Hairy weanlings

390kid

Well ? I have a few weanlings here with nice hair on them is there anything I can use to clean them up a bit before selling. There on slats and moving them off them isn't a option. Thanks

kay 9

Unless it's really caked in **** a pressure washer from a distance.
I've used snow foam before lol

Muckit

Shave their backs

50HX

https://www.agridirect.ie/product/perth-curry-comb-5

i used something like this on a few ch weanlings before sale last year, then a shot of the washer,

they'd wantto be kept in a yard to keep em some way clean after doin this....back on slats they will get caked in sh1t again

bogman_bass

Does it matter?

bogman_bass

Does it matter?

50HX

bogman_bass wrote: »

Does it matter?

i only did it for the few ch weanlings i had as they were nice n shapey esp in the hind quarters and i wanted to show them up as best i could

300kg made 880e so maybe it was worth the effort...will never know:D

Muckit

You'd see more and more lads in the pens at comm wean marts and they curry combing to beat the band. Can't do any harm

Robson99

Any decent stockman can see through a bit of ****. Some lads spend the day in the pen coming them. It aint thoroughbred horses they are selling

What I do notice is that the quality of weanlings / cattle being produced is falling rapidly. Its getting harder and harder to get good quality continental cattle. From what I can see this star rating is a load of tarmac. The length and frame is being bred out of cattle. More and more looking for smaller cows which in turn are leading to short stumpy cattle that at best will go into 350kg carcass. Finding it hard to source / buy heifers that have a frame to carry 400kg+ carcass
IMO the idea of a suckler benefit scheme is a load of nonsense. Produce good quality and you will get paid for it

TITANIUM.

Robson99 wrote: »

Any decent stockman can see through a bit of ****. Some lads spend the day in the pen coming them. It aint thoroughbred horses they are selling

What I do notice is that the quality of weanlings / cattle being produced is falling rapidly. Its getting harder and harder to get good quality continental cattle. From what I can see this star rating is a load of tarmac. The length and frame is being bred out of cattle. More and more looking for smaller cows which in turn are leading to short stumpy cattle that at best will go into 350kg carcass. Finding it hard to source / buy heifers that have a frame to carry 400kg+ carcass
IMO the idea of a suckler benefit scheme is a load of nonsense. Produce good quality and you will get paid for it

But lads aren't being paid for um, that's the problem. Even when decent quality is apparently becoming increasingly scarce

Robson99

TITANIUM. wrote: »

But lads aren't being paid for um, that's the problem. Even when decent quality is apparently becoming increasingly scarce

Good quality weanlings can make € 2.80 / kg upwards
Poor quality are nowhere near that. Of course lads selling weanlings for € 500 - € 700 cant make money at it. But its up to them to improve on the quality of what they are selling. Give them lads € 200 per cow and all they will do in increase the no of poor quality they are breeding

patsy_mccabe

A neighbour of mine who finishes a lot of cattle said the same thing to me recently. The quality of weanlings has gone way down he reckons.
Hard to know the reason why. Big framey cont type cows will produce a good weanling but if they are costing a fortune to keep and only calve every 400 days, then what good are they? The guy producing the poorer weanling may actually be making more money on them. He may be getting less for his weanlings, but he's getting a weanling from every cow, every year.

Robson99

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

A neighbour of mine who finishes a lot of cattle said the same thing to me recently. The quality of weanlings has gone way down he reckons.
Hard to know the reason why. Big framey cont type cows will produce a good weanling but if they are costing a fortune to keep and only calve every 400 days, then what good are they? The guy producing the poorer weanling may actually be making more money on them. He may be getting less for his weanlings, but he's getting a weanling from every cow, every year.

Is he getting a weanling from every cow every year ?? What proof is there to say the poor cow delivers more calves than the better one ??? Not being smart ...just curious

croot

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

A neighbour of mine who finishes a lot of cattle said the same thing to me recently. The quality of weanlings has gone way down he reckons.
Hard to know the reason why. Big framey cont type cows will produce a good weanling but if they are costing a fortune to keep and only calve every 400 days, then what good are they? The guy producing the poorer weanling may actually be making more money on them. He may be getting less for his weanlings, but he's getting a weanling from every cow, every year.

I think there is something to the ICBF star system affecting bull choices. A lot moved away from charlaois. Two neighboring farmers who always had very good weanling’s switched to lim and saler on purely index chasing grounds. They have good cows but all were low stars because of charlaois in their breeding. The fear of having to pay back 5 years of the BGDB payment has caused this imo.

TITANIUM.

Robson99 wrote: »

Good quality weanlings can make € 2.80 / kg upwards
Poor quality are nowhere near that. Of course lads selling weanlings for € 500 - € 700 cant make money at it. But its up to them to improve on the quality of what they are selling. Give them lads € 200 per cow and all they will do in increase the no of poor quality they are breeding

They CAN sometimes your right. Theres no gurantees there.More often then not most of the lads around the ring on a normal sale day wouldn't know what to do with a top quality weanling. Their buying with a upper price limit in their head regardless of the animal.

patsy_mccabe

Robson99 wrote: »

Is he getting a weanling from every cow every year ?? What proof is there to say the poor cow delivers more calves than the better one ??? Not being smart ...just curious

Well ICBF would know from inputted data which cows are delivering the goods.
It depends what you mean by a Poor Cow. A good cow should be a profitable cow.
There does seem to be 2 types of bulls out there. Some breed terminal type cattle and some maternal types. The maternal type would be milky and fertile but may not have the shapey weanling.
The really good bulls produce both types.

50HX

Robson99 wrote: »

Good quality weanlings can make € 2.80 / kg upwards
Poor quality are nowhere near that. Of course lads selling weanlings for € 500 - € 700 cant make money at it. But its up to them to improve on the quality of what they are selling. Give them lads € 200 per cow and all they will do in increase the no of poor quality they are breeding

and do you think there's great money to be made if you r selling weanlings at 900-1000?? v 700

Robson99

50HX wrote: »

and do you think there's great money to be made if you r selling weanlings at 900-1000?? v 700

No I am not saying that, but at least the man selling at € 900 or € 1,000 is or should be making money. If hes not he should pack it in. € 200- € 300 a head is a big difference.

50HX

Robson99 wrote: »

No I am not saying that, but at least the man selling at € 900 or € 1,000 is or should be making money. If hes not he should pack it in. € 200- € 300 a head is a big difference.

horses for course i'm afraid

they last of my big shapey cows are getting the road this year - yes they leave a weanling price of 900+ but they are going for the following reasons

calving interval too high
weight of cow on average land is excessive
cost of feed v lighter cows 800kg v 550/600kg

factor in these costs off the price of the weanling and your left with your 700e weanling off a lighter,milkier more fertile cow - no brainer in my book

i agree with earlier post re quality of cont cattle decreasing tho

that's just my situation - every1 is different

TITANIUM.

50HX wrote: »

horses for course i'm afraid

they last of my big shapey cows are getting the road this year - yes they leave a weanling price of 900+ but they are going for the following reasons

calving interval too high
weight of cow on average land is excessive
cost of feed v lighter cows 800kg v 550/600kg

factor in these costs off the price of the weanling and your left with your 700e weanling off a lighter,milkier more fertile cow - no brainer in my book

i agree with earlier post re quality of cont cattle decreasing tho

that's just my situation - every1 is different

There are plenty of lads not just downsizing but getting out of the suckler game completely. Changing systems mainly to beef in these parts. As a few have said the BDGP has seen allot of lads radically overhaul their systems for what is, small money.

TBH 50 if your selling your weanlings for an average of 700euro. I don't care how small and fertile the cows are. I can't see much left when you sell your calf. Unless your aiming for a break even and keep your subs.

Myself I don't like poor quality cattle. Mainly because it means poor return. Plus i dont like looking at the fcukers.
Sucklers can be allot more work then most people realise, particularly if your breeding the higher quality stuff. But as you say everbody is different and some lads dont have either the time, the dedication, the urge or the love of cattle to put in the effort.

Apologies to the op if we're hijacking your thread.

50HX

i hear ya, selling between 700-800 average,

calving as close to grass as possible keeps the cost down big time

i've everything cut to the bone as much as i can

cows get a pre calver mineral, silage and a dose - that's it

no bells n whistles around the place and not over stocked

i've a v v small twist out of em & my bps/glas/bdgp to myself

part time so i think less is more in the suckler game

thinking of reducing cows and finishing a few every year - less labour but finishing is another black art at the mo

ditto to the op

Hard Knocks

TITANIUM. wrote: »

There are plenty of lads not just downsizing but getting out of the suckler game completely. Changing systems mainly to beef in these parts. As a few have said the BDGP has seen allot of lads radically overhaul their systems for what is, small money.

TBH 50 if your selling your weanlings for an average of 700euro. I don't care how small and fertile the cows are. I can't see much left when you sell your calf. Unless your aiming for a break even and keep your subs.

Myself I don't like poor quality cattle. Mainly because it means poor return. Plus i dont like looking at the fcukers.
Sucklers can be allot more work then most people realise, particularly if your breeding the higher quality stuff. But as you say everbody is different and some lads dont have either the time, the dedication, the urge or the love of cattle to put in the effort.

Apologies to the op if we're hijacking your thread.

Notice around here Due to the work getting more plentiful & further away there lads don’t want to calve cows (in case something goes wrong), calves cows are a rob & then sell dry following spring & buy again

Bass Reeves

TITANIUM. wrote: »

There are plenty of lads not just downsizing but getting out of the suckler game completely. Changing systems mainly to beef in these parts. As a few have said the BDGP has seen allot of lads radically overhaul their systems for what is, small money.

TBH 50 if your selling your weanlings for an average of 700euro. I don't care how small and fertile the cows are. I can't see much left when you sell your calf. Unless your aiming for a break even and keep your subs.

Myself I don't like poor quality cattle. Mainly because it means poor return. Plus i dont like looking at the fcukers.
Sucklers can be allot more work then most people realise, particularly if your breeding the higher quality stuff. But as you say everbody is different and some lads dont have either the time, the dedication, the urge or the love of cattle to put in the effort.

Apologies to the op if we're hijacking your thread.

It is a chicken and egg situation. Bigger cow better quality weanling higher cost, lighter cow lesser quality weanling lower costs. In the Derrypatrick herd they have shown that LMXFR cows out preform most other cows. But they are carrying bulls to finish. This is where 50HX is coming from.

A 550kg cow can be got out earlier and kept outside longer and will eat less silage inside. Compared to a 800kg cow she will eat 5kg/s of DM per day less at least. Most as well will fatten in grass so this can be used to reduce intake as well. If you can reduce your winter to 110 days compared to mabe 150 for bigger cows you save another 40 days feeding.

Feed required by this 550kg cow will be 1.2 tons of DM for a winter. The 800kg cow will require 2.4 tons of DM. The cost of keeping a suckler cow on good land is totally different to a cow on poorer land. the 1.2T of silage could come from 5.5 bales of dryish silage. The 800kg cow on poor land might require 14 bales and struggle to keep condition on. Difference in cost on silage alone might be 200 euro.

Lad with lighter cow on better land would be getting all weanling weight off grass while farmer with heavier cow on poorer land may need to feed some ration to some cows after calving another 10-15 euro. Add in creep at another 10-15 euro and costs just keep climbing up.

I finished bulls a few years ago. I did it for 2-3 years killing as sub 2 year old b bulls. The best bulls I found were black white head LM bulls. I had a few that came from Dursey Island and west Cork. The out weighted everything else and because they got fatcover on they graded very well. Some killed up on 500kgs DW. They were the same average weight as the rest comining in.

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is a chicken and egg situation. Bigger cow better quality weanling higher cost, lighter cow lesser quality weanling lower costs. In the Derrypatrick herd they have shown that LMXFR cows out preform most other cows. But they are carrying bulls to finish. This is where 50HX is coming from.

Feed required by this 550kg cow will be 1.2 tons of DM for a winter. The 800kg cow will require 2.4 tons of DM. The cost of keeping a suckler cow on good land is totally different to a cow on poorer land. the 1.2T of silage could come from 5.5 bales of dryish silage. The 800kg cow on poor land might require 14 bales and struggle to keep condition on.

Dairy cows eat 18kg/dm and they are only 650kgs. Id imagine a lm x fr would eat 14kg/dm and the 800kg beef cow would eat 16kgs?

patsy_mccabe

Small cows with big hips that calve easily. Big easy calving bull. Weanlings will be a cross between both afer all.

Bass Reeves

charolais0153 wrote: »

Dairy cows eat 18kg/dm and they are only 650kgs. Id imagine a lm x fr would eat 14kg/dm and the 800kg beef cow would eat 16kgs?

Maybe she would maybe she would not. If you adjust that she eats mabe 2kgs more and the 800kg beef cow still remains the same you are talking about a bale more per winter which adjusts the cost by 25 euro. However you have to still factor in calving interval maybe 30-40 days or 10% of calf cost

Mooooo

charolais0153 wrote: »

Dairy cows eat 18kg/dm and they are only 650kgs. Id imagine a lm x fr would eat 14kg/dm and the 800kg beef cow would eat 16kgs?

Depends when your feeding em, dairy cows during lactation would eat 18 to 23 kgs dm, when dry it's down to 12 to 14 probably. It's the output of milk takes a lot of it. A dairy cow raising a calf or two wouldn't need what a cow going into the tank would

orchard farm

We all love breeding quality stock but i think change is in the air,here in the northwest lads have 15-20 elephants in seven months,costin a fortune in meal,etc.producing great calves but loosin money when alls added up.time to get back to basics produce weanings cheaply off the hills that means smaller cows smaller calves.cover costs and keep payments is only future in my opinion,better farms shouldnt be rearing calves they should be fattening or dairy or tillage in my opinion

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Maybe she would maybe she would not. If you adjust that she eats mabe 2kgs more and the 800kg beef cow still remains the same you are talking about a bale more per winter which adjusts the cost by 25 euro. However you have to still factor in calving interval maybe 30-40 days or 10% of calf cost

Why does a smaller cow necessarily have a shorter calving interval than a bigger cow

Never wrestle with pigs

charolais0153 wrote: »

Why does a smaller cow necessarily have a shorter calving interval than a bigger cow

Not all the time but they can be more fertile as they don't need the same amount of energy to survive so any extra can be put into reserve faster and easier than a big cow and kickstart the body into reproductive mode quicker than the big cow that takes an extra few weeks to hit the sweet spot.

Hard Knocks

Strangely I’ve bigger cows easier fed than smaller ones
Allot to feeding a cow over winter is the condition she’s in at shedding

charolais0153

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Not all the time but they can be more fertile as they don't need the same amount of energy to survive so any extra can be put into reserve faster and easier than a big cow and kickstart the body into reproductive mode quicker than the big cow that takes an extra few weeks to hit the sweet spot.

But they are eating more to compensate for the bigger body?

Never wrestle with pigs

But spending more time eating less time resting and using more energy. It's not always the case but some of my small girls are very fertile little feckers.

Bass Reeves

Bigger cows will tend to be 3/4 or 7/8 bred, smaller cows will tend to be crossbred. All reserch has show that crossbred cows due to hybrid vigor will tend to be more fertile than near purebred cows. These smaller cows crossbred cows have also been show to have heavier calves at weaning mainly due to producing more milk.

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Bigger cows will tend to be 3/4 or 7/8 bred, smaller cows will tend to be crossbred. All reserch has show that crossbred cows due to hybrid vigor will tend to be more fertile than near purebred cows. These smaller cows crossbred cows have also been show to have heavier calves at weaning mainly due to producing more milk.

U telling me that a sim x lim x ch cow is going to be small. More crossbred than lm x fr.

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Bigger cows will tend to be 3/4 or 7/8 bred, smaller cows will tend to be crossbred. All reserch has show that crossbred cows due to hybrid vigor will tend to be more fertile than near purebred cows. These smaller cows crossbred cows have also been show to have heavier calves at weaning mainly due to producing more milk.

If a cow is producing more milk she needs more energy so shes eating more.any of the limx fr cows herr produce lots of milk, lose condition from producing all that milk and are harder to get in calf as a result imo. Also, had 1 lim x fr 2nd calver this year, she is last cow to calf, is thin while rest of cows are in good condition.

Good silage or grass, a kilo or two of barley, lots of minerals and an easy enough calving and youll find that most beef cows will be in and around the 365 days.

Bass Reeves

charolais0153 wrote: »

U telling me that a sim x lim x ch cow is going to be small. More crossbred than lm x fr.

No I am not, what I am saying in general lads that have big cows are breeding them pure or near pure. They do not tend to cross breed. Some do but in general most do not. So most 800kg cows are near pure bred. That is the reality this mostly to do with colour. Weanlings tend to sell by colour to a certain extent.

This is why breeding LM or CH to black whitehead or Angus cows tend not to sell at the premium that a golden or white charley and Red LM will sell at. For instance whitehead LM are not popular for export especially the black whitehead LM but these are often easier cattle to finish than there pure bred brethern.

You are trying to throw curve balls I am just giving you an opinion of the way other factors can impact on profitability.