to the companies equity? How is value placed on the crypto they sell if you have no ownership stake in the firm? This is the gap I have on ICO's, if someone could plug it for me, that would be great.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    Inquitus wrote: »
    The ICO is not directly linked to the companies equity? How is value placed on the crypto they sell if you have no ownership stake in the firm? This is the gap I have on ICO's, if someone could plug it for me, that would be great.

    This is CryptoCurrency not Stocks and Shares.

    Cryptocurrency is a virtual currency, some of these include Bitcoin, Litecoin etc these are not the same as shares i.e. CokeCola and Unilever.

    I get frustrated when people ask this type of question as it shows a lack of understanding and a lack of research.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    garrettod wrote: »
    Hi,

    From what I've read, Bankera plan to obtain a Banking licence (licences possibly for different jurisdictions) for commercial banking activities. I think they have a small private bank, but that's a different type of animal and I suspect, has different regulatory approval requirements to a commercial banking licence. In essence, the gameplan is to offer a bank that works in both FIAT and crypto currencies, if I've got it right.

    It's a great idea, but will the existing regulators give a licence to an entity dealing in cryptos ?

    I've not seen any cashflow forecasts as yet, but can't help feeling this is going to burn a lot of cash before it gets anywhere near critical mass. There's a lot of people shown on the management / advisory team that are going to want a regular paycheck etc.

    I think that there are incentives such as "dividends" for those who participate in the ICO, to be paid over time. There's also mention of giving investors additional coins if they don't sell out under the ICO (which can be seen as both as positive and negative, obviously the negative being that it brings a bigger risk as they don't get all the cash they wanted to raise).

    I've put a few quid into it, but it's a massive punt just like all other ICOs.

    A Spectra account is required to buy into the ICO. You can transfer in bitcoin, ether and I think from memory, one or two other coins also.

    I must admit, I wasn't terribly impressed with Spectracoin as an exchange and comments on the Google Playstore regarding their App left me a bit concerned, so I've not installed it to date (which is frustrating as Apps are handy for monitoring etc.)

    Nothing personal NorthDublin1, but I didn't use your referral as to be honest, I didn't think you'd really done any reading or research on this ICO, and were just getting your referral link in asap.

    This post is like the blind leading the blind.

    Here we go again talking about cash flow forecast and projections. This is Cryptocurrency not shares, they are very very different.

    Why are the advisors going to want a regular pay cheque? This is not a retail bank. If you read the white paper it specifically states that tokens have already been allocated to advisors.

    There seems to be a lot of confusion between Crypto and Company Shares.

    I’ve been involved in Crypto for over 2 years, I’ve also invested in some of the best performing ICO’s such as NEO aka Antshares, Cardano and Icon.

    I like Bankera and have invested in it, however if you do not know how crypto’s operate stay away. Start off with Bitcoin and Ethereum etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,671 ✭✭✭✭ Inquitus


    CryptoMad wrote: »
    This is CryptoCurrency not Stocks and Shares.

    Cryptocurrency is a virtual currency, some of these include Bitcoin, Litecoin etc these are not the same as shares i.e. CokeCola and Unilever.

    I get frustrated when people ask this type of question as it shows a lack of understanding and a lack of research.

    Yep and the crypto only has value through a value being placed on it by the users, company or the service being offered using it. How does this ICO Coin propose to generate value for itself in the future. Simple question, if you can't answer it you shouldn't be investing in it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Yep and the crypto only has value through a value being placed on it by the users, company or the service being offered using it. How does this ICO Coin propose to generate value for itself in the future. Simple question, if you can't answer it you shouldn't be investing in it.

    Thank you for your reply, I suggest you take a look at the website. You need to do your own research.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    CryptoMad wrote: »
    This post is like the blind leading the blind.

    Then thank the Lord that you've now arrived to show us all the light :rolleyes:
    CryptoMad wrote: »
    Here we go again talking about cash flow forecast and projections. This is Cryptocurrency not shares, they are very very different.

    What's the same is simple, if these entities don't generate revenue and profits, they collapse !
    CryptoMad wrote: »
    Why are the advisors going to want a regular pay cheque?

    Eh, because they've got bills to pay - to eat, to keep warm, to keep a roof over their head, need I continue ?

    Would you like to confirm (and evidence) that all have waived their need for a regular pay cheque on this project, if you think I'm wrong ?
    CryptoMad wrote: »
    This is not a retail bank.

    I never said it was, but part of the strategy does involve retail banking (i.e. providing basic every day banking services to retail customers, otherwise known as consumers)
    CryptoMad wrote: »
    If you read the white paper it specifically states that tokens have already been allocated to advisors.

    What's your point ?

    That they've been incentivised to join the project and see it succeed ?

    Are you suggesting that they should be happy because they've been assigned tokens and therefore thyey do not need any regular salaries ? If so, I again refer back to their need to pay their regular bills to live and would like you to show me evidence that they've waived all requirements for regular salaries from Bankara.
    CryptoMad wrote: »
    There seems to be a lot of confusion between Crypto and Company Shares.

    Yes, there is some, but there is also some very similar questions that need asking - such as what's the business plan, where do revenues come from, how does the project break even / make a profit, what happens to those earnings etc. etc. All sound questions, regardless of whether it's a crypto project or a project to make toilet paper.

    You might like to focus on the potential for short (or medium / long term) growth in the capital value of the currency, but the reality is that in order for the value to grow, it needs to attract and retain high levels of demand and that comes from belief in the future success of the project, which requires ongoing development, service and support, promotion etc. and that all comes at a cost, so there's gotta be revenues and earnings to pay for it all !
    CryptoMad wrote: »
    I’ve been involved in Crypto for over 2 years, I’ve also invested in some of the best performing ICO’s such as NEO aka Antshares, Cardano and Icon.

    There are lots of people who have been at this for a while, enjoyed some good levels of success with other ICOs etc. I'd respectfully suggest that 2 years isn't that long a period of time. Out of interest, are you trying to imply that you've a 100% success record with your crypto related dealings to date, or just that you got lucky on a few ICOs like many others who took a punt ?
    CryptoMad wrote: »
    I like Bankera and have invested in it, however if you do not know how crypto’s operate stay away.

    That's perfect !
    CryptoMad wrote: »
    ...Start off with Bitcoin and Ethereum etc.

    ... although I'm not quite sure how you got from telling people who don't know how cryptos operate to stay away in one sentence, to starting off with Bitcoin and Ether in the next.

    The bottom line here is very simple... anything that's crypto related comes with massive risk, so if someone isn't up for taking that level of risk then crypto related investing ain't for them, as there's a real chance you can lose everything that you invest.

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    garrettod wrote: »
    Then thank the Lord that you've now arrived to show us all the light :rolleyes:



    What's the same is simple, if these entities don't generate revenue and profits, they collapse !



    Eh, because they've got bills to pay - to eat, to keep warm, to keep a roof over their head, need I continue ?

    Would you like to confirm (and evidence) that all have waived their need for a regular pay cheque on this project, if you think I'm wrong ?



    I never said it was, but part of the strategy does involve retail banking (i.e. providing basic every day banking services to retail customers, otherwise known as consumers)



    What's your point ?

    That they've been incentivised to join the project and see it succeed ?

    Are you suggesting that they should be happy because they've been assigned tokens and therefore thyey do not need any regular salaries ? If so, I again refer back to their need to pay their regular bills to live and would like you to show me evidence that they've waived all requirements for regular salaries from Bankara.



    Yes, there is some, but there is also some very similar questions that need asking - such as what's the business plan, where do revenues come from, how does the project break even / make a profit, what happens to those earnings etc. etc. All sound questions, regardless of whether it's a crypto project or a project to make toilet paper.

    You might like to focus on the potential for short (or medium / long term) growth in the capital value of the currency, but the reality is that in order for the value to grow, it needs to attract and retain high levels of demand and that comes from belief in the future success of the project, which requires ongoing development, service and support, promotion etc. and that all comes at a cost, so there's gotta be revenues and earnings to pay for it all !



    There are lots of people who have been at this for a while, enjoyed some good levels of success with other ICOs etc. I'd respectfully suggest that 2 years isn't that long a period of time. Out of interest, are you trying to imply that you've a 100% success record with your crypto related dealings to date, or just that you got lucky on a few ICOs like many others who took a punt ?



    That's perfect !



    ... although I'm not quite sure how you got from telling people who don't know how cryptos operate to stay away in one sentence, to starting off with Bitcoin and Ether in the next.

    The bottom line here is very simple... anything that's crypto related comes with massive risk, so if someone isn't up for taking that level of risk then crypto related investing ain't for them, as there's a real chance you can lose everything that you invest.

    The more I read the more concerned I am at the lack of understanding. Rather than covering all your comments we need to revert back to basics.

    “If entities don’t generate revenue and profits, they collapse.”

    No not correct, companies generate revenue and profits, however we are talking about crypto coins and tokens here.

    For example Bitcoin does not generate revenue or profits it’s a decentralized peer to peer virtual currency.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,671 ✭✭✭✭ Inquitus


    Currently Bankera pay out 20% of their transaction fees to Token Holders on a pro-rata basis. The latest weekly reported payout was 37,471.46 EUR. I guess the value proposition here is it really takes off, and the transaction fees take off along with it, providing you a nice weekly staple for your investment as well as boosting the value of the tokens in line with expected payouts and associated value.

    37k euro is very little currently when compared with the €100m they hope to raise, so it is certainly a punt on their likely long term success and viability. Given the Tokens are not backed by the money raised and only the promise of future fee payouts, it seems that they are overvalued by any metric one might measure with, at this point in time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭ garrettod


    CryptoMad wrote: »
    The more I read the more concerned I am at the lack of understanding. Rather than covering all your comments we need to revert back to basics.

    “If entities don’t generate revenue and profits, they collapse.”

    No not correct, companies generate revenue and profits, however we are talking about crypto coins and tokens here.

    For example Bitcoin does not generate revenue or profits it’s a decentralized peer to peer virtual currency.


    We are talking about crypto coins and tokens here. Fine, once they are issued, how do they get supported in terms of tech issues, development of related services etc. ?

    Funds raised don't last for ever and particularly if there's a significant cash burn, which there tends to be with just about all of these projects in the early stages. So, to be sustained, they need profits.

    With best intentions all round, peer to peer stuff only lasts so long before people get tired of doing the work for nothing, or become more interested in a new project etc.

    You give Bitcoin as an example of a virtual currency, but in truth it's not being used as a currency (i.e. a system of payment). Bitcoin is simply being used as something to place a bet on, just like we might bet on a coin flip. If Bitcoin is to succeed as a popular method of payment, it needs people working to bring it into mainstream commerce and that requires significant resources, which need to be funded.

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    garrettod wrote: »
    We are talking about crypto coins and tokens here. Fine, once they are issued, how do they get supported in terms of tech issues, development of related services etc. ?

    Funds raised don't last for ever and particularly if there's a significant cash burn, which there tends to be with just about all of these projects in the early stages. So, to be sustained, they need profits.

    With best intentions all round, peer to peer stuff only lasts so long before people get tired of doing the work for nothing, or become more interested in a new project etc.

    You give Bitcoin as an example of a virtual currency, but in truth it's not being used as a currency (i.e. a system of payment). Bitcoin is simply being used as something to place a bet on, just like we might bet on a coin flip. If Bitcoin is to succeed as a popular method of payment, it needs people working to bring it into mainstream commerce and that requires significant resources, which need to be funded.

    Ok so Bitcoin is not a cryptocurrency?

    I suppose Litecoin is not a cryptocurrency?

    Do a google search on Blockchain,distributed ledger and how it works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Currently Bankera pay out 20% of their transaction fees to Token Holders on a pro-rata basis. The latest weekly reported payout was 37,471.46 EUR. I guess the value proposition here is it really takes off, and the transaction fees take off along with it, providing you a nice weekly staple for your investment as well as boosting the value of the tokens in line with expected payouts and associated value.

    37k euro is very little currently when compared with the €100m they hope to raise, so it is certainly a punt on their likely long term success and viability. Given the Tokens are not backed by the money raised and only the promise of future fee payouts, it seems that they are overvalued by any metric one might measure with, at this point in time.

    Good point, interesting perspective to use in order to work out the current value. (based on the current dividend rate.)

    Using the same formula 100% of stocks and shares are overvalued never mind crypto :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,671 ✭✭✭✭ Inquitus


    CryptoMad wrote: »
    Good point, interesting perspective to use in order to work out the current value. (based on the current dividend rate.)

    Using the same formula 100% of stocks and shares are overvalued never mind crypto :)

    Shares give you ownership of the company along with the dividends, all this gives you is the dividend, so in the case of this Token its the only measure of its current or future value. Nice try at obfuscation though.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Shares give you ownership of the company along with the dividends, all this gives you is the dividend, so in the case of this Token its the only measure of its current or future value. Nice try at obfuscation though.....

    Obfuscation not really, once you understand blockchain it will all become clear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,671 ✭✭✭✭ Inquitus


    CryptoMad wrote: »
    Obfuscation not really, once you understand blockchain it will all become clear.

    I fully understand the blockchain, I mined bitcoins back when you could mine them at home on a GPU in 2010/11.

    While the technology is exciting and has a myriad of potential profitable business uses, in this case you are taking a massive punt on Bankera being a breakout and ramping up their transaction volumes to a point where it supports the current Token valuation, something that is far from guaranteed, and represents very poor investment value.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    Inquitus wrote: »
    I fully understand the blockchain, I mined bitcoins back when you could mine them at home on a GPU in 2010/11.

    While the technology is exciting and has a myriad of potential profitable business uses, in this case you are taking a massive punt on Bankera being a breakout and ramping up their transaction volumes to a point where it supports the current Token valuation, something that is far from guaranteed, and represents very poor investment value.

    Perhaps or perhaps not, I respect your opinion though.

    Watch this space :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,671 ✭✭✭✭ Inquitus


    The Lithuanian Central bank has announced it is probing the Bankera ICO.

    https://www.coindesk.com/lithuanias-central-bank-probes-100-million-euro-ico/
    "In addition, [the ICO] distributes its authorized [cryptocurrency] and has already attracted more than 80 million [euros]. Taking into account the features set out in the heading and based on the information provided by Bankera's business plan, it is concluded that this ICO falls within the scope of the Law on Securities, i.e. is considered a public offer, and therefore must be executed in accordance with the established requirements."


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    Inquitus wrote: »
    The Lithuanian Central bank has announced it is probing the Bankera ICO.

    https://www.coindesk.com/lithuanias-central-bank-probes-100-million-euro-ico/

    Most ICO’s will fall under this catergory going forward. Regulation is good for the industry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,671 ✭✭✭✭ Inquitus


    CryptoMad wrote: »
    Most ICO’s will fall under this catergory going forward. Regulation is good for the industry.

    Thing is they won't have met the standards required for a public offering, so the issue is what will the punishment be, and will it impact the value of their product, and by extension their ICO and its tokens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,671 ✭✭✭✭ Inquitus


    Researching further, Bankera are registered in the British Virgin Islands, much like Tether, Bitfinex and others, so do not come under the jurisdiction of the Lithuanian Central bank, or any EU Central bank, as such I can't see this probe having any real impact, to be honest. We will see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭ makeorbrake


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Researching further, Bankera are registered in the British Virgin Islands, much like Tether, Bitfinex and others, so do not come under the jurisdiction of the Lithuanian Central bank, or any EU Central bank, as such I can't see this probe having any real impact, to be honest. We will see.

    I can't figure out how they operate as a 'bank' whilst being registered in BVI. Surely, they will have to also register within the jurisdiction that they are going to trade in for banking purposes...OR...at least within the EU?

    Won't this be different to a crypto exchange as they're offering regular banking services alongside crypto related services?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ CryptoMad


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Researching further, Bankera are registered in the British Virgin Islands, much like Tether, Bitfinex and others, so do not come under the jurisdiction of the Lithuanian Central bank, or any EU Central bank, as such I can't see this probe having any real impact, to be honest. We will see.


    No comment.


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