Armed shotgun? (SPE 12) Turkish

Jamky

Got around to getting my license, doing the handling course this weekend but I'm torn with what to get.
Definitely want an over under, budget was €550ish but would stretch for the right gun. Looked at a few the other week and I was shown an Armed shotgun, brand new with 5 chokes and 2 years warranty for €550. Bang on the budget and very tempting for the kit and price but I can only find very small mentions of it here and elsewhere with VERY mixed reviews. I know older Turkish guns were considered troublesome but has their quality improved lately? The gun fit me very well. (Cant post links because I'm a new user but on the Armed website its the O/U with a black action: SPE 12 is the model)
Any owners or previous owners on boards want to chip on on their quality or reliability?
Gun will only be used maybe once a fortnight for clays and crows so I wouldn't be abusing it.

gunny123

Buy a used beretta, miroku, browning or lanber or something like that. If you hunt along the used gun racks in some of the larger dealers, you will find something.

Jamky

Handled a Bettinsoli Diamond too, also fit very nice, €100 more, barrels weren't overly heavy but I thought it fell open a bit too freely when I touched the lever. Is this a sign of its use or are the Bettinsoli's just like that?
There was a few under the €500 mark but the stocks were quite rough and fixed chokes. I'd rather have the diversity of a multi choke than be stuck with fixed choke.

Uinseann_16

There is nothing wrong with turkish guns ATA is another turk shotgun you might want to look at i personally would much rather have a new turkish shotgun than a used beretta, miroku, browning or lanber that could have gotton dogs abuse by a previous owner
My father has had an ATA for years and its never refused to cycle anything

Jamky

€550 isn't a huge investment to start with, I know for a bit more I can get a proven brand second hand but then there's the unknown history of the second hand gun that doesn't appeal to me.
At least from new I can be sure of he guns history and care it will receive. Especially with a 2 year warranty. Put it through its paces for a few months and see how it holds up?

Uinseann_16

If you arnt planning on keeping it for long it may be better to buy a second hand shotgun you will lose less money when it comes to trading again for a more expensive gun

rsole1

Jamky wrote: »

Got around to getting my license, doing the handling course this weekend but I'm torn with what to get.
Definitely want an over under, budget was €550ish but would stretch for the right gun. Looked at a few the other week and I was shown an Armed shotgun, brand new with 5 chokes and 2 years warranty for €550. Bang on the budget and very tempting for the kit and price but I can only find very small mentions of it here and elsewhere with VERY mixed reviews. I know older Turkish guns were considered troublesome but has their quality improved lately? The gun fit me very well. (Cant post links because I'm a new user but on the Armed website its the O/U with a black action: SPE 12 is the model)
Any owners or previous owners on boards want to chip on on their quality or reliability?
Gun will only be used maybe once a fortnight for clays and crows so I wouldn't be abusing it.

I had an Armed 20 bore, not the best, kept falling in half, got rid of. They are hard to sell secondhand and trade in you'll be lucky to get 200 yoyos for it.

Jamky

I'd like to keep it for several years, its price and kit it comes with is what appeals to me most, maybe a cheap way to test the waters and see if I'll keep up with the sport? I don't mind its resale value, if its still functioning properly and I feel like upgrading there's plenty of family that'd be happy to take it from me.

How long ago had you the 20 bore? The dealer told me early guns wore out but the ones hes sold in the last 4 years haven't come back yet. Maybe their quality has improved over the years or they're using better materials?

Walter Mittys Brother

Avoid anything Turkish. As said above buy secondhand "known" quality.

rsole1

Jamky wrote: »

I'd like to keep it for several years, its price and kit it comes with is what appeals to me most, maybe a cheap way to test the waters and see if I'll keep up with the sport? I don't mind its resale value, if its still functioning properly and I feel like upgrading there's plenty of family that'd be happy to take it from me.

How long ago had you the 20 bore? The dealer told me early guns wore out but the ones hes sold in the last 4 years haven't come back yet. Maybe their quality has improved over the years or they're using better materials?

4-5 years ago. It wasn't worn out it was just poorly made. You'd get something better secondhand for 500 or 600 yoyos,

Grizzly 45

Thread 2010 to 2012 on the same topic https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055899001:)
I notice the price hasn't increased or decreased for them.:)

Cass

I would check the date of manufacture. Some guns can sit for years in the dealers shop and be sold as the new version when in fact it's sitting there for say 6 years and is the old version.

The lads aren't wrong when they say you can get better for around the same price in known brand, second hand. Shotguns are a simple machine so while parts can fail it takes a serious amount of shooting to wear parts to that point.

If you're looking for second hand he first thing, and most important, is have someone with you that knows their stuff. Someone that knows about guns (doesn't have to be an expert) or at least more than you. If you don't have someone like that then go ask the stuff below and then come back here and ask opinions based on notes you took. Never buy if unsure or on the "spur of the moment". The gun will always be there or another wil appear so don't feel rushed to make a decision.

When buying i always look for the following:

1. Overall condition.
2. Marks, dents, scratches.
3. Dirty action/chamber
4. Dirty barrel/bore
5. Rust on any metal parts
6. Greater wear marks on grips/forend
7. How it opens/closes (tight/loose)

Any of the above points can show a high usage and lack of maintenance, but point number 7 can be misleading. A top quality gun can be loose but still in great condition. A tight gun doesn't always mean low usage, especially with cheaper guns as the machining may not be up to spec and the tightness is as a result of poor fitting rather than lack of use. Any lad that presents a dirty or poorly maintained firearm doesn't care for his firearm and as such i'd be less interested. Not to say i'd disregard the firearm as a good cleaning has made a "m'eh" gun into a "that'll do" firearm, but it'd be a cause for concern as to how it was looked after by the previous owner it and also a bargaining chip to argue the price.

Next thing i do is ask questions. Such as:

• Round count. (Important for some caliber, but not for others.)
• When it was bought
• When was it made
• Was it new or second, third, fourth, etc. hand bought
• Cleaning regime
• Type of shooting (rough shooting, open fields. in the rain, only in good weather, etc.)
• Any problems that were fixed or need fixing
• For any work done, who carried it out (competent gunsmith or lad from "down the road")

With a deal some of this might not be available. Why i don't know because i often thought if i was a firearm dealer i take a detailed history of each gun i take in and present it to any potential buyer. not a guarantee, but better than the usual "sure i don't know, it is what it is" answer i've gotten more times than i care to remember.

Now if you have your heart fixed on the Armed one, then perhaps it might be the one to go for. As was said above Turkish guns have a bad rep and its not always deserved, but like Skoda before VW bought them out the stigma was still on the brand for some time and in cases, not without merit. My mate bought a Kral and it broke his heart. He got it replaced by another one, and it too had its fair share of problems. Small ones, but each time he lost weeks waiting on repairs. I've heard other lads with Kral or similar Turkish guns and they've shot them for years without a bother.

The most important part of buying a shotgun, regardless of brand, budget, etc. is FIT. The gun must fit you. Any dealer worth his salt will be able to tell if it fits, and it's why i say bring someone with you just in case. If the gun does not fit you'll have trouble using it, and develop bad habits which will cause problems if you upgrade to a better firearm down the road that actually fits you.

Jamky

Cass thank you for the detailed reply, on my limited experience with shooting other peoples guns (uncles, father, brother) I've felt the strain of squashing my neck down to draw eye level with the bead because of short stocks, high combs etc. But I have to say honestly when I first shouldered the Armed it fit snugly into my shoulder and I didn't have to twist or raise/lower my head to aim clearly down the barrel, it just felt natural.
Maybe I'll chance the Turkish gun and be a guinea pig for the masses. If it turns out to be a gem I'll sing its praises and if its worthless I'll be sure to let all here know. But then again who knows what might be in stock when I go back, might have something i like more and of course it'll all depend how I shoot with it. Surely I can try before I buy?
Dealer is Lakeland in Mullingar (any bad words about them?) very patient with me and my thousand questions. Told him my budget, use for the gun and what type I'd prefer and he was happy to work with that. Didn't try to peddle stuff to me way over or below my budget until I asked him for the next up or below.

rsole1

Jamky wrote: »

Cass thank you for the detailed reply, on my limited experience with shooting other peoples guns (uncles, father, brother) I've felt the strain of squashing my neck down to draw eye level with the bead because of short stocks, high combs etc. But I have to say honestly when I first shouldered the Armed it fit snugly into my shoulder and I didn't have to twist or raise/lower my head to aim clearly down the barrel, it just felt natural.
Maybe I'll chance the Turkish gun and be a guinea pig for the masses. If it turns out to be a gem I'll sing its praises and if its worthless I'll be sure to let all here know. But then again who knows what might be in stock when I go back, might have something i like more and of course it'll all depend how I shoot with it. Surely I can try before I buy?
Dealer is Lakeland in Mullingar (any bad words about them?) very patient with me and my thousand questions. Told him my budget, use for the gun and what type I'd prefer and he was happy to work with that. Didn't try to peddle stuff to me way over or below my budget until I asked him for the next up or below.

Have a look in outdoorsports and Mulvihills in Ballymahon, they're Brothers and nice fellas.

Cass

Jamky wrote: »

But I have to say honestly when I first shouldered the Armed it fit snugly into my shoulder and I didn't have to twist or raise/lower my head to aim clearly down the barrel, it just felt natural.

If it fits, you like it, and its within your budget then go for it. You don't have to justify or impress anyone else as long as you're happy with it.

Jamky

Very true, I'll update this thread when I've decided on something, made a purchase and have a few boxes put through it!

cd07

I'd personally go for a silma rather than Turkish or indeed lanber

Grizzly 45

"Try b4 you buy"won't work with a new in box gun...First shot fired out of it makes it 2nd hand straightaway.:(.Unless you can find someone with one at a range and shoot it, you are going to be out of luck.But on the positive side, you did say the gun fits you well...That's already 90% of the battle with shotguns won.Fit is everything in shotguns.

useurowname

I'd have a good look elsewhere before I bought that gun. Lakelands have a great selection, but in the midlands you have many more dealers. If it was myself I'd look to pick up something second hand from a more established manufacturer..beretta, browning, miroku are ubiquitous and highly reliable, they'll also retain their value when you want to trade. lanber are excellent starter guns if you can find one. Seasons over now so take your time, a lot of guys will be trading in the off season so value and variety to be had.

meathstevie

I've had personal experience with a Turkish made Stoeger semi and based on that experience I'd rather go hunting with a sling shot than with another Turkish gun.

Within your budget or slightly over you will find the likes of a Browning or Beretta in fair to good condition. If you're willing to accept reasonable signs of use I'd take something of proven quality in fair to good condition with several thousands of cartridges through it sooner than something from a Turkish maker established in 2006.

A quality gun that's looked after can easily last for three generations of quite high levels of use with very reasonable repair expenses along the way. You'd be talking a firing pin here or there, tightening the action at some stage, an ejector or cocking spring to be replaced and so on.

deeksofdoom

I get my hair cut in the Turkish barbers. I trust them to cut my hair.... that’s about it.

useurowname

By all accounts lad, the gun is junk. Take it from some one who once shot ( well actually) with cheap a cheap Spainish O/U that broke his heart and lost his b*lix on when he traded. Buy cheap and pay dear. Try and get another couple of hundred together and but something decent cos that Armed doesn't sound like it's worth the license fee . Not if your serious about shooting.

Nekarsulm

Don't know if he still has it, but I traded in an AyA Yeoman O/U with the dealer in Monaghan town, and it'd be away ahead of the Turkish gun for quality. Cheaper too.

Lots of good guns out there, keep looking.

Jamky

Stuck a deposit on the Bettinsoli, it was a very similar fit as the Armed but I liked the weight better, stock was a tad long but there was a thick recoil pad on it, thinner one might make the difference. The Bettinsoli was a trade in against a rifle and whoever was trading it never brought the case or extra chokes so the dealers going to try get through to them while my application is going through. (left it into the Garda Station sunday night) So hopefully in the next 2-3 weeks I'll be on my way to collect it!

Cass

Good choice. One of the first shotguns i owned and while owned by Beretta does not mean top quality they have a better standard than others. You shouldn't be disappointed.

Let us know how you get on.

rsole1

Jamky wrote: »

Stuck a deposit on the Bettinsoli, it was a very similar fit as the Armed but I liked the weight better, stock was a tad long but there was a thick recoil pad on it, thinner one might make the difference. The Bettinsoli was a trade in against a rifle and whoever was trading it never brought the case or extra chokes so the dealers going to try get through to them while my application is going through. (left it into the Garda Station sunday night) So hopefully in the next 2-3 weeks I'll be on my way to collect it!

Good choice, you shouldn't be disappointed.

Grizzly 45

MUCH better choice.:) At least you can be pretty sure it wasn't made from a repurposed bit of an old car engine or the like.

meathstevie

I think you bought yourself a decent piece of kit. Don't worry too much about choke tubes, they're easy enough to come by at reasonable cost...

deeksofdoom

Jamky wrote: »

Stuck a deposit on the Bettinsoli, it was a very similar fit as the Armed but I liked the weight better, stock was a tad long but there was a thick recoil pad on it, thinner one might make the difference. The Bettinsoli was a trade in against a rifle and whoever was trading it never brought the case or extra chokes so the dealers going to try get through to them while my application is going through. (left it into the Garda Station sunday night) So hopefully in the next 2-3 weeks I'll be on my way to collect it!

Thank God.

Jamky

Have a slab of cartridges gone through it and I'm hitting much more than I'm missing. Only have a manual trap at the minute so I'm only getting to fire at one clay at a time (tried two in it but it throws them funny, one flies straight enough and the other tumbles no matter where i put them in the trap.)
Very happy with the Bettinsoli so far, in the end the dealer couldn't get the case or chokes (not sure he tried all that hard) but he had a root through a tub of parts/chokes/keys and found a few Bettinsoli chokes so I haven't a full set but I've a bit of a selection.
The more I've shot it the more dirt has loosened up and worked out of it, have taken the ejectors out of it and gave them a thorough scrub along with the action and a light oil and it feels even better than when I got it first. Still stiff but smoother if that makes sense.
Overall I'm delighted with it guys, feels great when someone else picks it up for a few shots and loves it. Father has a Gorsabel SxS for the last 15-20 years and has been forever threatening to change it but now hes seriously considering it!