Tyre company damage - options?

Ginger83

I left my car in for tyres today, got a call to say a lock nut is damaged and they cant get a wheel off.

Wheels were swapped few months ago no problems.

Was basically told go to a mechanic.

Where do i stand?

rex-x

Are you trying to say they damaged the key or nut?

punisher5112

Wheel nuts seize.

I would have thought they would have the gear to remove though.

colm_mcm

Ginger83 wrote: »

Where do i stand?

On the wheel brace.


Seriously though, the damage was probably caused the last time, guys just aren’t careful enough, and some lock nuts are crap.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Mech1

Airguns dont work well with locknuts, @ the tyre depot or at the mechanics.
Add to this the terrible design of some of them, its not really anybodies fault that they fail regularly.

Mech1

I really wish it was normal practice for the owner to remove before and replace after any wheel service work as then people would realize just what a poor solution they are.

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

Are you trying to say they damaged the key or nut?

The nut. The special socket will now not go on the head of bolt as it looks like it was hammered inwards.

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

The nut. The special socket will now not go on the head of bolt as it looks like it was hammered inwards.

Unfortunately the last time the wheels were put on it may have been damaged. Its not very likely the new garage have done the damage taking them off. They are often of poor and weak design and id recommend removing all 4 and replacing them with normal wheel nuts

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

Unfortunately the last time the wheels were put on it may have been damaged. Its not very likely the new garage have done the damage taking them off. They are often of poor and weak design and id recommend removing all 4 and replacing them with normal wheel nuts

My brother changed the wheels by hand, he was a tyre fitter for 5/6 years. There is a sleeve around bolt which looks like head of nut has been hammered into.

Couldn't have been done last time as the socket would not have fitted on it.

CeilingFly

Oh, lock nuts - I despise them and discarded them years ago.

Its the previous guys that are to blame, not the current ones. Lock nuts must be tightened manually and never with airguns.

Think it's bad for you...

I had blow out on rural road. Couldn't change at side of road.. Local garage towed me. They spent 3 hours trying everything. Then towed to Dungarvan, had an overnight stay, local tyre centre (brilliant) tried everything from soldering to drilling.

3pm they somehow got it off - new tyre on and off I went.

€100 towing, €89 hotel, €60 basic clothing change, and just a €200 charge by tyre centre for new tyre and all the work.

Yep, I HATE locknuts.

But it's definitely the previous crowd that are to blame.

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

My brother changed the wheels by hand, he was a tyre fitter for 5/6 years. There is a sleeve around bolt which looks like head of nut has been hammered into.

Couldn't have been done last time as the socket would not have fitted on it.

You cant really say he didnt damage them though. I understand what you are saying but really the only recourse you have is to pay to get them all removed and replaced with normal nuts. At least you wont have the concern anymore and it wont cost very much.

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

You cant really say he didnt damage them though. I understand what you are saying but really the only recourse you have is to pay to get them all removed and replaced with normal nuts. At least you wont have the concern anymore and it wont cost very much.

Sure i was there. He used a socket by hand. It went fine like the other 3, now the head is an inch deeper than the rest and the socket cant get into it.

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

Sure i was there. He used a socket by hand. It went fine like the other 3, now the head is an inch deeper than the rest and the socket cant get into it.

But it doesn't make any sense that the new garage would hammer anything in? Is it possible someone tried to steal your wheels and it went unnoticed? I mean there is a small chance it was the new garage but your odds of recourse are almost 0, for the headache id suck it up.

Del2005

Ginger83 wrote: »

Sure i was there. He used a socket by hand. It went fine like the other 3, now the head is an inch deeper than the rest and the socket cant get into it.

Unless they took the wheel off and refiitted it then it's the last person who did something wrong, just because he didn't use an air gun doesn't mean he correctly threaded them, any damage has been them trying to remove it.

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

But it doesn't make any sense that the new garage would hammer anything in? Is it possible someone tried to steal your wheels and it went unnoticed? I mean there is a small chance it was the new garage but your odds of recourse are almost 0, for the headache id suck it up.

Funny you should say that, i gave them the benefit of the doubt last time. Last time i had to stop at a garage, car shaking, they left a wheel loose.

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

Funny you should say that, i gave them the benefit of the doubt last time. Last time i had to stop at a garage, car shaking, they left a wheel loose.

The same garage? If so maybe id shop elsewhere in future

JohnBoy26

Ginger83 wrote: »

Funny you should say that, i gave them the benefit of the doubt last time. Last time i had to stop at a garage, car shaking, they left a wheel loose.

You're suppose to check the wheels nuts after 50km after getting the tyres changed as the nuts can come loose and will in some cases need re tightening. This warning is displayed in most tyre shops.

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

The same garage? If so maybe id shop elsewhere in future

That doesn't help me now, i've 3 new tyres and a bald 1

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

That doesn't help me now, i've 3 new tyres and a bald 1

A mechanic will get the locknut off quite easily, just bring it somewhere tomorrow and get it sorted then get the tyre swapped?

Ginger83

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

You're suppose to check the wheels nuts after 50km after getting the tyres changed as the nuts can come loose and will in some cases need re tightening. This warning is displayed in most tyre shops.

I had done 3 miles!

JohnBoy26

Ginger83 wrote: »

I had done 3 miles!

Not good then. Id say find a new tyre place the next time.

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

A mechanic will get the locknut off quite easily, just bring it somewhere tomorrow and get it sorted then get the tyre swapped?

I think its amazing its a case of wasn't us f off.

I've a good mind to tell them to take other 3 tyres off and give me my money back.

wexie

Ginger83 wrote: »

I think its amazing its a case of wasn't us f off.

I've a good mind to tell them to take other 3 tyres off and give me my money back.

You'll have a helluva time getting to a different garage driving on your rims though...

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

I think its amazing its a case of wasn't us f off.

I've a good mind to tell them to take other 3 tyres off and give me my money back.

I understand your mindset but i'm telling you the odds it was them is actually not that big. The man who delivers the bad news with locking nuts is always blamed and considering they succeeded with 3 wheels why would the 4th one be an issue? Just trying to balance out the situation for you here.

Ginger83

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Not good then. Id say find a new tyre place the next time.

This is a big very well known company.

wexie

Ginger83 wrote: »

This is a big very well known company.

Kinda like national chain type place or locally big/well known?

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

I understand your mindset but i'm telling you the odds it was them is actually not that big. The man who delivers the bad news with locking nuts is always blamed and considering they succeeded with 3 wheels why would the 4th one be an issue? Just trying to balance out the situation for you here.

I reckon it was the 1st wheel they went at. A young lad didn't realise there was a different shaped nut.

Ginger83

wexie wrote: »

Kinda like national chain type place or locally big/well known?

Bailieborough Cavan well known

JohnBoy26

Ginger83 wrote: »

This is a big very well known company.

A good tyre place will always torque the nuts after changing the tyres.

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

I reckon it was the 1st wheel they went at. A young lad didn't realise there was a different shaped nut.

That is possible of course but you don't know that for sure and certainly cant prove it so id treat them as innocent until proven guilty. I have seen this problem so many times and it is *almost* never the garages fault.

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

That is possible of course but you don't know that for sure and certainly cant prove it so id treat them as innocent until proven guilty. I have seen this problem so many times and it is *almost* never the garages fault.

So how did the bolt end up sunken into a sleeve by hand?

Ginger83

wexie wrote: »

You'll have a helluva time getting to a different garage driving on your rims though...

They'd have to put old 1s back on obviously.

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

So how did the bolt end up sunken into a sleeve by hand?

I don't know and neither do you? Its possible someone tried an failed to steal your alloys/alloy. What kind of car is it out of interest?

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

I don't know and neither do you? Its possible someone tried an failed to steal your alloys/alloy. What kind of car is it out of interest?

Its a wheelchair accessible Citroen Berlingo.

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

Its a wheelchair accessible Citroen Berlingo.

Are the nuts this style:

or this

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

Are the nuts this style:

or this

The small pic

rex-x

And what do you say is the damage exactly? Those are by far the most fragile style of locking wheel nut in my experience

here is a better pic:

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

And what do you say is the damage exactly? Those are by far the most fragile style of locking wheel nut in my experience

here is a better pic:

It looks like the head is inside a ring or circular sleeve and the socket cant get at it.

rex-x

You would really need to post a picture but if the damage is anything other than is visible in the picture above its exceptionally unlikely the garage has done it. It is not possible to push the center inwards, its one solid piece all the way to the thread.

1874

rex-x wrote: »

Unfortunately the last time the wheels were put on it may have been damaged. Its not very likely the new garage have done the damage taking them off. They are often of poor and weak design and id recommend removing all 4 and replacing them with normal wheel nuts

Not necessarily,
How can anyone of us say for sure? I'd a similar problem, meant to rotate the tyres front to back on the wifes car to even out the wear years after we bought it, thankfully never had a flat on that trye in between, it was obviously seized and when I knew that, just had to keep going, the stud sheared off, the last person at it was the place that fitted the tyres.

In this case, the OP is saying the place in question could not get the wheel off as the locking nut/stud is damaged, in that case it seems like it would most likely be the current crowd especially as he knows they were done by hand the last time. Id have thought it would make sense to not attack a nut/stud with a locking device with an impact driver? obviously not, not something I thought Id have to consider but guess I'll take that into consideration in the future.

Most places are over enthusiastic with the pneumatic drivers anyway and plenty of the people in that kinf of place have limited experience or training in my opinion and dont seem to understand despite frequently using the equipment that you shouldnt drive studs/nuts on without turning them up by hand.


If those pictures are of the OPs locknuts then it looks like someone damaged them while removing them,

rex-x

1874 wrote: »

Not necessarily,
How can anyone of us say for sure? I'd a similar problem, meant to rotate the tyres front to back on the wifes car to even out the wear years after we bought it, thankfully never had a flat on that trye in between, it was obviously seized and when I knew that, just had to keep going, the stud sheared off, the last person at it was the place that fitted the tyres.

In this case, the OP is saying the place in question could not get the wheel off as the locking nut/stud is damaged, in that case it seems like it would most likely be the current crowd especially as he knows they were done by hand the last time. Id have thought it would make sense to not attack a nut/stud with a locking device with an impact driver? obviously not, not something I thought Id have to consider but guess I'll take that into consideration in the future.

Most places are over enthusiastic with the pneumatic drivers anyway and plenty of the people in that kinf of place have limited experience or training in my opinion and dont seem to understand despite frequently using the equipment that you shouldnt drive studs/nuts on without turning them up by hand.


If those pictures are of the OPs locknuts then it looks like someone damaged them while removing them,

None of us can say for sure which is my point. I'm only talking from my experiences from being a mechanic.

A wheel nut even properly torqued can easily seize up within a few weeks and be very hard to remove.

Those are not the OP's actual nuts, just the same style.

Ginger83

rex-x wrote: »

You would really need to post a picture but if the damage is anything other than is visible in the picture above its exceptionally unlikely the garage has done it. It is not possible to push the center inwards, its one solid piece all the way to the thread.

I will post a pic in the morning, its dark out and snowing here.

Any way of removing it?

rex-x

Ginger83 wrote: »

I will post a pic in the morning, its dark out and snowing here.

Any way of removing it?

If you can get a pic it will be easier to advise An air hammer makes very easy work of Peugeot nuts.

Audioslaven

Ginger83 wrote: »

I will post a pic in the morning, its dark out and snowing here.

Any way of removing it?

weld a socket/Nut to it and rachet it off.

Ginger83

Audioslaven wrote: »

weld a socket/Nut to it and rachet it off.

Would that damage the wheel

1874

rex-x wrote: »

If you can get a pic it will be easier to advise An air hammer makes very easy work of Peugeot nuts.

Wasnt that likely the problem,

Audioslaven wrote: »

weld a socket/Nut to it and rachet it off.

they seem to protrude a bit, how about spray a bit of WD40 nearest where the stud goes into the rim, wait a bit for it to work its way down the thread and do its thing and then get a large vice grip on it at an angle sufficient to miss the tyre/rim, whoever does this will have to get a turn on the vice grips and remove and repeat until it is sufficiently loose to remove by putting the grips straight on the nut, if the wheel stud (nut) threads were ok the last time going in and not damaged, it should come off, Id suggest initially not placing the car significantly on the jack as it might require a bit of effort, but loosening the other nuts a bit might help and so a bit of weight off the wheel might also help by jacking it up slightly, I dont know why the place removing it couldnt offer a suggestion like that? surely they must come up against this kind of problem and have to solve it?

rex-x

1874 wrote: »

Wasnt that likely the problem,



they seem to protrude a bit, how about spray a bit of WD40 nearest where the stud goes into the rim, wait and then get a large vice grip on it at an angle sufficient to miss the tyre/rim, if the wheel stud (nut) threads were ok the last time going in and not damaged, it should come off, I dont know why the place removing it couldnt offer a suggestion like that? surely they must come up against this kind of problem and have to solve it?

No an air hammer and an impact gun are very different tools.... and neither has done the damage the Op describes. Vice grips will do nothing

air hammer:

1874

rex-x wrote: »

No an air hammer and an impact gun are very different tools.... and neither has done the damage the Op describes. Vice grips will do nothing

air hammer:

Yeh, I thought you were referring to an impact driver, I didnt realise you meant for them to chisel the stud off.
If the threads are ok (not cross threaded which the OP seems to think), I dont see why you think a vice grips will be ineffective? there seems to be sufficient material to grip.
I still dont understand how the place that could not remove the stud, could still not offer a solution to the problem.

Vronsky

Those Peugeot/Citroen lock nuts are a bastard to get off once they have been abused by an air gun. A well known tyre outlet ruined one of mine - noticed it week or so later when I inspected the wheels. Nowhere could get it off apart from the main dealer (I didn't want it welded as it would burn the paint). €100 to get it off ffs with them.

You'd think a tyre place would know not to use the gun on these since they're changing tyres all the time. That said I should have been suspicious when the clown in the tyre place gave my wheel nut key to another customer, who thankfully was alert enough to notice the mistake.

Never again back to that tyre place.

Other methods I've heard for removal are to drive with all the other nuts loose on that wheel for a mile or so at town speeds. All the weight on one nut helps to open it in told -i didn't try this myself as it sounded too dangerous. Chiselling sometimes works, but it's hard to get purchase and will damage alloys. There's also a special tool that can be bought for about £200 which drills them out and some garages have it, but I didn't find one.

Ginger83

1874 wrote: »

Yeh, I thought you were referring to an impact driver, I didnt realise you meant for them to chisel the stud off.
If the threads are ok (not cross threaded which the OP seems to think), I dont see why you think a vice grips will be ineffective? there seems to be sufficient material to grip.
I still dont understand how the place that could not remove the stud, could still not offer a solution to the problem.

And they do other stuff like sand blasting metal, etc