'VW tests on monkeys showed old Ford pick-up was cleaner than new Beetle'

'VW tests on monkeys showed old Ford pick-up was cleaner than new Beetle'

While the result of this test is surprising, and incomprehensible given that we've supposedly much more environmentally better technology since, the really sickening part of this heading in my view is that some of the largest car companies on the planet - VW, BMW and Daimler - are testing the poison level of their vehicles on living, breathing monkeys. Was this sort of animal testing not outlawed in the EU decades ago? Well, maybe it was because VW's proxy carried these tests out in the United States. If it is banned here, can the EU firm VW not be prosecuted under EU law?

It happened in 2015. To put animals through essentially a form of gassing is so savage, so fúcking bereft of any feeling, that VW must be dragged through courts and the decision-makers involved publicly named and shamed for this. Sacking a "lobbyist", rather than the people who decided this, does not look like a good start.

There's no need for the retard-level Nazi jokes from the nether regions of British jingoism on this thread, but in 2018 it is utterly indefensible that animals are treated like this. Can scientists not invent something that is not living but which could anticipate human responses? Is it invented already, but too expensive to use so companies use the cheaper animal testing route?

Germany’s car industry financed - and then buried - a controversial report suggesting that emissions from a 2013 VW Beetle diesel were unhealthier than those from a 1999 Ford diesel pick-up.

A lobby group financed by VW, BMW, Daimler and major supplier Bosch commissioned US researchers in Albuquerque, New Mexico to carry out the experiment on 10 macque monkeys.

The 58 page final report, leaked to Germany’s Bild tabloid, details how, at 6.34am on May 4, 2015 the monkeys were isolated in glass cases and allowed watch cartoons while exhaust fumes were pumped in from a 1999 Ford pick-up and then a VW Beetle from 2013.

At 11.20, 1.40pm and 3.10pm the animals were removed, blood was taken and an endoscopy tube was inserted into their mouth or nose to examine the condition of bronchial tissue in their trachea.

Researchers at the Lovelace Institute noted that the animals were “stressed” because of the invasive examinations.

The experiment was designed to evaluate the “biological response” to diesel emissions in non-human primates. The industry lobby group EUGT, which commissioned and financed the research, hoped the results would show the modern German diesel caused less irritation in the animals.

However the opposite appears to have been the case. Although the bigger Ford was almost 20 years old, and the VW was using defeat software to reduce emissions by 40 times ordinary road levels, the Beetle seems to have caused greater harm to the animals.

“More inflammation was noted in the animals who breathed in the new diesel (emissions),” said Prof Hans-Peter Hutter, a specialist who studied the report for Bild. He said it was also possible the inflammation was caused by pre-test examinations.

The test cost the EUGT lobby group a reported $649,000 but, in an email to employees, a Lovelace researcher admitted “these aren’t the results you expected”.

In November, another US researcher said in a message he had “tried to take the sting out of the results”. The report was supposed to be published on December 31 2015 but a final version was sent on June 30 2017 to EUGT chief executive Michael Spallek and Stuart Johnson, head of VW’s environment office in the US.

By that stage the EUGT was being wound up and, according to Bild, the EUGT declined to pay a final installment of $71,857.

News of experiments on monkeys - and 2013 tests on human volunteers in Germany - has caused outrage among German politicians and forced apologies from VW, BMW and Daimler. On Tuesday, VW’s chief lobbyist was suspended as part of the investigation into the affair.

Prof Hutter told Bild the monkey experiment was “unbelievable and would probably not have been allowed in Europe”.

On Wednesday a VW spokesman declined to comment on claims the company wants to keep the monkey test results out of a class-action lawsuit it is fighting in the US.

But Mr Michael Melkerson, lawyer for VW drivers, has described the test documents as crucial for the case due to open on February 26th.

marcbrophy

If you want to see a visual representation of it, it's the first episode of Netflix new series of documentaries called Dirty Money.

Highly recommended watch

Edit to say it was a non-lethal study and the stuff in the show is a recreation, not the actual tests

kneemos

Thought the monkey's were killed or something.

We're all breathing this crap sure every day.

SEPT 23 1989

I was looking forward to some retard-level Nazi jokes from the nether regions of British jingoism:(

Guy:Incognito

Hehehhe " nether regions" hehhehe

Buford T. Justice XIX

Stands to reason, tbh. Newer cars are heavier, safer and full of power hungry features.

Older cars lose out on safety but probably in on engine efficiency due to having less features.

Cina

Guys, please refrain from retard-level Nazi jokes. We don't want them going any Führer than they have to.

AllGunsBlazing

VW are a right shady crowd tbh.

Guy:Incognito

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

VW are a right shady crowd tbh.

Don't be sucked in by the pro monkey lobby groups. A monkey would gas you as soon as look at you if given the chance.

McMurphy

verr sprong durgh technique


(I cant speak German)

Junkyard Tom

I think primates should be given some form of hominid rights akin to human rights to stop that type of thing. Diesel should be banned from being used in private cars in urban areas not unlike what they did with smoky coal.

cantdecide

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think primates should be given some form of hominid rights akin to human rights to stop that type of thing. Diesel should be banned from being used in private cars in urban areas not unlike what they did with smoky coal.

But but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but but


Shur isn't dieassel better for the environment, though, right? Shur that's why got cheap motor tax, right?

Cos of our environmental awesomeness in driving these green soot belchers?

*cough*

razorblunt

This is nothing new for German car manufacturers, sure Audi have been boasting about their methods for years. The four sprung duck technique has never done them any harm.

weldoninhio

Fuaranach wrote: »

'VW tests on monkeys showed old Ford pick-up was cleaner than new Beetle'

While the result of this test is surprising, and incomprehensible given that we've supposedly much more environmentally better technology since, the really sickening part of this heading in my view is that some of the largest car companies on the planet - VW, BMW and Daimler - are testing the poison level of their vehicles on living, breathing monkeys. Was this sort of animal testing not outlawed in the EU decades ago? Well, maybe it was because VW's proxy carried these tests out in the United States. If it is banned here, can the EU firm VW not be prosecuted under EU law?

It happened in 2015. To put animals through essentially a form of gassing is so savage, so fúcking bereft of any feeling, that VW must be dragged through courts and the decision-makers involved publicly named and shamed for this. Sacking a "lobbyist", rather than the people who decided this, does not look like a good start.

There's no need for the retard-level Nazi jokes from the nether regions of British jingoism on this thread, but in 2018 it is utterly indefensible that animals are treated like this. Can scientists not invent something that is not living but which could anticipate human responses? Is it invented already, but too expensive to use so companies use the cheaper animal testing route?

If you think that bad, I've heard McDonalds use cows for meat!!!

Huexotzingo

Were the monkeys told they were going for a shower first?:cool:

I'll get my coat.

Junkyard Tom

cantdecide wrote: »

Shur isn't dieassel better for the environment, though, right? Shur that's why got cheap motor tax, right?

Thankfully they're starting to do real-world emissions tests on cars instead of buying the bull**** figures the car manufactures release. I'd say taxes on diesels and small CC turbo petrol engines will be increasing in the next few years.

mad muffin

They showed them cartoons. How bad could it be?

Wheres Me Jumper?

"VolksWagen - Tested on monkeys, driven by muppets"

micks_address

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

"VolksWagen - Tested on monkeys, driven by muppets"

Not just monkeys

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/german-car-giants-funded-exhaust-fume-tests-on-humans-in-2013-1.3372411?mode=amp

Wheres Me Jumper?

micks_address wrote: »

Not just monkeys

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/german-car-giants-funded-exhaust-fume-tests-on-humans-in-2013-1.3372411?mode=amp

at least the monkeys got a steady supply of bananas.:eek:

Here we go

I'm prob going to be slatterd for this but if there is no other way then to use animals I'm cool with it of course I'd rather animals where not hurt if there was other ways that ment animals didn't get hurt great but ya I'd happily see any animal tested on if I taught it might help humans in some way not for purfumes or non important things. Sorry if I'm a monster I really do like animals and I'm sure I wouldn't ha e the heart to do it my self to them

Nekarsulm

Well the drive to lower emissions paradoxically often involves burning more fuel, and in some cases involves injecting urea ( piss, basically) into the system.
So the results are unsurprising.

kona

I see they are carrying on their historical traditions.

wexie

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Thankfully they're starting to do real-world emissions tests on cars instead of buying the bull**** figures the car manufactures release. I'd say taxes on diesels and small CC turbo petrol engines will be increasing in the next few years.

Very interesting article here :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust

Turns out there are only very few newer cars where the manufacturer stated emissions are even close to (or the same) as the real world driving emissions. In some cases we're talking 10 or more times worse than the lab tests.

DuMorph

Fuaranach wrote: »

'VW tests on monkeys showed old Ford pick-up was cleaner than new Beetle'

While the result of this test is surprising, and incomprehensible given that we've supposedly much more environmentally better technology since, the really sickening part of this heading in my view is that some of the largest car companies on the planet - VW, BMW and Daimler - are testing the poison level of their vehicles on living, breathing monkeys. Was this sort of animal testing not outlawed in the EU decades ago? Well, maybe it was because VW's proxy carried these tests out in the United States. If it is banned here, can the EU firm VW not be prosecuted under EU law?

It happened in 2015. To put animals through essentially a form of gassing is so savage, so fúcking bereft of any feeling, that VW must be dragged through courts and the decision-makers involved publicly named and shamed for this. Sacking a "lobbyist", rather than the people who decided this, does not look like a good start.

There's no need for the retard-level Nazi jokes from the nether regions of British jingoism on this thread, but in 2018 it is utterly indefensible that animals are treated like this. Can scientists not invent something that is not living but which could anticipate human responses? Is it invented already, but too expensive to use so companies use the cheaper animal testing route?

The Lovelace Institute involved in invasive oral examinations.......

DuMorph

I'll get my coat.

Atoms for Peace

Thanks to the green party the roads here are now packed with cancer spewing monkey killing death machines.

andekwarhola

Cina wrote: »

Guys, please refrain from retard-level Nazi jokes. We don't want them going any Führer than they have to.

Don't make Führernach angry.

Junkyard Tom

wexie wrote: »

Very interesting article here :

What would also be interesting, and even more complex, would be a pollution rating for construction and delivery of a vehicle. Surely the most eco-friendly way to own a car is by keeping it on the road for as long as possible instead of them becoming economic write-offs due to high insurance and motor tax rates?

wexie

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

What would also be interesting, and even more complex, would be a pollution rating for construction and delivery of a vehicle.

And then add it to the expected pollution output over the lifetime of the vehicle, including the pollution created when the vehicle is disposed of/broken/recycled.

I have a sneaky suspicion if that were to happen all of a sudden EV's would look a lot less attractive from an environmental point of view compared to vehicles already on the road....