Deposit non-refundable?

never_mind · 30-01-2018 3:24pm #1

Hi all

I put a holding charge (500 euro) on a car at local VW dealership. Brother in law has decided to sell me his (much younger and much better) car and I would save substantially.

VW tell me the holding deposit is non-refundable and I was told this... However, I was under the impression that it was refundable but they are saying they only said that this would happen if I was rejected for HP finance... Which I wasn't. I am bulling... I was fairly sure they meant at any point.

Any idea how I should proceed? Or is this a lost cause?

wpd · 30-01-2018 3:26pm

complain to simi

xl500 · 30-01-2018 3:30pm

Again Typical Irish main Dealers If they had any sense they would treat their Customers better

That 500 to them is pittance but they will maybe lose custom as you will tell friends and family etc

If they are on Twitter a negative tweet can work wonders Also as above SIMI and contact VW Ireland

Ask them to show you where it states non refundable

Dont Give up

biko · 30-01-2018 3:32pm

“If a consumer makes an offer to purchase an item, which is accepted by the seller and the consumer then pays a sum of money they have both then formed a potentially legally binding contract – for both sides.
In the event of a change of heart, as in this case, the seller can refuse to return the deposit.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/can-they-keep-my-deposit-1.642365

xl500 · 30-01-2018 3:37pm

biko wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/can-they-keep-my-deposit-1.642365

Operative word here is Potentially It would come down to what is considered Reasonable behaviour but a Lesson Learned never Give a Large Deposit for anything and as I said they may be technically within the Law but from a Custom Point of View crazy

never_mind · 30-01-2018 3:48pm

Definitely lesson learned. I have asked them could they please reconsider before I take other actions and see if that does anything!!

biko · 30-01-2018 3:54pm

Maybe settle for a portion back rather than the whole thing.

Put yourself in the seller's seat. A customer gives you a deposit and you hold the car so no-one else can buy it.
Then the customer wants all their money back for no other reason than that they found another car.
You now have to put car back onto the market again with what that entails.
It defeats the purpose of a deposit.

never_mind · 30-01-2018 3:56pm

biko wrote: »

Maybe settle for a portion back rather than the whole thing.

Put yourself in the seller's seat. A customer gives you a deposit and you hold the car so no-one else can buy it.
Then the customer wants all their money back for no other reason than that they found another car.
It defeats the purpose of a deposit.

I told them that I was sorry for the inconvenience and that I truly can't afford to let it go... I was nice in my email and told them I would leave a good review for them on FB if the matter was resolved. I'll see what they say!

ForestFire · 30-01-2018 3:56pm

Also how long in the deposit down, How long have they been holding this car for you, and effectively taken off the market to new buyers?

A few days? or weeks?

never_mind · 30-01-2018 3:57pm

ForestFire wrote: »

Also how long in the deposit down, How long have they been holding this car for you, and effectively taken off the market to new buyers?

A few days? or weeks?

Since last Friday at 4PM and they were closed on Sunday so it's only been 2 business days max.

DaveyDave · 30-01-2018 4:05pm

€500 would be a lot for a good review on Facebook. Judging from Google all the Dublin VW dealers I've seen have a decent rating so they don't seem to need it. You understood it's non-refundable but expected it to be refunded? Did you not sign some sort of paperwork saying it's non-refundable?

I understand you can't afford to be down €500, it's a lot of change for anyone really, but it's not their problem you want to pull out for finding a car elsewhere unfortunately.

never_mind · 30-01-2018 4:09pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

€500 would be a lot for a good review on Facebook. Judging from Google all the Dublin VW dealers I've seen have a decent rating so they don't seem to need it. You understood it's non-refundable but expected it to be refunded? Did you not sign some sort of paperwork saying it's non-refundable?

I understand you can't afford to be down €500, it's a lot of change for anyone really, but it's not their problem you want to pull out for finding a car elsewhere unfortunately.

The finance guy said the deposit was refundable should anything happen but didn't clarify so I thought at the time (in passing) that this would be all-encompassing. However, I was told today it was only in the situation that I was declined financing from VW.

I looked at their FB and they seem to need a few good one stars!!!

biko · 30-01-2018 4:16pm

Good luck with it any way. Hopefully you'll get something back.

never_mind · 30-01-2018 4:19pm

biko wrote: »

Good luck with it any way. Hopefully you'll get something back.

I won't hold my breath but I will try!

irelandrover · 30-01-2018 4:21pm

I'm genuinely curious what you think is the point of a deposit if you can get it back? Why would teh company bother taking a deposit if you can just get it back for any reason.

never_mind · 30-01-2018 4:25pm

irelandrover wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious what you think is the point of a deposit if you can get it back? Why would teh company bother taking a deposit if you can just get it back for any reason.

Have you read my explanations above or does leaving unhelpful patronizing remarks on boards.ie give you an ego boost you don't get in real life?

wexie · 30-01-2018 4:25pm

never_mind wrote: »

Hi all

I put a holding charge (500 euro) on a car at local VW dealership. Brother in law has decided to sell me his (much younger and much better) car and I would save substantially.

While I don't think it's great business practice from the Dealer as already pointed out and I certainly think it's worthwhile firing off a tweet or something.

But, you're still ending up with a newer and better car....for less money?
You haven't actually lost anything cause if the other car hadn't come along you'd have ended up spending more for a lesser car....

All about perspective young grasshopper

never_mind · 30-01-2018 4:27pm

wexie wrote: »

While I don't think it's great business practice from the Dealer as already pointed out and I certainly think it's worthwhile firing off a tweet or something.

But, you're still ending up with a newer and better car....for less money?
You haven't actually lost anything cause if the other car hadn't come along you'd have ended up spending more for a lesser car....

All about perspective young grasshopper

I'll see if the dealer comes back after my passionate email that tempted to tug on heart strings!!

It not, you are right... it is all about perspective!

wexie · 30-01-2018 4:32pm

never_mind wrote: »

I'll see if the dealer comes back after my passionate email that tempted to tug on heart strings!!

It not, you are right... it is all about perspective!

If you do get (some of) the deposit back I'd recommend going in with decent bottle of something or other (unless you never intend to have any business dealings with them)

never_mind · 30-01-2018 4:33pm

wexie wrote: »

If you do get (some of) the deposit back I'd recommend going in with decent bottle of something or other (unless you never intend to have any business dealings with them)

Nice idea! Will do and in the email I asked for the manager's email address so I could send on my compliments for the service I received so far.

Del2005 · 30-01-2018 4:37pm

What would be your reaction if instead of you saying I don't want the car as I got one cheaper and better the dealer said they got a better offer and sold it? I'd hazard a guess that you would say that the contract you signed is binding, why wouldn't it be binding on you?

never_mind · 30-01-2018 4:39pm

Del2005 wrote: »

What would be your reaction if instead of you saying I don't want the car as I got one cheaper and better the dealer said they got a better offer and sold it? I'd hazard a guess that you would say that the contract you signed is binding, why wouldn't it be binding on you?

Fair enough but this wasn't communicated very well. I think they saw a young fella coming and jumped tbh.

the_pen_turner · 30-01-2018 4:45pm

I don't get where you think that deposit s are refundable. By definition they are non refundable. It's only for houses where they have some sort of exception.

The dealer is 100 percent right to not refund.
Why should they. It would defeat the purpose of the deposit.

bazz26 · 30-01-2018 4:46pm

OP, was this car a factory order with a fair few extras and already built/at the dealers or in the process of being built? Normally if the order was cancelled before the order was in the factory being built and the dealer was not out of pocket they would normally give most if not all the deposit back in most cases as a measure of goodwill towards you coming back to them in the future. Or is it a case of VW Bank through a PCP deal rather than the dealer who are exercising their right not to give the deposit back?

irelandrover · 30-01-2018 4:47pm

never_mind wrote: »

Have you read my explanations above or does leaving unhelpful patronizing remarks on boards.ie give you an ego boost you don't get in real life?

I read your explanations. You thought the deposit was non-binding and completely refundable.

I wasnt being patronising. I was asking what you thought was the point of you paying a deposit, and the dealer dealing with the hassle of storing the cash/ dealing with bank transfers, if you could get it back with a change of mind. Why not just take the full payment when you actually buy the car.

never_mind · 30-01-2018 4:58pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I don't get where you think that deposit s are refundable. By definition they are non refundable. It's only for houses where they have some sort of exception.

The dealer is 100 percent right to not refund.
Why should they. It would defeat the purpose of the deposit.

OK, lads, I am not being cheeky here but can I just drive home the following point:

I was told that the deposit was refundable and the dealer did not put emphasis on the fact that the deposit was only refundable if finance was rejected by VW. I kept saying 'if anything happens do I get that back' but I didn't specify 'change of mind' and neither did they. There was a lack of communication from both parties... so can we stop asking me to define a deposit? I know what a deposit is but I feel the Ts+Cs of same weren't communicated to me that well - hence the thread.

Working class heroes · 30-01-2018 5:45pm

never_mind wrote: »

OK, lads, I am not being cheeky here but can I just drive home the following point:

I was told that the deposit was refundable and the dealer did not put emphasis on the fact that the deposit was only refundable if finance was rejected by VW. I kept saying 'if anything happens do I get that back' but I didn't specify 'change of mind' and neither did they. There was a lack of communication from both parties... so can we stop asking me to define a deposit? I know what a deposit is but I feel the Ts+Cs of same weren't communicated to me that well - hence the thread.

Tell them you would accept credit. Towards future servicing and repairs maybe?
That way you won’t be out of pocket and the dealer still gets €500 worth of business.

Del2005 · 30-01-2018 7:31pm

never_mind wrote: »

OK, lads, I am not being cheeky here but can I just drive home the following point:

I was told that the deposit was refundable and the dealer did not put emphasis on the fact that the deposit was only refundable if finance was rejected by VW. I kept saying 'if anything happens do I get that back' but I didn't specify 'change of mind' and neither did they. There was a lack of communication from both parties... so can we stop asking me to define a deposit? I know what a deposit is but I feel the Ts+Cs of same weren't communicated to me that well - hence the thread.

What was written on the documents that you got?

aaakev · 30-01-2018 9:32pm

You must have signed an order form of some description. It more than likely has something about deposits on it.

The only time you are entitled to get a deposit back is if the dealer doesnt hold up their end of the agreement. I tend to treat it on a case by case basis myself as i have had customers with genuine reasons for cancelling an order.

I think it would be wrong for you to leave a bad review or comment considering they have done nothing wrong and you are walking away from the agreement

never_mind · 31-01-2018 9:21am

aaakev wrote: »

You must have signed an order form of some description. It more than likely has something about deposits on it.

The only time you are entitled to get a deposit back is if the dealer doesnt hold up their end of the agreement. I tend to treat it on a case by case basis myself as i have had customers with genuine reasons for cancelling an order.

I think it would be wrong for you to leave a bad review or comment considering they have done nothing wrong and you are walking away from the agreement

Yep, had a think about it last night and it was on documentation. I apologised again for causing hassle and just going to put it down to a hard lesson!

never_mind · 31-01-2018 11:44am

Successs! He is going to use it as credit for services.

Toyotafanboi · 31-01-2018 12:29pm

Hopefully you've bought a VW :pac:

never_mind · 31-01-2018 12:56pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Hopefully you've bought a VW :pac:

I haven't but he knows that. They must do general service too

Wildcard7 · 31-01-2018 1:02pm

never_mind wrote: »

I looked at their FB and they seem to need a few good one stars!!!

Refundable deposits completely defeat the point of deposits. I understand your circumstances and considering they only held the car for you over the weekend it's a shame they don't give you the money back (although, you don't know how many people inquired for the car that very weekend, do you?). Clearly, completely turning a potential customer off for 500 quid is not a great choice. So if you want to leave a one star review to reflect the fact that you're not happy, fine. If you want to tell everyone about your bad experience, again, knock yourself out.

If on the other hand, as your post suggests, you plan to organise a bunch of friends that had no interaction with the dealer to leave one star reviews, that's just pathetic. It would also border on defamation with all the consequences that come with that.

never_mind · 31-01-2018 1:04pm

Wildcard7 wrote: »

If on the other hand, as your post suggests, you plan to organise a bunch of friends that had no interaction with the dealer to leave one star reviews, that's just pathetic. It would also border on defamation with all the consequences that come with that.

.... seriously? Did you even read the f'in topic?

Wildcard7 · 31-01-2018 1:12pm

never_mind wrote: »

.... seriously? Did you even read the f'in topic?

Yep, I sure did. Except the last few, I only read them now.

You mentioned threatening them before:
"I have asked them could they please reconsider before I take other actions and see if that does anything!! "

So I can only interpret "I looked at their FB and they seem to need a few good one stars!!!" in one way. I apologize if I understood that sentence the wrong way.

What way was your comment with the one star reviews intended, then? Did you think they could use a few one star reviews to reflect the wonderful level of service for which you wanted to send compliments to the manager, as mentioned in another post?

grogi · 31-01-2018 1:29pm

Wildcard7 wrote: »

Refundable deposits completely defeat the point of deposits.

No, they don't. There are different types of deposits, refundable and non-refundable.

Deposit is there to guarantee some kind of action, but it does not need to be closure of the deal. I might put the deposit over the phone to hold the car and that deposit would be returned when I show up to have a look. If I am not happy, I don't have to proceed.

When it comes to non-refundable deposits, there is a unbalance in Irish civil law - the vendor (a dealer) could potentially get out of the deal and just return the deposit, while the buyer couldn't. In other law systems, a vendor that fails to provide the service or goods returns the deposit doubled.

never_mind · 31-01-2018 1:32pm

Wildcard7 wrote: »

Yep, I sure did. Except the last few, I only read them now.

You mentioned threatening them before:
"I have asked them could they please reconsider before I take other actions and see if that does anything!! "

So I can only interpret "I looked at their FB and they seem to need a few good one stars!!!" in one way. I apologize if I understood that sentence the wrong way.

What way was your comment with the one star reviews intended, then? Did you think they could use a few one star reviews to reflect the wonderful level of service for which you wanted to send compliments to the manager, as mentioned in another post?

In the thread, others mentioned shooting off a twitter or a review on FB to make my case, if you read my comments thoroughly I said that I would be nice and such to the dealer and would leave good reviews and compliment the manager etc.

Other actions included going to FLAC to get advice. This is something I am no longer considering as I am happy with the outcome. I dealt with the entire thing with them in a polite and nice way and never considered getting my mates together to ruin a large-scale VW dealership... LOL

Wildcard7 · 31-01-2018 1:36pm

never_mind wrote: »

Other actions included going to FLAC to get advice. This is something I am no longer considering as I am happy with the outcome. I dealt with the entire thing with them in a polite and nice way and never considered getting my mates together to ruin a large-scale VW dealership... LOL

In that case I apologize and my comment was out of order.

However there ARE people who do that sort of thing and it's completely pathetic.

Toyotafanboi · 31-01-2018 2:31pm

grogi wrote: »

In other law systems, a vendor that fails to provide the service or goods returns the deposit doubled.

That would never really apply in this scenario though. Otherwise I would just quit my job and put a €1k deposit on a car every Monday and pull out of the deal every Thursday and collect my weeks earnings and never have to work again.

grogi · 31-01-2018 2:44pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That would never really apply in this scenario though. Otherwise I would just quit my job and put a €1k deposit on a car every Monday and pull out of the deal every Thursday and collect my weeks earnings and never have to work again.

If you pull out, fine - you loose your deposit. If the dealers pulls out, they pay double. That way both sides of the transactions stay committed.

Deposit non-refundable?

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