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Future and potential Star Wars films - news and speculation

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,193 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Well in this purely speculative TV show, who's to say Finn doesn't experience some delayed PTSD, triggered only once the immediate crisis' of events from the films have passed. Or perhaps he's getting on with his life, when he accidentally bumps into someone from his childhood and - boom - flashback. Lots of different creative, if not especially original, ways to bring his mental conditioning into a serialised plot with contradiction.

    I'd be very surprised if Disney doesn't, eventually, dip its toes back into this post RotJ period - once it feels the reputation and goodwill is suitably restored via all these obviously fan-pleasing TV series (shows for Boba Fett, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan; while season 2 of Mando was definitely more "fan service" oriented in places - albeit not always detrimentally). The new trilogy is obviously done and dusted, and pragmatically wouldn't expect any production to touch anything from it, but you'd imagine the door is open for some kind of new story. Can't have nostalgia forever.

    As to Boyega, last I read he was being publicly miffed his character was effectively sidelined in Rise of Skywalker - which, well. Fair point like 'cos he absolutely was. Having gone from one of the three main characters of Episode VII to a "just glad to be here" face in the background; that's gotta chaff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,131 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Thought Finn was a stupid character and made no sense myself. A conditioned stormtrooper in a strict military organisation since he was a child, but somehow the whooping idiotic comic relief of the piece? That was just nonsense from the off. He really should have been a serious, conflicted, character dealing with his past and the things he did in it (yeh I know he cleaned toilets, but let's no go there). The massacre on the planet at the opening of 'The Force Awakens' should have been the last straw for him in a long series of massacres perpetrated in the name of the First Order and should have started his journey on the road to a redemption of sorts. The comedy, if there needed to be any really, could have come from a fish out of water situation with him trying to find his feet outside of the FO.

    Instead the film makers just wanted a Han Solo stand in for the "new" characters, all of which were incapable of standing on their own two feet.

    Frankly, I'd have switched actors for the roles of Finn and Poe. Have Issacc as Finn and have him be a darker, more troubled geezer (he could do that easy enough) and have Boyega as the mouthy, hot shot, pilot with the wise cracks, which he could also do with relative ease.

    As for the sequels being irredeemable, I disagree Pix. They are just beyond saving at this point as is the whole of the ST universe. I also think Disney have realised this too, because everything they try in that sphere falls flat or is shelved/cancelled in favour of going back to what fans really want to see and the actual foreseeable future of Star Wars under Disney looks to be centred around that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Wedwood


    I watched Empire Strikes Back last night for the first time in ages and thought that the closest Lucasfilm have got to this standard of storytelling over the last 40 years is the Mandalorian.

    The sequel trilogy started off well enough, it was Last Jedi that really screwed up the new characters. Rey had her wins in the first movie and should have been left defeated by Snoke and barely escape in Last Jedi to set up a final showdown with him in the final instalment. Instead, we got that awful scene with her laughing in the Millenium Falcon while she’s supposed to be trying to save her friends from certain death on Crait which took any sense of urgency out of the scene. Contrast that with the ESB Falcon rescue scene in Cloud City where they go back to save Luke and barely escape from Vader. The actors play it straight and the light relief is left to the droids.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    It is how I felt watching Force Awakens.

    doubt very much Issac’s heart was broken. He was a fan knew these films were bad from the start.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    Nah, all Finn’s potential is gone.

    Sequels never had a hope really when they decided the villains would be a crap version of the original villains.

    without question Boyega was sidelined - but who did he sim his ire at? He specifically removed Abrams - the writer/director - from any blame. Made it all seem like he wanted to rant but knew Abrams would be good for a few gigs in the future.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    Those first two paragraphs sim up my thoughts exactly in a much better way than I previously articulated. ;) And not only is Finn not conflicted - he gleefully murders the people who like him have been conditioned against their will.

    Disagree about reversing the roles though - the films showed that Poe had no way to go whatsoever and they should have stuck to the original plan for him and have him killed unexpectedly in the crash. It was one of the few good and original ideas in the whole trilogy.

    agree too that there is no redemption for the trilogy - how did it all go do wrong



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    Rogue One and Solo are great movies (I know many disagree about the latter). They fit in easily with the Lucas movies - however there is something very Empire Strikes Back about Mando.

    I think Last Jedi is the better of the three because of Hamill’s performance and the lightsabre duel and because Johnson tried things different. Having Rey suffer big loses the second film would just have been even more aping of the OT.

    she suffered no loses at all but they were more concerned with not having a woman lose than with creating a good story for her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,131 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    None of the ST "characters" had any where to go though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    How hard would it have been to make a Star Wars movie trilogy not involving stormtroopers or a Vader knock off?

    Thirty years later, Luke has only managed to train a handful of Jedi. Has a son/daughter who is a Jedi (or maybe no Force powers). Republic is back but not powerful like before with a lot of independent systems (although I prefer the not so great struggling Republic in The Mandolorian). Trouble kicks off when there is an invasion from the a unknown Regions or Mandolore starts a war. (Honestly Abrams picked replicating stormtroopers over an army of Boba Fetts ?? )

    this was before Favereau of course



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    Actually I read a great outline for a Skywalker trilogy last year. Don’t know what website.

    the gist was take the big galactic conflict out of it and have it as Luke and his family (the old gang plus the kids) up against another family (rich industrialist or such) that is out for power with the heroes in the way or revenge against the heroes. Or maybe they don’t want the Jedi back?

    villains can have a private army and use Mercenaries and it could really get into the galactic underworld.

    rather than a big epic space battle of fleets it could focus on just Han and Chewie in the Falcon against a mini fleet of assorted ships - show what they can do and that would be even more epic



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,266 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    I know, I just love that Bart 'pinpoint' meme. Probably more accurate to say this is the moment where Isaac is unable to prevent his disdain for the direction of the story from coming through on screen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,266 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Here's how Lucas's plans for the sequels would have worked out much better than the dogs dinner we got

    A new book, The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, details the film-maker’s abandoned plans for the first time. The horrifying thing is that they would have made a lot more sense than bringing back the Emperor from the dead, turning Luke into a moaning wimp (though I still have a soft spot for The Last Jedi) and having Han Solo’s emo-Sith son commit patricide.

    It seems Lucas would have kickstarted the new trilogy almost immediately after the end of Return of the Jedi, mining the same furrow that the incredible The Mandalorian is working within on TV. 



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,321 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    George Lucas had his chance and blew it. The last time he wrote a worthwhile script was back in 1977 (and yes, I'm aware he wrote Return of the Jedi).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,193 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    In retrospect, maybe the damage was done in Force Awakens in the long run (and I sometimes think not just with Star Wars, but "nerd" pop-culture itself): notwithstanding all the various plot points teased and either unanswered or had garbage explanations (classic Abrams), that film's shallow rebadging of A New Hope and its various attempts to please fans with borderline worshipful tropes kinda set the tone for this flood of nostalgia passing as entertainment we're living in. No new stories, just Say The Thing You Say, or Do The Thing You Do.

    You can definitely thread the needle and do both - new stories with familiar beats and that's where Mandalorian succeeded at its best - but Rise of Skywalker was what happened when that desperation to placate its grumpiest fans went into overdrive. It still made a billion dollars, but certainly there was no way Disney took that as the sole árbiter of success.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    The Sequel Trilogy isn’t just the result of trying to please fans.

    it was doom from the very moment Abrams came on board (and I was a person who approved of him getting the job at the time) and you just have to watch the making of feature for Force Awakens to see it. The way they were declaring their love for this and that - I’d say those most of the day just st themselves



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    Anyways…

    I read recently that much of season 3 of Mando is being filmed without Pedro Pascal (who is tied up with The Last of Us) and that they’ve been using the stunt double in his place.

    any truth to that?

    Is there also a separate guy who plays Mando when gunplay is required? I haven’t seen all the Gallery episodes but I have it in my head that they said this and I thought that is the oddest thing - why would they need a stuntman for that?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,193 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Haven't seen this Making Of, but not sure I'd immediately classify an enthusiasm for a property a bad thing. The last Trek film before (as it happens) Abrams took the reigns was made by a director who had never seen a single episode of Trek in his life. It's a good start to have a production team enthused or attentive to the property.

    Anyway. None of us can know the inner thinking of Disney executives pre 2017,but I'd make a fairly bold guess that after the now well-documented and prosecuted prequels, the Mouse House wanted a safe, Sure Thing to show the world hey, we get Star Wars. Enter the the nerd in Hollywood with biggest clout. With a habit of teasing with no payoff but that's another segue again.

    Apparently Pascal has played Mando, helmeted up with the exception of stunt work. TBH I can't say I've ever noticed the benefit of it, so if it's "just" a stand in for a spell, cool



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    It wasn’t enthusiasm believe me. Having people who Trek around Abrams didn’t help - for all his talk about the Prequels you’d think Pegg would have known better.

    I can understand wanting to play it safe - coping so much of the OT and the Expanded Universe was going too far.

    I know Pascal plays Mando in the helmet but I’m certain that in the behind scenes series that they talk about a second stuntman who does all the action involving blasters.

    are you saying you don’t see the benefit of Pascal playing the character when the helmet is on? If he didn’t then he wouldn’t be the star. Can’t have hi. Do just voice and the occasional appearance.

    I was expecting Mando to go without the helmet more in season 3 (with Bo-Katan explaining more about Death Watch early on) and Mando questioning all he was thought. Having a stuntman in his place - if it true - probably means I’m wrong.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,193 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I just assumed at the start Pascal would be merely lending his voice; was surprised when I heard he was actually present, in-bucket as it were. Or that they intentionally wrote him wearing it all the time through religious zeal. The role itself has never been especially physical that Pascal gave it any particular individualism. While "star" is just a contractual agreement, just means he's paid then most lol; Doom Patrol "stars" Brendan Fraser lending his voice, with someone else playing his physical self. Anyway; either way Pascal has played the role well - especially those moments when he HAS taken the helmet off.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,674 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Afaik Pascal wasn't really around for season 1 so Mando was mostly played by a double/stunt man.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,377 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Barry Lowin is credited with the mandalorian stunts for both seasons. He is credited with seven non-stunt appearances as the mandalorian in season 2. it seems that any non-stunt work in season 1 was all pedro.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    Well I meant if he was only doing the voice then the show wouldn’t have a real star.

    In Doom Patrol it is different as it is an ensemble -

    isn’t Matt Boomer a voice only part too?

    EDIT: what in trying to say isn’t coming out right



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,781 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    The disrespect that SW fans have towards Lucas is insane. There is nothing without him and most of what you're enjoying from Disney is designed to harvest nostalgia by stripping deliberate ambiguity from some of the most beloved characters he created.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,321 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    All due respect to George Lucas - he made some very fine films in the 70s, and had a clear guiding role on The Empire Strikes Back (even if he handed the big jobs over to others). His success and riches are deserved. However, Return of the Jedi remains a pretty ho-hum film and the prequel films are truly some of the most appallingly written and directed major blockbusters ever made. He had a blank check, and we saw what we got. He’s also famously gone back and made his original films worse: those inferior versions now the ones widely accessible, in a deeply unfortunate act of self-sabotage.

    As much as I love TLJ, I think Rise of Skywalker is a particularly ugly, cynical film. There was no doubt a better way to do this series and these characters justice. I am extremely critical and ambivalent about most of Disney era Star Wars - including Rogue One and the Mandalorian (the latter due to a deeply unsatisfying and obnoxiously fan servicey season two, after a promising, enjoyable first). Regardless, there is nothing in George Lucas’ track record over the last 30-40 years to suggest he would have delivered a great sequel series. Quite the opposite, in fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,781 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    I agree with a lot of what you said. Although it's obviously impossible, the best thing for Star Wars post-George Lucas would have been no more Star Wars - at least on-screen. The story was told.

    I baulk at the concept of SW fans unquestionably calling it "The Skywalker Saga" - that was the whole point! Disney's acquisition is so the worst of two worlds - it's startingly unoriginal (Palpatine's back! Boba Fett's back! We repainted a few 'new' ships/Stormtroopers) and lacks the gravitas lended to SW by how rare it was.

    Now we have an endless cycle of stories that only exist to ensure the franchise attempts to mimic the insatiable appetite of MCU fans. That's impossible because by its very nature the MCU has to expand outwards (and to younger and more diverse audiences) while Disney can only move inwards and backwards to 1977.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Need a Username


    Okay. I’m kind of ruining the magic for myself by asking about it :p



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,266 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    I broadly agree with this but I can't honestly regret the existence of The Mandalorian or Rogue One. In my ideal world, Lucas would have decided the original trilogy stands alone, no prequels or sequels that purport to be episode 1, 7, whatever of the saga. But he would have left the door open to films or tv series that fill in around the edges of the main story as some of the new stuff is doing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,530 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    The only scene it's him in the amour in season 1 is the bit before he takes the helmet off while injured.

    They talked about it in the round table thing, that the only time he put the helmet he then instantly walked into something and hurt himself so after a doctor visit they filmed the injured scene then joked that not all of that is makeup.

    The stunt double is in addition to 2 other actors playing the part,  Lateef Crowder and Brendan Wayne. With Crowder doing a lot of it unless they needed Wayne (yes he's a relation to John Wayne) to up the gunslinger aspect.



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